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Post by oldhare on Apr 6, 2017 17:00:46 GMT -6
SDSU will outgrow the Summit eventually, as will NDSU. If you actually read Sell's interview you will find that our athletic budget increased by $4 million year over year, 2016 v 2017. The budget continues to grow as ticket sales increase and corporate sponsorships increase along with private fundraising. We are down to 39% of our budget being subsidized. What percent is the USD subsidy? SDSU will not stay in the Summit just for the conference tournament. Plus, as Sell said so nicely. If the other schools (see USD) don't like to see that many SDSU fans in Sioux Falls, get off your ass and buy tickets. I actually don't care if the four Dakota schools stay together. I care if SDSU and NDSU stay together and I expect we will. The rest of your rants? None of the four Dakota schools are going to get looked at by the MVC this time around. If any do, it would be SDSU and NDSU alone. You really need to sit back and relax. The transition to being a quality D1 school is a long one. SDSU and NDSU are ahead of USD and UND because we started earlier, partnered and made a strong commitment from day one to be the best, wherever we are. USD seem to have finally gotten its act together, but it has taken a while. UND the same. In 5 years the local D1 landscape will likely look much different then today. We could be with the MVFC, MVC schools in an all sports conference or we could be in a conference with other, large state schools (think Montana, NMSU and UNC plus two or three MVFC schools). I highly doubt that in 5 years the four Dakota schools will be in the Summit, as the Summit looks today. There just is not enough commitment to quality and not enough schools committed to spending what it takes to be the best. We will leave those schools behind. It is only a matter of time. I want to start by saying I think all of this whining about tickets for The Summit is ridiculous. I have cautioned USD fans to get off their butts and support the Coyotes and get on this bandwagon for a long time. In my opinion, you can't not show up for games in Vermillion but complain when the games are in Sioux Falls. Get behind USD in all sports, get used to going to games, and it will fix itself. I'm sick of hearing about SDSU going first, but they did, and up till now have enjoyed the fruits of it. Stop whining about it, it makes us look bad. Jacksfan29, you make me laugh. You say you don't care about if the MVC, or by other conference for that matter takes all four Dakota schools, all you care about is SDSU goes with NDSU. I've got news for you...SDSU is not a brand. Like it or not, NDSU football is a brand, but you AREN'T. You went D1 when they did...end of conversation. You are the one that makes it sound like SDSU will go wherever NDSU goes. Guess what? NDSU does NOT need SDSU to move up. They have the brand, the population, and did have the money till now. But that may be drying up with the oil drop. Get over yourself. The fact of the matter is this years men's basketball team wasn't winning the first 2/3 rd of the season, and attendance was way down. Your arena, by comparison to ours and NDSU and UND sucks. You'll spend millions on it renovating it, but it will still suck. Just not as much as it does now. If your football team goes .500 ticket sales will plummet, because just like USD, you only get good crowds when you win. Try a home game on pheasant season opener. There will be more dead ringnecks than fans in the new stadium. And lastly, please don't go holier than now on your 39% subsidy point. Anyone in business knows what's happened to your public funding side of your jump into D1. Get over yourself...if NDSU moves on to a bigger league, and they maybe could, they sure as hell don't need you. The best opportunity for the Dakota schools is if the Missouri Valley stood to the plate and made it an all sports conference. But be careful what you ask for. Just don't act like all these leagues are just chomping at the bit to invite you. You are a mere pimple on their butt. You bring nothing to the table. No population, no airport...nothing. Unfortunately the same is true for USD. Lastly, you say SDSU won't stay in the Summit for the conference tournament? Do you realize or understand what the revenue stream for SDSU is from the tournament? The new conference would have to promise you the moon to entice you to jump. Your AD knows exact;y what that tournament means to sdsu's cofferes. It's a bunch. Stop pretending you're on equal footing with the Bison, because you're not even close. I think someone needs a Snickers!
