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Post by kiyoat on Mar 13, 2019 10:54:46 GMT -6
The attendance didn't break any records this year, but was another solid showing. I think the weather played a part for Saturday's numbers, and of course both SD teams losing on the men's side played a part.
Still one of the best-attended mid-major tournaments in the country. Will be interesting to compare with others, especially on the women's side...
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Post by kiyoat on Mar 13, 2019 11:19:07 GMT -6
Here's an idea for the SLT format. In the WCC they now do a format where the top-2 seeds get a bye until the semifinal, the 3&4 seeds get byes until the quarterfinal, etc. In this format, there is less chance of upsets, which gives some protection for top seeds. This would be particularly beneficial in mid-major conferences, where randomness can provide some very weak conference auto-bid teams. Just a thought. It wouldn't have made any difference on the women's side, but definitely on the men's. This year it would have protected the Jacks and Mavs, but in previous years it would have done the same for other teams. Like in 2017 USD and NDSU were the top seeds. Here is a Wiki page on this year's women's tourney: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_West_Coast_Conference_Women%27s_Basketball_TournamentFor 8 teams it would still take 4 days. Basically the same schedule, just a different bracket. You'd probably want to start it on Friday, though, and do the Championship on Monday. We should be doing that anyway IMO.
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Post by gorabbits on Mar 13, 2019 12:34:33 GMT -6
You'd probably want to start it on Friday, though, and do the Championship on Monday. We should be doing that anyway IMO. My understanding is that the timing of the tournament is driven by ESPN. With 32 conference tournaments finding a time for all of the championship games to be carried on ESPN's top networks is tough and no conference with a better date is going leave it to make room for us. PS: I wish your women good fortunate on selection day.
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Post by gopheryote on Mar 13, 2019 15:28:07 GMT -6
Thank you for providing me an opportunity for my annual SLT schedule rant. I don't know how much money SL makes from ESPN to carry the games - my guess is not much. But that money can't possibly be more than the total of what Fox Sports (or someone else) would pay PLUS more tickets sold if the championships were played on Sunday. How hard is this to grasp? Of course there weren't NDSU or Omaha fans Tuesday night IT WAS A FREAKING TUESDAY NIGHT, and they didn't know they were playing until late Monday night. This isn't a dig on SDSU fans or USD fans, but OF COURSE it benefits them - their fans can decide 1 hour before the game they want a ticket and then go. I saw a bunch of tweets lamenting how a big portion of the crowd Tuesday night was SDSU fans. OF COURSE IT WAS - you didn't need to take a short notice day off of work to attend, it doesn't somehow make you a better fan. A weekend semi-finals/finals at least gives the driving distance schools - two of which played in the SLT finals this year - a reasonable opportunity to hop in the car and make the game. Wouldn't an additional 1000 or 2000 tickets sold (easy if a SD school is playing) more than pay for being on ESPNU on a Tuesday night?
Thank you for ignoring my rant. See you again next year.
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Post by oldhare on Mar 13, 2019 15:42:52 GMT -6
Thank you for providing me an opportunity for my annual SLT schedule rant. I don't know how much money SL makes from ESPN to carry the games - my guess is not much. But that money can't possibly be more than the total of what Fox Sports (or someone else) would pay PLUS more tickets sold if the championships were played on Sunday. How hard is this to grasp? Of course there weren't NDSU or Omaha fans Tuesday night IT WAS A FREAKING TUESDAY NIGHT, and they didn't know they were playing until late Monday night. This isn't a dig on SDSU fans or USD fans, but OF COURSE it benefits them - their fans can decide 1 hour before the game they want a ticket and then go. I saw a bunch of tweets lamenting how a big portion of the crowd Tuesday night was SDSU fans. OF COURSE IT WAS - you didn't need to take a short notice day off of work to attend, it doesn't somehow make you a better fan. A weekend semi-finals/finals at least gives the driving distance schools - two of which played in the SLT finals this year - a reasonable opportunity to hop in the car and make the game. Wouldn't an additional 1000 or 2000 tickets sold (easy if a SD school is playing) more than pay for being on ESPNU on a Tuesday night? Thank you for ignoring my rant. See you again next year. This highlights the difference of those that attend the SLT rather than those that attend your favorite team's game(s). Since I have only missed a few games due to unforeseen events, I normally buy session passes to watch the SLT. The revenues that might be available from television is beyond what I know to comment. The rationale for the days the games are played should be available from the Summit offices. It is evident that most session tickets are not used for many games which could fuel a scalper market(Ticketmaster) for sale of tickets not used.
