obc
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Post by obc on Dec 15, 2018 9:57:52 GMT -6
Augie to the Summit League is going to happen as YFE stated. I think a reasonable speculation on top of that is they will try and get their FB team a Pioneer League affiliation - I would guess they will be successful making that happen as well. Three D1 schools in SD is an awful lot, I agree. My hope is that instead of them cutting into the pie and taking from USD and SDSU, that they help make the pie bigger for everyone. The pie got bigger when SDSU and NDSU moved up. USD has also tried to make the pie bigger with their move and I feel has largely been successful with that - even though there is a long way to go yet. There are still many people in Sioux Falls area (and on a larger scale regionally) that are sports fans that are up for grabs. I may be in the minority, but I have a hunch that Augie will grow into a successful MBB and WBB team in the SL. Their cross country program is already pretty solid and their Softball team would compete with many of the SL teams right now (in fact they have beaten the SD schools). I am curious if they can continue with Wrestling and Baseball. Success doesn't always mean a school will keep them (see UNO's wrestling team a few years back). Augie didn't put the 2030 date out there by accident. IMO they know they have significant facilities work to do. They have a stated goal and plan to get their undergraduate enrollment to 3000 by then. Stephanie Herseth-Sandlin is a very effective and well-connected leader of their institution - I would not underestimate her.
My bigger concern than conference affiliation is their threat to USD from a general student standpoint. They want to aggressively build their pre-med programs and partner with Sanford to invest in a large way to make that happen. Sanford got the naming rights to the USD Medical school for a steal several years back, and seeing them partner with Augie to build (what Augie is hoping) will be the best Pre-Med undergrad program in the region, is tough to see.
Ultimately, USD can choose how they respond to all of this as an institution. Will they allow Augie to be a leech to suck resources from a static pool, or aggressively step-up, be aggressive and tactical, and use Augie's desire to grow to also fuel the energy behind USD's plans to also grow in Athletics and Academics? I think USD will be both aggressive and successful. USD has planted a flag in Sioux Falls and that program will grow at a steady pace over the next several years and will be looked at as a critical element of USD's success down the road IMO.
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Post by GoYotes on Dec 15, 2018 10:19:11 GMT -6
Well said OBC
I think the move will likely work OK for Augie, but they do have 3 big hurdles to get over:
(1) Football - They recently built a nice state of the art stadium, with the lead donor being a huge supported of the football program, and appear to have invested a lot of dollars into football. I don't think the can afford scholarship football at the MVFC level and even if they could, they will not get an invite. If they go the non-scholarship (Pioneer) route, they will alienate a large base of the supporters. There only hope for a good football solution would be for the Summit League to sponsor football and they would pretty much be the punching bag for the rest of the conference. I don't see any of the Dakota's having any desire to leave the MVFC. (2) Facilities, especially basketball - The Elmen Center is no where close to being a D1 facility. They currently play at the Sioux Falls Arena, but there have been discussions about demolishing the Arena to make room for more convention center and motel space. They can't play at the Premier Center or Sioux Falls would lose the ability to host the SLT. There may end up at the Pentagon, which is father from their campus than USF's football field is from theirs. (3) Financial commitment. - Their recent decision to scrap their 6 million dollar indoor track and multi-purpose facility and instead build a non regulation outdoor track doesn't scream having the dollars to make this work. Perhaps these plans will change if more donors step up now that their D1 plans have been announced.
But who knows, maybe with their desire to be the next Creighton, plans are in the works to drop football, turn Kirkeby-Over into a top notch men's soccer facility, bypass the Summit, join the Missouri Valley Conference and play all their basketball games in the Premier Center.
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Post by aldewitt on Dec 16, 2018 2:44:34 GMT -6
If they don’t drive the hour now they were never in the picture as USD or SDSU fans. The Sioux Falls fans will have a reason to travel when Augie joins. It’s money in the bank.
some of the grand forks fans are hilarious. They are worried about recreating the old NCC with the attitude why did anybody bother to move up at all. Augie isn’t even a respected research university! This is from D1 hockey fans that spend half the season playing in D2 & D3 arenas in a sport full of lower division schools masquerading as D1 “academic research institutions”.
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Post by gopheryote on Dec 16, 2018 7:42:27 GMT -6
Can someone help me out: what is the reasoning/logic behind the anti-NCC-part-2 bias?
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Post by Yotes on Dec 16, 2018 10:02:25 GMT -6
Can someone help me out: what is the reasoning/logic behind the anti-NCC-part-2 bias? We spent a ton of money to elevate from that. Associating with Augustana again would be embarrassing. They aren't going to come up to our level, so why did we ever bother dumping hundreds of millions into upgrades if we could have settled with what we had?