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Post by Coyote Fan on Apr 6, 2017 17:50:10 GMT -6
For SDSU it is actually a better situation if all the Summit football schools go to the Missouri Valley all sports conference as a unit. If just the Dak States go then it destabilizes the Summit and that is not what the MVFC really wants. It also makes it more unlikely that Sioux Falls would continue to host the basketball conference tourney that contains the Jacks. So the smugness of SDSU would actually work against them. It would be better for both XDSU's to just take care of the multiple conference problems in one swoop by having all sports in one conference. Of course the Jacks could just join the big 10 as schools like Michigan and Ohio State are just chomping at the bit to add a school of SDSU's prestige to their conference. LOL :-)
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Post by yoteforever on Apr 6, 2017 19:49:23 GMT -6
I want to start by saying I think all of this whining about tickets for The Summit is ridiculous. I have cautioned USD fans to get off their butts and support the Coyotes and get on this bandwagon for a long time. In my opinion, you can't not show up for games in Vermillion but complain when the games are in Sioux Falls. Get behind USD in all sports, get used to going to games, and it will fix itself. I'm sick of hearing about SDSU going first, but they did, and up till now have enjoyed the fruits of it. Stop whining about it, it makes us look bad. Jacksfan29, you make me laugh. You say you don't care about if the MVC, or by other conference for that matter takes all four Dakota schools, all you care about is SDSU goes with NDSU. I've got news for you...SDSU is not a brand. Like it or not, NDSU football is a brand, but you AREN'T. You went D1 when they did...end of conversation. You are the one that makes it sound like SDSU will go wherever NDSU goes. Guess what? NDSU does NOT need SDSU to move up. They have the brand, the population, and did have the money till now. But that may be drying up with the oil drop. Get over yourself. The fact of the matter is this years men's basketball team wasn't winning the first 2/3 rd of the season, and attendance was way down. Your arena, by comparison to ours and NDSU and UND sucks. You'll spend millions on it renovating it, but it will still suck. Just not as much as it does now. If your football team goes .500 ticket sales will plummet, because just like USD, you only get good crowds when you win. Try a home game on pheasant season opener. There will be more dead ringnecks than fans in the new stadium. And lastly, please don't go holier than now on your 39% subsidy point. Anyone in business knows what's happened to your public funding side of your jump into D1. Get over yourself...if NDSU moves on to a bigger league, and they maybe could, they sure as hell don't need you. The best opportunity for the Dakota schools is if the Missouri Valley stood to the plate and made it an all sports conference. But be careful what you ask for. Just don't act like all these leagues are just chomping at the bit to invite you. You are a mere pimple on their butt. You bring nothing to the table. No population, no airport...nothing. Unfortunately the same is true for USD. Lastly, you say SDSU won't stay in the Summit for the conference tournament? Do you realize or understand what the revenue stream for SDSU is from the tournament? The new conference would have to promise you the moon to entice you to jump. Your AD knows exact;y what that tournament means to sdsu's cofferes. It's a bunch. Stop pretending you're on equal footing with the Bison, because you're not even close. I think someone needs a Snickers! LOL
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Post by yoteforever on Apr 6, 2017 19:49:27 GMT -6
I want to start by saying I think all of this whining about tickets for The Summit is ridiculous. I have cautioned USD fans to get off their butts and support the Coyotes and get on this bandwagon for a long time. In my opinion, you can't not show up for games in Vermillion but complain when the games are in Sioux Falls. Get behind USD in all sports, get used to going to games, and it will fix itself. I'm sick of hearing about SDSU going first, but they did, and up till now have enjoyed the fruits of it. Stop whining about it, it makes us look bad. Jacksfan29, you make me laugh. You say you don't care about if the MVC, or by other conference for that matter takes all four Dakota schools, all you care about is SDSU goes with NDSU. I've got news for you...SDSU is not a brand. Like it or not, NDSU football is a brand, but you AREN'T. You went D1 when they did...end of conversation. You are the one that makes it sound like SDSU will go wherever NDSU goes. Guess what? NDSU does NOT need SDSU to move up. They have the brand, the population, and did have the money till now. But that may be drying up with the oil drop. Get over yourself. The fact of the