dave
Sophomore Member
Posts: 112
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Post by dave on Dec 13, 2017 15:20:29 GMT -6
For those of you wanting a lessor post season tournament against your peers there already are a couple, they are called the CBI and the CIT. As others have stated the purpose of the regular season for a mid major is building a resume worthy of a twelve seed or better, IIRC a twelve seed has about a 40% chance winning a first round match up. The exposure for making the NCAA tournament is huge, winning a game is even greater, making the sweet sixteen IMHO is greater than a D II national championship and equal to a FCS national championship. Winning a game or a sweet sixteen appearance are achievable goals, need to get to a twelve seed, see NDSU and UNI, they've done it.
The SLT tournament in Sioux Falls is one of the most successful mid major basketball tournaments in the nation, and quickly becoming one of the most respected conference tournaments at any level. The Big Sky Conference and Horizon League have approached the Summit League to see why it is so successful and are making changes to their tournaments to copy ours. Moving the SLT from Sioux Falls would be suicidal, the SL university presidents recognize this, that's why it will stay in Sioux Falls for a long time, BTW the SL presidents, not Douple or SDSU, decide where the conference tournament will be held. USD fans have the opportunity to contribute to the success of the SLT and have, last year at the State-U game in SF I'd say the crowd was 60-40 in favor of SDSU, and if someone would say that it was 55-45 I wouldn't argue. USD fans were loud and represented your school very well, many of them were sitting in the lower bowl. Any eastern school complaining that the SL is becoming too Dakota-centric would be better served by concentrating their efforts at growing their fan base. The reality is they don't have many fans, it is just the simple fact in our region the Dakota schools are the big fish in the little pond, out east they are the small fish in the big pond. As far as the eastern schools defecting to the Horizon League it was well known when the Jacks and Bison joined the Mid Con that the Horizon League was the destination conference for Oakland and the Indiana schools, if an invitation was offered they were going to take it.
As far as the tournament winner earning the auto bid to the big dance that is the nature of basketball, you have the regular season, and when the post season comes around almost everybody is in the conference tournament and has a chance at winning a championship, and advancing to the national tournament and winning a national championship. In high school basketball everybody gets a district birth, win and advance to the regions and then the state tournament, even in the NBA what is it the top 2/3's make the playoffs, once again in basketball in the post season everybody is eligible to compete for a championship, it's the nature of the game. Lastly as a Jackrabbit fan if you Coyotes want to compete in the NIT, CBI or CIT, I'll gladly accept the NCAA bid.
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Post by sdyotefan75 on Dec 13, 2017 17:04:13 GMT -6
Yoteforever, I am in agreement with you regarding the need for the Power 5 to be in a different tourney than the rest of us. Maybe make it more than just the power 5 but there should be 2 different tourney's like they do for the FCS. I am sure the mid major tourney would get pretty decent TV coverage as the major tourney would get. I really hope that whatever happens that they have a situation where every regular season and tourney champ gets into the NCAA Tourney. It would satisfy the fairness angle and the money and fan interest angle all at the same time. It doesn't have to be one or the other because it can be both. You dont like those first 2 rounds of the ncaa tourney? There is nothing better in sports. I take thur and fri off so i dont miss anything. Conference tourneys are great too. Its been that wY for years and isnt going to change cause you feel butthurt
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Post by kiyoat on Dec 13, 2017 17:10:50 GMT -6
The Big Sky Conference and Horizon League have approached the Summit League to see why it is so successful and are making changes to their tournaments to copy ours. Interesting. I did not know that. A quick search shows that the Big Sky will be switching to Boise from Reno in 2019. In the bidding process they insisted that the site be neutral, and centrally located in the conference. They also combined the men & women a year or two ago. The Horizon League switched to a neutral site bid from an on-campus model last year and branded it "Motor City Madness". They will be combining the men & women next year. I'm seeing a trend...