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Post by Yotes on Dec 16, 2018 10:28:06 GMT -6
On the bright side, we can look forward to a re-seating of the conference tournament in about 7 years or so (whenever Augie could play in it).
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dave
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Post by dave on Dec 16, 2018 12:56:30 GMT -6
Can someone help me out: what is the reasoning/logic behind the anti-NCC-part-2 bias? Not an anti NCC thing for me it is the fact that this area is so sparsely populated, coaches will say recruiting starts at campus and spreads out from there. We soon will have three D-I schools competing for the limited number of athletes in this area. Same could be said for corporate donations. A diluted talent pool and funding could hurt the competitiveness of our local schools and the Summit League overall, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link. The four Dakota state schools could easily make the argument for moving up because our peer institutions in other states were already D-I, Augie fits the profile of a D-II school. Augie should first grow its enrollment, add more majors and graduate programs and then move up sometime around 2030. All that being said I've reached the acceptance stage of grief, Augie will be a D-I member of the Summit League in the not too distant future.
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Post by yoteforever on Dec 16, 2018 13:39:31 GMT -6
Can someone help me out: what is the reasoning/logic behind the anti-NCC-part-2 bias? Not an anti NCC thing for me it is the fact that this area is so sparsely populated, coaches will say recruiting starts at campus and spreads out from there. We soon will have three D-I schools competing for the limited number of athletes in this area. Same could be said for corporate donations. A diluted talent pool and funding could hurt the competitiveness of our local schools and the Summit League overall, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link. The four Dakota state schools could easily make the argument for moving up because our peer institutions in other states were already D-I, Augie fits the profile of a D-II school. Augie should first grow its enrollment, add more majors and graduate programs and then move up sometime around 2030. All that being said I've reached the acceptance stage of grief, Augie will be a D-I member of the Summit League in the not too distant future. This. Well put Dave
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Post by coyote70 on Dec 16, 2018 21:33:15 GMT -6
I like Augie, but am glad I'm not an alumnus. That's because down the road there are going to be some big hands trying to get into my back pocket!
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Post by Yote 53 on Dec 17, 2018 9:13:42 GMT -6
Yep, let's add Augie to the Summit and then watch as everyone else not in the Dakotas bolts the conference. This is such a stupid move on so many levels.
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Post by gopheryote on Dec 17, 2018 10:21:55 GMT -6
Can someone help me out: what is the reasoning/logic behind the anti-NCC-part-2 bias? Thanks for the replies. I think there are some questionable items sprinkled in the reasons, but nothing too important. What IS telling to me was what was not mentioned, and IMO is a far bigger/scarier/ethically questionable item: Sanford (maybe its leadership more specifically). The giant egos and willingness/ability to spend $$ to create influence & fear (of losing the $$) is frightening to me. Their reach is already too big for my comfort at UxD/xDSU, then they bought the Summit League HQ. Now they are telling Augie to go D1, because... money. If you take away the economic realities you can quickly throw out expected competitive norms/expectations. And that opens up a small school like Augie to be completely susceptible to the whims of a few big egos at Sanford with pockets deeper than any of the schools in the conference. (Quick question: how much $ do you think the HC's for the revenue sports are paid directly by Sanford in SD today? I know the going rate for a xDSU HC a few years ago was a healthy % of the total comp.) FWIW, I'm not a real black-helicopter type, and these concerns were in place well before the CEO-secretary-love-child cover up thing became so widely known.
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Post by usdtator on Jan 9, 2019 14:38:32 GMT -6
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Post by kiyoat on Jan 9, 2019 15:14:40 GMT -6
Sounds like Herbster has been more candid than our comissioner on expansion. Note to media: ask Dave, not Tom.
Grand Canyon was interested, and they decided not to go in that direction? I thought they were a pretty strong candidate, geography aside. NMSU might come with them, too. Who knows?
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91jack
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Post by 91jack on Jan 9, 2019 16:37:51 GMT -6
Sounds like Herbster has been more candid than our comissioner on expansion. Note to media: ask Dave, not Tom. Grand Canyon was interested, and they decided not to go in that direction? I thought they were a pretty strong candidate, geography aside. NMSU might come with them, too. Who knows? I thought that Grand Canyon would be a good candidate, too. I saw that Oral Roberts wanted them in but the Dakota schools and Omaha voted them down. If things like this happen often I could see why some of the other schools might feel on the outside. You need other games to fill out your schedule anyway and odds are you will have to fly somewhere for those games so why not bring in a good competitive team?
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Post by Yotes on Jan 9, 2019 19:15:27 GMT -6
Very disappointed we didn't pursue GCU's interest. Great program to add, might please Denver, opens the door to pursuing NMSU.
But maybe travel wasn't the sticking point, since we aren't getting anyone worth adding that isn't a flight. I don't like the idea of USD associating with a for-profit institution but that's what this league needs to do in order to advance.
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