matter is this years men's basketball team wasn't winning the first 2/3 rd of the season, and attendance was way down. Your arena, by comparison to ours and NDSU and UND sucks. You'll spend millions on it renovating it, but it will still suck. Just not as much as it does now. If your football team goes .500 ticket sales will plummet, because just like USD, you only get good crowds when you win. Try a home game on pheasant season opener. There will be more dead ringnecks than fans in the new stadium. And lastly, please don't go holier than now on your 39% subsidy point. Anyone in business knows what's happened to your public funding side of your jump into D1. Get over yourself...if NDSU moves on to a bigger league, and they maybe could, they sure as hell don't need you. The best opportunity for the Dakota schools is if the Missouri Valley stood to the plate and made it an all sports conference. But be careful what you ask for. Just don't act like all these leagues are just chomping at the bit to invite you. You are a mere pimple on their butt. You bring nothing to the table. No population, no airport...nothing. Unfortunately the same is true for USD. Lastly, you say SDSU won't stay in the Summit for the conference tournament? Do you realize or understand what the revenue stream for SDSU is from the tournament? The new conference would have to promise you the moon to entice you to jump. Your AD knows exact;y what that tournament means to sdsu's cofferes. It's a bunch. Stop pretending you're on equal footing with the Bison, because you're not even close. I think someone needs a Snickers! LOL
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dave
Sophomore Member
Posts: 112
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Post by dave on Apr 6, 2017 20:46:30 GMT -6
For SDSU it is actually a better situation if all the Summit football schools go to the Missouri Valley all sports conference as a unit. If just the Dak States go then it destabilizes the Summit and that is not what the MVFC really wants. It also makes it more unlikely that Sioux Falls would continue to host the basketball conference tourney that contains the Jacks. So the smugness of SDSU would actually work against them. It would be better for both XDSU's to just take care of the multiple conference problems in one swoop by having all sports in one conference. Of course the Jacks could just join the big 12 as schools like Texas and Oklahoma are just chomping at the bit to add a school of SDSU's prestige to their conference. LOL :-) FIFY, Since we're already affiliate members of the Big 12 in wrestling I think membership in that conference is more likely.(jk)
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Post by Yotes on Apr 6, 2017 21:17:31 GMT -6
No Dakota is leaving their conference in the next 5 years. Just no way.
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Post by Coyote Fan on Apr 6, 2017 22:54:39 GMT -6
For SDSU it is actually a better situation if all the Summit football schools go to the Missouri Valley all sports conference as a unit. If just the Dak States go then it destabilizes the Summit and that is not what the MVFC really wants. It also makes it more unlikely that Sioux Falls would continue to host the basketball conference tourney that contains the Jacks. So the smugness of SDSU would actually work against them. It would be better for both XDSU's to just take care of the multiple conference problems in one swoop by having all sports in one conference. Of course the Jacks could just join the big 12 as schools like Texas and Oklahoma are just chomping at the bit to add a school of SDSU's prestige to their conference. LOL :-) FIFY, Since we're already affiliate members of the Big 12 in wrestling I think membership in that conference is more likely.(jk) No one cares about Wrestling so that doesn't even count. That would be like the SDSU equestrian team joining the FCS and the GPL conference for their team. FCS stands for Farming Championship Subdivision and GPL Grazing Pasture League. Dave please explain to me the process of offering horses scholarships. Do offers get sent out by State College and do those horses sign letters of intent. edit: Ooop it just occurred to me the recruiting process is those auctions that are held at Frost Arena. It's the animals that are actually selling themselves and their skills. Once they are giving the Jackrabbit blessing they go to those barns on campus and live out their collegiate life there and get their education as well.
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Post by kiyoat on Apr 7, 2017 7:25:40 GMT -6
So back on topic: I'd love to do a comparison of basketball budget vs performance for all the mid-majors over time. My guess is that the Summit is doing more with less, efficiency-wise, than the MVC. All the Dakota Schools have been upgrading facilities and coach pay over the last several years, but I do think there is a ceiling at some point in terms of resources.
