|
|
Post by kiyoat on Apr 4, 2017 13:24:14 GMT -6
I think that article in the Omaha paper is Shatel speculating more than anything based on rumor. The Horizon is a bus league and neither Omaha or Denver fall remotely within their footprint. As for the MVC, UNO doesn't bring a big enough fanbase even though it has an urban profile. The conference discovered that nugget when Loyola was added as a Creighton replacement and didn't exactly deliver the Chicago market. It would also up travel expenses for the Mavs quite a bit I would think.I agree with all of your points except the last one. The MVC has a pretty compact footprint, too. Just like the Horizon. More-so then the Summit. Omaha fits geographically in the MVC, but not in any other metric. Shatel is just spitballing, I think. |
|
|
|
Post by kiyoat on Apr 4, 2017 13:33:00 GMT -6
From what I have gathered in that article, it looks like the Summit may need to look into a weekly game (a la Horizon League with Friday Night ESPN games) on either CBSSportsNetwork, FS1, or ESPN. Featuring teams with names like IUPUI and IPFW is going to be a tough sell for the Summit. What casual fan is ever going to figure out those acronyms? Fort Wayne had a game on ESPN this year, but I think their appearance was happenstance. Fort Wayne no longer goes by IPFW, for exactly the reason you mention. It's bad for name-recognition. I think its only been a year since they made that change, so it hasn't caught on everywhere. They are technically just "Fort Wayne" now. Good move, IMO. As for IUPUI, The best move would be to go by "Indianapolis", but there's a small problem. There is already a private school called the University of Indianapolis, or UIndy. It's a small Division II school. Whatever they do, they need a re-branding. Too many call it "oo-ee poo-ee". Ridiculous. Actually their bigger problem is fan involvement. |
|
|
|
Post by gopheryote on Apr 4, 2017 13:47:15 GMT -6
My kids love it when IUPUI is on tv - they walk around saying 'ooo-eee pooo-eee'. Good stuff.
|
|
|
|
Post by Coyote Fan on Apr 4, 2017 18:58:45 GMT -6
It will be interesting to see what comes from all of this but there are going to be at least some dominoes falling if not several. This might be the perfect time to do a little re-evaluation and it starts right from the offices that Douple and Patty V work out of. You create one football/basketball/everything else conference and the other a basketball and everything else conference.
One conference is as follows and would really be the stronger of the two.
Illinois State
Southern Illinois
Northern Iowa
Missouri State
Indiana State
North Dakota
South Dakota
NDSU
SDSU
Western Illinois
That is a prefect conference and Drake would be in the discussion if they would eventually be willing to add scholarships for football, maybe on a time table. It's either play football or be out period. If Drake would be in I would keep it an even number and maybe try to convince Eastern Illinois to come over as well. I think all teams have a sense of belonging. The Dakota have a sense of togetherness as do all the Illinois schools. UNI get a nice combo of old and new with the old NCC schools rejoining them. Indiana State and Missouri State still stay in a strong conference and retain many old Valley ties. No private schools and no schools that are defined by letters or named after cities. I think this league would become like the old Valley in short time.
The "other" league
Loyola-Chicago
Bradley
Evansville
Drake (maybe)
Denver
Omaha
IPFW
IUPUI
The football playing conference is easily better than the current Valley is after losing Wichita State. This seems to me the simplest way to deal with this whole situation. The basketball only programs in the Valley seem to be what is holding that conference back anyway. The football playing conference basketball tourney could be setup on a rotating basis. Every other year the tourney is in either St. Louis or Sioux Falls. Seems like a nice compromise all around.