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Post by Coyote Fan on Dec 13, 2017 18:14:52 GMT -6
I wonder when the last time a mid major has won a national title. I can't remember it happening but I know Butler came within a half court shot of winning and Gonzaga obviously last year. In the early 90's UNLV won it and to my recollection they would be the closest to a mid major that I can think of. I don't know whether a Mountain West team is considered major or mid major but many would not consider UNLV a mid major. Villanova might be the most recent example since the Big East is now just a fringe major conference.
I personally would rather have the dream be realistic of winning a national title than just to make it a couple of rounds. Pulling off an upset or two is nice but it is just not a fair fight between the big schools compared to the smaller ones. That wouldn't take away a teams chances of playing and beating a major program during the regular season or an early season tournament.
Just look at the tourney selection process. The mid majors get the shaft more often than not when it comes to getting at large bids. With the Coyotes having to get through the Jacks every year in Sioux Falls it will limit the opportunities that the Yotes will even get to be in the big tourney.
If there was a mid major tourney they could easily have every conference regular season and tourney champ get to the tourney every year. For the mid majors they could have a lot of regionalization and a city like Sioux Falls would be a shoe in to be able to host some of the games.
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Post by sdyotefan75 on Dec 13, 2017 18:50:38 GMT -6
I wonder when the last time a mid major has won a national title. I can't remember it happening but I know Butler came within a half court shot of winning and Gonzaga obviously last year. In the early 90's UNLV won it and to my recollection they would be the closest to a mid major that I can think of. I don't know whether a Mountain West team is considered major or mid major but many would not consider UNLV a mid major. Villanova might be the most recent example since the Big East is now just a fringe major conference. I personally would rather have the dream be realistic of winning a national title than just to make it a couple of rounds. Pulling off an upset or two is nice but it is just not a fair fight between the big schools compared to the smaller ones. That wouldn't take away a teams chances of playing and beating a major program during the regular season or an early season tournament. Just look at the tourney selection process. The mid majors get the shaft more often than not when it comes to getting at large bids. With the Coyotes having to get through the Jacks every year in Sioux Falls it will limit the opportunities that the Yotes will even get to be in the big tourney. If there was a mid major tourney they could easily have every conference regular season and tourney champ get to the tourney every year. For the mid majors they could have a lot of regionalization and a city like Sioux Falls would be a shoe in to be able to host some of the games. The place isnt sold out. We have plenty of opportunities to have fans there. We just dont do it. So dont blame the rabbit fans, its our fault we arent there. Well not me, im there every year. I go win or lose and that's the problem. Yote fans dont want to invest just in case we lose right away. And again, dont try to ruin March madness
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Post by usdcoyote on Dec 14, 2017 11:07:07 GMT -6
For those of you who would like a separate tournament, without all the big dogs, then last year had to be a best case scenario for you. We won the conference title, but we got to play in the NIT instead of the big dance. The NIT is a national tournament without the top teams in it. CF mentions that our opportunities will be limited to get into the big dance because we have to get through the Jacks in Sioux Falls, but it also appears he should be happy about that. It sounds like he, and a few others, rather play in one of the smaller tournaments anyway, and that's fine. I don't think that is a ridiculous line of thinking, it's just not one that I share.
You can count me in the category of people who rather make the NCAA tournament. (Now granted, if we were to make a run to the final 4 in the NIT I would probably get more enjoyment out of that than making the NCAA tournament and going one and done, but going into each tournament you really have no idea how things are going to play out.) I admit, it does kind of suck to not have a realistic goal of winning a national title, but that is something I had to adjust to when we moved to DI. Our new national title became making the Sweet 16.
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Post by norcaljack on Dec 14, 2017 12:54:07 GMT -6
I have always wondered how much the conference gets from the SL Tournament. Last year they had an all time attendance record of 65,533, which broke the record of 60,007. With the money the SF Sports Authority pays for the tournament, the gate receipts, TV review and the sponsors, it has to be in the millions. I wonder how much each school get from that event each year. Anyone want to take a stab at it.