All the Summit teams have room to grow both in budget and competitiveness, but joining a league like the MVC at this point could bankrupt a school like UNO, IMO. The private schools could swing it, I think. Like ORU or Denver. Or Belmont, Valpo, etc.
Once USD and UND hit their stride and all four Dakota schools are competing on a similar level, I think we would form a very solid core of whatever conference we all decide to be in. At that point maybe the conversation will be flipped to what schools WE are going to poach from the Horizon, MVC, Big Sky, etc.
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Post by kiyoat on Apr 7, 2017 7:54:57 GMT -6
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Post by Yote 53 on Apr 7, 2017 8:22:05 GMT -6
Went over to the Valley message board last night to get a feel from the other side. One thing I have learned from all this conference shuffling is that the most successful conferences are the ones that share a like mission, are on the same page, support each other, and walk in unison together. The Big Ten does that, so does the SEC. The PAC is similar in that regard but it also has isolation working for it being on the West Coast. The ACC is starting to act that way as well after having a few early defections. The Big 12 does not and that is why they have turmoil.
If there was ever a conference in disarray it is the Valley. There is a definite schism between the public football playing schools and the private basketball first schools. Lots of finger pointing going on over at that board with the privates telling the publics that FCS football is an albatross to the conference and is holding it back. Telling them they need to drop football. I mean, you're going to tell UNI they need to drop football when they have, probably, the most recognizable basketball program left in the Valley and definitely put the resources into it. Kind of ridiculous.
I kind of laughed at Coyote Fan's post about the MVC FCS schools teaming up with the Summit FCS schools to make a solid all sports conference. The disparity in resources we are currently spending in basketball is too great. Upon further reflection it would probably be a great idea as they would all be State schools that share a similar vision. The Summit schools would need to build up their basketball, but that conference arrangement might also allow the Valley schools to draw back on their resources committed to basketball while still being in a highly competitive multi-bid conference. The schools could meet somewhere in the middle on basketball expenditures and provide some value added basketball results. Meaning, a multi-bid conference without breaking the bank. No question it would be a multi-bid conference too, at least on par to what the Valley is currently projecting. Because right now the Valley is UNI, a couple of schools with some success decades ago, and some privates who are tagging along pretending.
I think that once this P5/G5/FCS football thing is figured out you will see the Dakota schools aligned in a conference with the MVC state schools playing at the 2nd level of football (whatever it is called) or they will be aligned with the Montanas, Idahos, & UNC (or some other variation of Summit/BSC FCS partnership). The Midwest based Summit/Valley conference would be more preferable location and travel budget wise but our basketball expenditures are more in line with the BSC schools right now. We need to work to get our basketball budgets closer to Valley levels.
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Post by Yote 53 on Apr 7, 2017 8:43:28 GMT -6
So I did a little more reading over at the Valley site and I am going to quote a poster from over there. Credit to somebody named Svoboda for thinking this through and coming up with this post:
"There are 68 total openings when you have your 64 seeds and the 4 extra "first four" game opponents. There are 32 Division 1 hoops conferences so 68 participants minus 32 automatic qualifiers gives you 36 "at large" (might as well drop the at moniker) bids. Between the (what I consider) 8 (FBS P5, BE, AAC and A10) high major conferences, you have 100 total teams. This year, those conferences received 43 total bids. Subtract the 8 automatic qualifiers and that means 35 of the 36 available bids went to power conference schools. There was literally 1 bid up for grabs by mid-major conferences and it went to Saint Mary's, who was ranked the entire year going 28-4 and suffered 3 of those 4 losses to Gonzaga.
If you think there is going to be even more consolidation, there is absolutely no chance mid-major schools ever sniff an at-large again as the upper crust will have made sure that doesn't happen through their sheer force in numbers. Only possible scenario I could see stealing away a bid is a 30-1 season where you lose in your conference tournament final, had a high RPI/BPI/SOS and whatever other hoop the selection committee mandated you jump through for that particular year. That's pretty unrealistic scenario as a team rolling like that is probably going to squash their conference foes in the final, but whatever."