|
|
dave
Sophomore Member
Posts: 112
|
Post by dave on Apr 4, 2017 21:29:16 GMT -6
It will be interesting to see what comes from all of this but there are going to be at least some dominoes falling if not several. This might be the perfect time to do a little re-evaluation and it starts right from the offices that Douple and Patty V work out of. You create one football/basketball/everything else conference and the other a basketball and everything else conference. One conference is as follows and would really be the stronger of the two. Illinois State Southern Illinois Northern Iowa Missouri State Indiana State North Dakota South Dakota NDSU SDSU Western Illinois That is a prefect conference and Drake would be in the discussion if they would eventually be willing to add scholarships for football, maybe on a time table. It's either play football or be out period. If Drake would be in I would keep it an even number and maybe try to convince Eastern Illinois to come over as well. I think all teams have a sense of belonging. The Dakota have a sense of togetherness as do all the Illinois schools. UNI get a nice combo of old and new with the old NCC schools rejoining them. Indiana State and Missouri State still stay in a strong conference and retain many old Valley ties. No private schools and no schools that are defined by letters or named after cities. I think this league would become like the old Valley in short time. The "other" league Loyola-Chicago Bradley Evansville Drake (maybe) Denver Omaha IPFW IUPUI The football playing conference is easily better than the current Valley is after losing Wichita State. This seems to me the simplest way to deal with this whole situation. The basketball only programs in the Valley seem to be what is holding that conference back anyway. The football playing conference basketball tourney could be setup on a rotating basis. Every other year the tourney is in either St. Louis or Sioux Falls. Seems like a nice compromise all around. For once I agree with Coyote Fan 100%, this needs to happen, also the football schools need to let it be known that when there is a split between the Power Five and General Five at the FBS level this conference would want to move up to the G-5 level. The only thing I would change would be if Western Ill has no intentions of moving up or can't afford it have only 9 football schools and 1 basketball and other sports school. Nine is a nice number for football with 8 conference games, 1 FBS game, 1 lower level tune up game, and a home and away game with other non conference FCS schools for a 12 game schedule. |
|
dave
Sophomore Member
Posts: 112
|
Post by dave on Apr 4, 2017 21:40:10 GMT -6
Forgot to add in the post above if the conference tourney can't be held in Sioux Falls the four Dakota schools could have a holiday type tourney, with four other schools from outside this area, either over Christmas or Thanksgiving. A tourney similar to what the Pentagon now has over Thanksgiving weekend, and since the Denny won't be hosting the conference tournament you could have the holiday tournament there. Hopefully this would keep powers/donors in SF happy.
|
|
|
|
Post by goyotes24 on Apr 4, 2017 22:00:01 GMT -6
It will be interesting to see what comes from all of this but there are going to be at least some dominoes falling if not several. This might be the perfect time to do a little re-evaluation and it starts right from the offices that Douple and Patty V work out of. You create one football/basketball/everything else conference and the other a basketball and everything else conference. One conference is as follows and would really be the stronger of the two. Illinois State Southern Illinois Northern Iowa Missouri State Indiana State North Dakota South Dakota NDSU SDSU Western Illinois That is a prefect conference and Drake would be in the discussion if they would eventually be willing to add scholarships for football, maybe on a time table. It's either play football or be out period. If Drake would be in I would keep it an even number and maybe try to convince Eastern Illinois to come over as well. I think all teams have a sense of belonging. The Dakota have a sense of togetherness as do all the Illinois schools. UNI get a nice combo of old and new with the old NCC schools rejoining them. Indiana State and Missouri State still stay in a strong conference and retain many old Valley ties. No private schools and no schools that are defined by letters or named after cities. I think this league would become like the old Valley in short time. The "other" league Loyola-Chicago Bradley Evansville Drake (maybe) Denver Omaha IPFW IUPUI The football playing conference is easily better than the current Valley is after losing Wichita State. This seems to me the simplest way to deal with this whole situation. The basketball only programs in the Valley seem to be what is holding that conference back anyway. The football playing conference basketball tourney could be setup on a rotating basis. Every other year the tourney is in either St. Louis or Sioux Falls. Seems like a nice compromise all around. My older brother and I have had almost the exact same idea regarding conference realignment, even alternating conference tournament. However, I don't know if Sioux Falls would want to give up an annual conference tourney. It's a fun discussion, regardless. |
|
|
|
Post by Coyote Fan on Apr 4, 2017 22:53:10 GMT -6
I would say from a conference desirability stand point if it takes losing the tournament in Sioux Falls every other year to have that lineup of schools in the conference I take the trade off and I think a certain school 2 hours north of Vermillion would take that too. I do not think USD would disagree either. It's all about the overall good of the entire athletic department and that would be a desirable situation.
|
|
|
|
Post by kiyoat on Apr 5, 2017 7:47:40 GMT -6
I like the hypothetical conference you came up with, CF. In order for something like that to happen, though, you would have to form a completely new conference. Kicking out the weaker members from a conference would be problematic, so the football schools would have to form a completely new one, leaving the MVC to form into the weaker conference by adding the Summit "leftovers". The Summit and the MVFC might just have to close their doors in that scenario.
* edit: actually, I didn't realize that basically what you are proposing is for the MVFC to sponsor the non-football sports. I think that could work, but YSU wouldn't be excluded. would probably neccesitate a name-change too. Maybe go back to "Gateway"?
|
|
|
|
Post by Yote 53 on Apr 5, 2017 8:30:27 GMT -6
Sounds like a great idea to the Summit football playing schools but I'm sure it sounds horrible to the Valley football playing schools.
