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Post by kiyoat on Dec 26, 2017 15:30:31 GMT -6
Despite the negative comments, basketball attendance numbers for both men and women have been trending up over the past several years. I just did a comparison of the non-conference home game attendance and total season home attendance for the men and women over the last five seasons. This year's non-conference home attendance average has been the largest in that time-frame!
Men's BB year-------NonConAve/SeasonAve
2013/14--1355--------1796 2014/15--1337--------1745 2015/16--1563--------1874 2016/17--1779--------2192 2017-18--1969--------? (i'll guess 2500)
Women's BB year-------NonConAve/SeasonAve 2013/14--1124--------1398 2014/15--1546--------1568 2015/16--1572--------1720 (2333 with WNIT) 2016/17--1559--------1831 2017/18--1766--------? (i'll guess 2100)
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Post by usdtator on Dec 26, 2017 17:58:55 GMT -6
Despite the negative comments, basketball attendance numbers for both men and women have been trending up over the past several years. I just did a comparison of the non-conference home game attendance and total season home attendance for the men and women over the last five seasons. This year's non-conference home attendance average has been the largest in that time-frame! Men's BByear-------NonConAve/SeasonAve 2013/14--1355--------1796 2014/15--1337--------1745 2015/16--1563--------1874 2016/17--1779--------2192 2017-18-- 1969--------? (i'll guess 2500) Women's BByear-------NonConAve/SeasonAve 2013/14--1124--------1398 2014/15--1546--------1568 2015/16--1572--------1720 (2333 with WNIT) 2016/17--1559--------1831 2017/18-- 1766--------? (i'll guess 2100) Great info to know... however, now we'll have to see CF's diatribe on how wrong these number are in reality. I appreciate your research and presenting us with all the info that you do give us.
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Post by Coyote Fan on Dec 26, 2017 18:45:23 GMT -6
Everyone can decide for themselves if the last couple of home games had over 1700 in attendance which is what was announced. If anyone would like to believe what is reported it is free country and everyone is allowed an opinion. I will say that USD is almost certainly counting heads for people that are not in their paid seats. If there were indeed 1700 than maybe we can start believing the reported attendance as actual attendance. I will hold my own opinion on that but I believe photos and what I see for myself.
I will say that USD is lucky that so many people purchase season tickets that don't show up for games because it is free revenue for the school.
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Post by kiyoat on Dec 27, 2017 15:01:46 GMT -6
Despite the negative comments, basketball attendance numbers for both men and women have been trending up over the past several years. I just did a comparison of the non-conference home game attendance and total season home attendance for the men and women over the last five seasons. This year's non-conference home attendance average has been the largest in that time-frame! Men's BByear-------NonConAve/SeasonAve 2013/14--1355--------1796 2014/15--1337--------1745 2015/16--1563--------1874 2016/17--1779--------2192 2017-18-- 1969--------? (i'll guess 2500) Women's BByear-------NonConAve/SeasonAve 2013/14--1124--------1398 2014/15--1546--------1568 2015/16--1572--------1720 (2333 with WNIT) 2016/17--1559--------1831 2017/18-- 1766--------? (i'll guess 2100) Great info to know... however, now we'll have to see CF's diatribe on how wrong these number are in reality. I appreciate your research and presenting us with all the info that you do give us. CF can interpret it however he wants. These are the numbers the NCAA uses, and I don't care if it is gate or sold tickets. I would guess that most teams opt to report sold tickets, so it is a fair comparison. The fact of the matter is that there is an obvious trend, and the trend us up. We can always do better, but we seem to be at least heading in the right direction. For those who have bought season tickets for the first time this year, you are a big part of the upward trend. Nice job!
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Post by yotebewithyou on Dec 27, 2017 17:05:22 GMT -6
Everyone can decide for themselves if the last couple of home games had over 1700 in attendance which is what was announced. If anyone would like to believe what is reported it is free country and everyone is allowed an opinion. I will say that USD is almost certainly counting heads for people that are not in their paid seats. If there were indeed 1700 than maybe we can start believing the reported attendance as actual attendance. I will hold my own opinion on that but I believe photos and what I see for myself. I will say that USD is lucky that so many people purchase season tickets that don't show up for games because it is free revenue for the school. If you're a vacuum salesman do you report the number of vacuums you sold or the number of people using the vacuum?
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Post by Coyote Fan on Dec 27, 2017 17:17:19 GMT -6
Based on what I have seen I don't think the attendance is up from last year. On TV games there were not a lot but more fans in the stands last year than this year. That is based on observation and not based on any kind of counting. It is natural that the attendance would spike a little for the first year of a new arena and then gradually do down from there.
This isn't just a USD thing but we are not even close to the attendance we saw in the 90's. I don't see any evidence that attendance is about to make a rebound anytime soon provided the schedule doesn't improve much. Today's students just have too much to do and aren't coming out to the games like they used to. The same goes for adults as well.