It's a pretty sobering thought realizing the power conferences in basketball may have already achieved total insulation from the mid-majors. One at-large bid up for grabs? That's not good. The seats at the basketball power conference's table is about filled up. For the rest of us this becomes a game of putting out a quality D1 basketball program that can win that auto-bid and hopefully do some damage in the tournament. Thing is, it's not fiscally responsible to go chasing the white whale on this and spend gobs of money just to lock up that elusive at-large bid that is going to go to the 8th place ACC team anyway. It's checkmate, the power schools have won already. Mid-major conferences are, for all intents and purposes, one bid conferences. Now the game is about aligning ourselves with like minded institutions, having stability, cost control, and putting out great teams at a great value. Forget what I said about the new Valley/Summit being a multi-bid conference, it may from time to time get an at-large but mid-majors are now one bid conferences. That includes the Valley as currently structured, no matter who they add or what they do.
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Post by usdtator on Apr 7, 2017 10:31:00 GMT -6
It's official... Wichita St is moving to AAC
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Post by gopheryote on Apr 7, 2017 13:32:26 GMT -6
So I did a little more reading over at the Valley site and I am going to quote a poster from over there. Credit to somebody named Svoboda for thinking this through and coming up with this post: "There are 68 total openings when you have your 64 seeds and the 4 extra "first four" game opponents. There are 32 Division 1 hoops conferences so 68 participants minus 32 automatic qualifiers gives you 36 "at large" (might as well drop the at moniker) bids. Between the (what I consider) 8 (FBS P5, BE, AAC and A10) high major conferences, you have 100 total teams. This year, those conferences received 43 total bids. Subtract the 8 automatic qualifiers and that means 35 of the 36 available bids went to power conference schools. There was literally 1 bid up for grabs by mid-major conferences and it went to Saint Mary's, who was ranked the entire year going 28-4 and suffered 3 of those 4 losses to Gonzaga. If you think there is going to be even more consolidation, there is absolutely no chance mid-major schools ever sniff an at-large again as the upper crust will have made sure that doesn't happen through their sheer force in numbers. Only possible scenario I could see stealing away a bid is a 30-1 season where you lose in your conference tournament final, had a high RPI/BPI/SOS and whatever other hoop the selection committee mandated you jump through for that particular year. That's pretty unrealistic scenario as a team rolling like that is probably going to squash their conference foes in the final, but whatever." It's a pretty sobering thought realizing the power conferences in basketball may have already achieved total insulation from the mid-majors. One at-large bid up for grabs? That's not good. The seats at the basketball power conference's table is about filled up. For the rest of us this becomes a game of putting out a quality D1 basketball program that can win that auto-bid and hopefully do some damage in the tournament. Thing is, it's not fiscally responsible to go chasing the white whale on this and spend gobs of money just to lock up that elusive at-large bid that is going to go to the 8th place ACC team anyway. It's checkmate, the power schools have won already. Mid-major conferences are, for all intents and purposes, one bid conferences. Now the game is about aligning ourselves with like minded institutions, having stability, cost control, and putting out great teams at a great value. Forget what I said about the new Valley/Summit being a multi-bid conference, it may from time to time get an at-large but mid-majors are now one bid conferences. That includes the Valley as currently structured, no matter who they add or what they do. Yeah - you and Svoboda nailed it. It has followed the same path as the football playoff - the main thing to be considered for entry is some version of 'how many P5 teams did you beat?', which, by definition, will always be a P5 team, since they play them the most and half of those are home games. The deck is stacked against mid-majors to get an invite (and the $$ that comes with it), and that isn't an accident.
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Post by Coyote Fan on Apr 9, 2017 18:55:34 GMT -6
Has anyone heard anything yet regarding the emergency meeting that was supposed to be setup for the Missouri Valley Conference today?
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Post by gorabbits on Apr 9, 2017 21:24:40 GMT -6
Has anyone heard anything yet regarding the emergency meeting that was supposed to be setup for the Missouri Valley Conference today? According to other boards, no action was taken today. Unclear what that means, perhaps a list of possibles was developed or schools are being contacted to determine interest before action is taken.
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