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Post by Coyote Fan on Dec 14, 2017 13:02:31 GMT -6
OK lets flip the script. What if all D1 football was one big division. 4 teams in the entire country make the playoffs. No other playoff chances. How would people feel about that. Even if the playoff field was expanded out to 16 that would result in the Coyotes having a slim chance to get into the Dakotronics Bowl at US Bank Stadium in Minneapolis which would give an auto bid to the MVFC champ. People get way too comfortable in the status quo and hate the site of change. It wouldn't matter though because if the alumni and fans voted the Coyotes would be in the NSIC with rivalries vs Augie and USF right now. People say no that would not be the case, but that is looking at things in retrospect. Most people wanted what they were comfortable with which was D2. No one thought a team like USD could beat Minnesota in anything, but now Minnesota can't beat USD in anything. It called being a visionary. Imagining things before they happen instead of looking at things in retrospect. People are get way to embedded in their comfort zone and are afraid to bust out of it.
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Post by usdcoyote on Dec 14, 2017 13:37:40 GMT -6
OK lets flip the script. What if all D1 football was one big division. 4 teams in the entire country make the playoffs. No other playoff chances. How would people feel about that. Even if the playoff field was expanded out to 16 that would result in the Coyotes having a slim chance to get into the Dakotronics Bowl at US Bank Stadium in Minneapolis which would give an auto bid to the MVFC champ. People get way too comfortable in the status quo and hate the site of change. It wouldn't matter though because if the alumni and fans voted the Coyotes would be in the NSIC with rivalries vs Augie and USF right now. People say no that would not be the case, but that is looking at things in retrospect. Most people wanted what they were comfortable with which was D2. No one thought a team like USD could beat Minnesota in anything, but now Minnesota can't beat USD in anything. It called being a visionary. Imagining things before they happen instead of looking at things in retrospect. People are get way to embedded in their comfort zone and are afraid to bust out of it. It's ironic that the guy calling USD fans out for not being visionary and being happy to compete for National Titles in D2 is calling for a lesser tournament to avoid the big schools so we can compete for a national title. If competing for a national title was our main goal then we should have stayed in D2. A true visionary would be setting his sights on becoming the next Gonzaga, not trying to create a separate tournament for non power schools.
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Post by kiyoat on Dec 14, 2017 13:43:35 GMT -6
I have always wondered how much the conference gets from the SL Tournament. Last year they had an all time attendance record of 65,533, which broke the record of 60,007. With the money the SF Sports Authority pays for the tournament, the gate receipts, TV review and the sponsors, it has to be in the millions. I wonder how much each school get from that event each year. Anyone want to take a stab at it. I don't know about money, but I can tell you that the average session attendance (9,978)was higher than all Mid-major conference tournaments, higher than two high-majors, and just below the p-5. The only mid-major that was even close was the MVC (9,339) and they have had their tournament at the same location for 26 years compared to our 9. Here's another stat that shows how much the SLT is punching above its weight: average session attendance / average conference home attendance (mid majors only) 4.32 Summit--------(net + 7668) 4.31 MEAC----------(net + 5597) 2.81 Ivy League----(net + 3231) first ever conf. tourney 2.19 Metro Atlantic (net + 2444) 2.15 Horizon--------(net +3125) 2.04 Southern------(net + 2455) 1.98 WCC-----------(net + 3884) 1.86 MVC------------(net +4329) so we are quadrupling our average home attendance per session as a conference! Compare that to the four worst: 0.91 Big Sky--------(net -185) 0.73 WAC-----------(net -806) 0.69 OVC------------(net -632) 0.54 Sun Belt-------(net -977)
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Post by yoteforever on Dec 14, 2017 16:13:00 GMT -6
In the words of Keith Jackson...." whoaaa nellyyy"
I was one of them that brought up the idea of a mid major tournament, whatever the hell that means. I am a sports junkie, and I live for March Madness. I surely want the Coyotes to win the SLT and go dancing. When I made my original post, I had not taken the money into consideration, so that's on me.