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Post by Yotes on Mar 13, 2019 17:22:05 GMT -6
Thank you for providing me an opportunity for my annual SLT schedule rant. I don't know how much money SL makes from ESPN to carry the games - my guess is not much. But that money can't possibly be more than the total of what Fox Sports (or someone else) would pay PLUS more tickets sold if the championships were played on Sunday. How hard is this to grasp? Of course there weren't NDSU or Omaha fans Tuesday night IT WAS A FREAKING TUESDAY NIGHT, and they didn't know they were playing until late Monday night. This isn't a dig on SDSU fans or USD fans, but OF COURSE it benefits them - their fans can decide 1 hour before the game they want a ticket and then go. I saw a bunch of tweets lamenting how a big portion of the crowd Tuesday night was SDSU fans. OF COURSE IT WAS - you didn't need to take a short notice day off of work to attend, it doesn't somehow make you a better fan. A weekend semi-finals/finals at least gives the driving distance schools - two of which played in the SLT finals this year - a reasonable opportunity to hop in the car and make the game. Wouldn't an additional 1000 or 2000 tickets sold (easy if a SD school is playing) more than pay for being on ESPNU on a Tuesday night? Thank you for ignoring my rant. See you again next year. I don't have the numbers, but I think you are underestimating the value of being on ESPN2 for the title game. Consider that ESPN has all but a select few conference title games. They're outbidding CBS/Fox to be the preeminent college basketball network (until the tourney starts). If it were so easy for Fox/CBS to pick up these types of games they would, but ESPN is probably paying significantly more. Not to mention the much greater exposure one gets from being on basic cable instead of a niche sports channel. Anyone with any info have an actual TV revenue number for us to play with? I know each NCAA game is worth $1.67 million, so here's hoping that NDSU gets the play-in game and wins it.
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Post by sd4life on Mar 13, 2019 17:33:10 GMT -6
Here's an idea for the SLT format. In the WCC they now do a format where the top-2 seeds get a bye until the semifinal, the 3&4 seeds get byes until the quarterfinal, etc. In this format, there is less chance of upsets, which gives some protection for top seeds. This would be particularly beneficial in mid-major conferences, where randomness can provide some very weak conference auto-bid teams. Just a thought. It wouldn't have made any difference on the women's side, but definitely on the men's. This year it would have protected the Jacks and Mavs, but in previous years it would have done the same for other teams. Like in 2017 USD and NDSU were the top seeds. Here is a Wiki page on this year's women's tourney: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_West_Coast_Conference_Women%27s_Basketball_TournamentFor 8 teams it would still take 4 days. Basically the same schedule, just a different bracket. You'd probably want to start it on Friday, though, and do the Championship on Monday. We should be doing that anyway IMO. So the #1 and #2 seeds only have to win 1 game to get into the championship game? I don't like that. Basically makes the tournament meaningless. I would be ok with the top 1 or 2 seeds getting a bye for the first round. I know that might cause some issues with the bracket though.
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Post by kiyoat on Mar 13, 2019 17:46:51 GMT -6
Here's an idea for the SLT format. In the WCC they now do a format where the top-2 seeds get a bye until the semifinal, the 3&4 seeds get byes until the quarterfinal, etc. In this format, there is less chance of upsets, which gives some protection for top seeds. This would be particularly beneficial in mid-major conferences, where randomness can provide some very weak conference auto-bid teams. Just a thought. It wouldn't have made any difference on the women's side, but definitely on the men's. This year it would have protected the Jacks and Mavs, but in previous years it would have done the same for other teams. Like in 2017 USD and NDSU were the top seeds. Here is a Wiki page on this year's women's tourney: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_West_Coast_Conference_Women%27s_Basketball_TournamentFor 8 teams it would still take 4 days. Basically the same schedule, just a different bracket. You'd probably want to start it on Friday, though, and do the Championship on Monday. We should be doing that anyway IMO. So the #1 and #2 seeds only have to win 1 game to get into the championship game? I don't like that. Basically makes the tournament meaningless. I would be ok with the top 1 or 2 seeds getting a bye for the first round. I know that might cause some issues with the bracket though. That’s a valid point, but consider the fact that the current arrangement somewhat renders the regular season meaningless. The SLT shouldn’t be the sole deciding factor, IMO. A first round BYE might be a good compromise. Many conferences feature byes.