Illinois State
Southern Illinois
Northern Iowa
Missouri State
Indiana State
Those schools would view the proposed conference as a demotion, and it would be a demotion for them in basketball. The amount of money and resources Valley schools put into basketball far outpaces what Summit schools put in. Valley bottom feeder Drake almost stole our coach by offering him almost double what he made at USD. Freaking Drake. UNI pays their head coach an average salary of $900,000 per year. Summit schools have a long way to go before we get to that level of funding.
The only way that conference happens is if chaos begins to reign and realignment goes crazy. UNI and a few others start really feeling the budget crunch and look to scale back their basketball expenditures while the Summit increases theirs and we meet somewhere in the middle. I could make a case that it would be a fantastic idea for Valley schools to do this as it would save them money and they would probably still have the same amount of access to the NCAA Tournament as that proposed conference would be a 2-3 bid conference, right where the Valley is today, but much cheaper funding for the AD.
UNI would push to go to the MAC before any of that happened. No idea why as their football program is trending down and they can't afford to keep up with the Dakota schools and the resources we are putting into football. But that's what they think over there, that they are superior.
|
|
|
|
Post by kiyoat on Apr 5, 2017 8:57:53 GMT -6
I think the worst case scenario for USD is for the MVC to poach the XDSU schools. Even though the MVC would be better off taking them, I think they add Valpo, Belmont, or Oakland instead. If offered, I'm not sure which way the XDSU schools would go. I'm not sure how much they value the SLT in Sioux Falls, and playing the Dakota Schools vs upgrading conferences in BB. My gut says they would go.
Adding tiny private schools will further water down the MVC, and the Summit will only continue to get stronger and more regionally cohesive with the addition of UND. Over time I think UNI might change their tune about the Summit and see it as a legitimate option. They don't right now. I think that this is a likely scenario, and the best-case for USD.
|
|
|
|
Post by sdyotefan75 on Apr 5, 2017 10:49:00 GMT -6
I assume Oral Roberts would go in the other league?
|
|
|
|
Post by Yotes on Apr 5, 2017 11:12:58 GMT -6
Would the state legislatures even let their in state schools split again? Big difference between conference realignment and reclassification.
|
|
|
|
Post by Yote 53 on Apr 5, 2017 11:41:46 GMT -6
I think the worst case scenario for USD is for the MVC to poach the XDSU schools. Even though the MVC would be better off taking them, I think they add Valpo, Belmont, or Oakland instead. If offered, I'm not sure which way the XDSU schools would go. I'm not sure how much they value the SLT in Sioux Falls, and playing the Dakota Schools vs upgrading conferences in BB. My gut says they would go. Adding tiny private schools will further water down the MVC, and the Summit will only continue to get stronger and more regionally cohesive with the addition of UND. Over time I think UNI might change their tune about the Summit and see it as a legitimate option. They don't right now. I think that this is a likely scenario, and the best-case for USD. I don't know if they would go. Yes, the Valley would be a step up in prestige but not a huge step up, but it is a step up in costs. The Valley is a multi-bid league some years but is that worth the big increase in costs that comes with operating a program at that level? What is your ROI going to be? Would you be better off staying in what is a stable Summit and operating your program at the lower costs in this league? |
|
|
|
Post by Yotes on Apr 5, 2017 12:04:48 GMT -6
I think the worst case scenario for USD is for the MVC to poach the XDSU schools. Even though the MVC would be better off taking them, I think they add Valpo, Belmont, or Oakland instead. If offered, I'm not sure which way the XDSU schools would go. I'm not sure how much they value the SLT in Sioux Falls, and playing the Dakota Schools vs upgrading conferences in BB. My gut says they would go. Adding tiny private schools will further water down the MVC, and the Summit will only continue to get stronger and more regionally cohesive with the addition of UND. Over time I think UNI might change their tune about the Summit and see it as a legitimate option. They don't right now. I think that this is a likely scenario, and the best-case for USD. I don't know if they would go. Yes, the Valley would be a step up in prestige but not a huge step up, but it is a step up in costs. The Valley is a multi-bid league some years but is that worth the big increase in costs that comes with operating a program at that level? What is your ROI going to be? Would you be better off staying in what is a stable Summit and operating your program at the lower costs in this league? Not sure that is true in Creighton and Wichita State's absence. 2006 was the last time they had two teams in the tournament that weren't Creighton/Wichita. If 25-6 Illinois State couldn't get an at-large bid then I think the MVC is looking like they'll be a one-bid league nearly every year. |
|