My point to my post was this. In my opinion, and only my opinion, I think if the Coyotes, Jacks, and Bison all made the "MID MAJOR TOURNAMENT", again, whatever the hell that means, and went into 4 different regions, and the Coyotes won 3 games and was playing Alabama Birmingham in Omaha at the Quest Center for the right to go to Madison Square Garden for the finals, there would be a lot of excitement from our fan base. How it would draw on TV, I have no stinking clue. Then add to the mix if one of the other two schools won, the aniticipation and hype ( in our corner of the world ) would be off the charts. And I'll be the first to admit I might be wrong here, but in my opinion that would generate a butt load of excitement and fuel fan growth more than winning the SLT and getting beat by Kansas by 28 in the first round.
I think back over the past few years and have a hard time remembering any South Dakota like team beating the big boys. After the first round, I'm guessing 90% of the people watching in rounds 3 and 4 (2nd weekend) couldn't name off hand who the winning teams beat to get to this point. So is that a great deal of recognition or not? Maybe it is, I honestly don't know.
All that being said...let's win the SLT and go to the first round of the dance and pray we shock the $hit out of someone and advance. THAT would be exciting.
I love March Madness. My hope is that we could position ourselves over time to be considered a mid major power. Keep playing the Dukes nd UCLA's and TCU's of the world, win one here and there, and who knows. We have the facilities to do it. Now we just need an avid fan base.
🙏 AMEN
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dave
Sophomore Member
Posts: 112
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Post by dave on Dec 14, 2017 21:28:16 GMT -6
I have always wondered how much the conference gets from the SL Tournament. Last year they had an all time attendance record of 65,533, which broke the record of 60,007. With the money the SF Sports Authority pays for the tournament, the gate receipts, TV review and the sponsors, it has to be in the millions. I wonder how much each school get from that event each year. Anyone want to take a stab at it. The last 12-14 years I've spent countless hours reading sports message boards and blogs and seem to remember reading somewhere that some mid major conferences the member schools have write out a check to have a post season conference tournament, The Summit League schools get to cash checks. Now don't take that as gospel as I'm getting older and more forgetful there is a possibility I'm misremembering something, LOL. BTW IMHO the big dance is the single greatest sporting event in the USA, it's not broke don't try to fix it.
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Post by Yotes on Dec 14, 2017 21:51:18 GMT -6
I have always wondered how much the conference gets from the SL Tournament. Last year they had an all time attendance record of 65,533, which broke the record of 60,007. With the money the SF Sports Authority pays for the tournament, the gate receipts, TV review and the sponsors, it has to be in the millions. I wonder how much each school get from that event each year. Anyone want to take a stab at it. The last 12-14 years I've spent countless hours reading sports message boards and blogs and seem to remember reading somewhere that some mid major conferences the member schools have write out a check to have a post season conference tournament, The Summit League schools get to cash checks. Now don't take that as gospel as I'm getting older and more forgetful there is a possibility I'm misremembering something, LOL. BTW IMHO the big dance is the single greatest sporting event in the USA, it's not broke don't try to fix it. I'd believe it when you say some conferences have had to pay out for their conference tournament. Take a conference like the WAC having their tournament in Las Vegas. Very little fan support when they play on campus, no one is going to be showing up to a neutral site that is very far from its campuses.
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Post by Yotes on Dec 14, 2017 23:31:54 GMT -6
I see Northern Colorado beat Denver 83-63. I'm still upset we lost to those guys but at least they aren't embarrassing us with their 8-3 record.
UNO finally got that elusive 2nd win of the season 77-74 over Arkansas State. Whatever momentum they seemed to be building the past couple years appears to be lost.
Also, I can't help but notice TCU remains undefeated and is currently ranked 14th in the polls. We nearly had those guys. Had our shot in the final minute and they got away. Moral victories stink but this one looks better each week.
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Post by Coyote Fan on Dec 15, 2017 21:29:08 GMT -6
Damn the Jacks went out to Boulder and put up 103 points against the Buffs.
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