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Post by Yotes on Mar 13, 2019 18:58:31 GMT -6
Here's an idea for the SLT format. In the WCC they now do a format where the top-2 seeds get a bye until the semifinal, the 3&4 seeds get byes until the quarterfinal, etc. In this format, there is less chance of upsets, which gives some protection for top seeds. This would be particularly beneficial in mid-major conferences, where randomness can provide some very weak conference auto-bid teams. Just a thought. It wouldn't have made any difference on the women's side, but definitely on the men's. This year it would have protected the Jacks and Mavs, but in previous years it would have done the same for other teams. Like in 2017 USD and NDSU were the top seeds. Here is a Wiki page on this year's women's tourney: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_West_Coast_Conference_Women%27s_Basketball_TournamentFor 8 teams it would still take 4 days. Basically the same schedule, just a different bracket. You'd probably want to start it on Friday, though, and do the Championship on Monday. We should be doing that anyway IMO. So the #1 and #2 seeds only have to win 1 game to get into the championship game? I don't like that. Basically makes the tournament meaningless. I would be ok with the top 1 or 2 seeds getting a bye for the first round. I know that might cause some issues with the bracket though. Seeds don't carry much weight now. Everyone has to win 3 games no matter what. There is effectively no difference between the 1/2 seeds and the 7/8 seeds.
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Post by gasser86 on Mar 13, 2019 19:13:47 GMT -6
It's hard to give teams a bye when you only have 8 teams. Why try and protect the top teams? It's March Madness and you better bring it every game. It adds to the excitement. They should move the tournament back to start on a Thursday and have the championships on Sunday.
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Post by Yotes on Mar 13, 2019 19:17:48 GMT -6
It's hard to give teams a bye when you only have 8 teams. Why try and protect the top teams? It's March Madness and you better bring it every game. It adds to the excitement. They should move the tournament back to start on a Thursday and have the championships on Sunday. What was the point of the past 16 games if they don't mean much? Also, the conference stands to make a lot more money if they send their best team and they win a game.
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Post by gasser86 on Mar 13, 2019 20:07:12 GMT -6
It's hard to give teams a bye when you only have 8 teams. Why try and protect the top teams? It's March Madness and you better bring it every game. It adds to the excitement. They should move the tournament back to start on a Thursday and have the championships on Sunday. What was the point of the past 16 games if they don't mean much? Also, the conference stands to make a lot more money if they send their best team and they win a game.I never said the previous 16 conference games don't mean anything. They mean a lot. You fight for the top seed so you can play the bottom seed in order to make it an easier road to the championship in the tournament. Another perk for fighting for the 1 or 2 is to get the day off on Sunday. But the beauty of March is the unpredictability between games and matchups. If I'm paying for a session pass I want the most bang for my buck and that translates to more games. Unless the Summit adds some more schools, I don't think byes are the way to go. So, the conference would make a lot more money if WIU were the perennial number one and routinely won a few games?
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Post by kiyoat on Mar 13, 2019 20:54:31 GMT -6
On the men’s side, winning in the NCAA, even just one game, is a big deal. The payout for the conference is for six years. Win another game within that six years, and double your payout. Win two and you triple it. Get multiple teams in, and you multiply the payout again.
So yeah, it behooves the Summit to send the team most likely to not be a 16-seed.
The WCC has a 10-team tournament, so it is 5 days. The 8-team version would be 4 days of two games each, exactly like we have now. Difference is we currently split round 1 into two days.
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Post by lakesbison on Mar 13, 2019 22:46:11 GMT -6
so you all been making money off NDSU's win in 2014 then... hmmm. You owe us!! haha
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Post by aldewitt on Mar 20, 2019 5:33:46 GMT -6
It’s a conference not the NDSU show. Nobody owes anything except the NCAA. They owe the Summit not NDSU. NDSU doesn’t payout a dime. It’s the conference that gives us all a chance. Without it we have nothing.
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