I can make a suggestion that I do think would help a lot. Get UNC in the Summit with UND next year. I am a D1 guy personally but the NCC did it right when it came to scheduling. Go to travel partners and play on Friday and Saturday to maximize attendance. Have mostly double headers men and women and that is the best way to increase program interest. It is proven that people like predictability and rivalries when it comes to attendance. The Summit is too unpredictable and the game days very way too much with too many Wednesday's and Thursday's mixed in. I know there may be some travel concerns so if a travel partner is not within 3-4 hours of each other than have the home team host on Saturday's and Sunday's instead of Friday's and Saturday's. If we pair up with SDSU as our travel partner we could have Friday and Saturday games every home stand. If the home locations are too far apart for travel partners than have a 1 and 3:15PM start on Saturday and Sunday evening start times for the next day. It would allow teams more flexibility if they have a long travel day.
As long as the Summit continues to shown no desire whatsoever to help it's own schools with scheduling the league will not grow like it should. As long as the Summit is happy with a league fewer than 10 teams than it is it's own worst enemy. Once the Summit focused on something besides the basketball post season tournament is when the league can really start to grow, and that includes all the schools not just a select few, or one. The schools are at fault themselves if they are not in the ear of the league office, and the league is at fault if they are not listening to it's members. I have a feeling some of both may be happening.
Travel partners that could play home games on Friday and Saturday.
UND and NDSU USD and SDSU UNC and Denver
Travel parners that would play home games on Saturday and Sunday
Omaha and Oral Roberts Western Illinois and Fort Wayne - but both of these schools may have limited time in the league especially Fort Wayne.
If fans get to know when their teams will play their home games and make it a habit than it is easier to plan in advance. People are much more in their set ways then they are spontaneous. With USD there are a good percentage of fans that come from outside Vermillion and the scheduling is a crucial aspect to them coming to games. Obviously opponents make a big difference as well.
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Post by Coyote Fan on Dec 27, 2017 17:27:05 GMT -6
Everyone can decide for themselves if the last couple of home games had over 1700 in attendance which is what was announced. If anyone would like to believe what is reported it is free country and everyone is allowed an opinion. I will say that USD is almost certainly counting heads for people that are not in their paid seats. If there were indeed 1700 than maybe we can start believing the reported attendance as actual attendance. I will hold my own opinion on that but I believe photos and what I see for myself. I will say that USD is lucky that so many people purchase season tickets that don't show up for games because it is free revenue for the school. If you're a vacuum salesman do you report the number of vacuums you sold or the number of people using the vacuum? If depends how you describe it. If you report as attendance there is a crucial word in there spelled out "attend". You have to actually be in the arena to attend a game last I checked. It is amazing how people just have such a problem with the truth. If the attendance was reported as "sold tickets" I would have no problem with the 1700 figure they have been coming up with. They should change the box score to "sold tickets" and "attendance" and report both. If they want to count paid tickets than don't use the word "attendance" as it is miss leading. Technically USD could give away a thousand tickets to random people on the streets, to students or to businesses that never get used and were never purchased. If USD wanted to count that I suppose they could count it but it is miss leading. The players don't care about how many tickets are sold. They care about how many are in the arena and how loud those people are cheering them on. The more one seeks out the truth the more can be done to fix it. The more one hides from the truth the more one is going to ignore it and not fix the problem. Many people like sweeping things under the rug, I personally don't.
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Post by kiyoat on Dec 27, 2017 17:37:35 GMT -6
The NCAA allows three ways to report attendance: Gate, ticket sales, or estimate. The estimate option is probably what we saw from Oral Roberts a few years back.
I assume that the vast majority of attendance counts in the vast majority of schools in the the vast majority of NCAA-sanctioned sports use sold tickets for the count. To do otherwise would put your school in a self-imposed sanction, and would also be a disservice for those that paid good money for season tickets.
If I hear from a season-ticket-holder that attends most of the games that they think butts in seats is down, I'll believe it. Otherwise I'll go with the official count as an indicator that things are moving in a positive direction.
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Post by Coyote Fan on Dec 27, 2017 17:55:00 GMT -6
The NCAA allows three ways to report attendance: Gate, ticket sales, or estimate. The estimate option is probably what we saw from Oral Roberts a few years back. I assume that the vast majority of attendance counts in the vast majority of schools in the the vast majority of NCAA-sanctioned sports use sold tickets for the count. To do otherwise would put your school in a self-imposed sanction, and would also be a disservice for those that paid good money for season tickets. If I hear from a season-ticket-holder that attends most of the games that they think butts in seats is down, I'll believe it. Otherwise I'll go with the official count as an indicator that things are moving in a positive direction. I actually have no problem what-so-ever with the options that they may use to count attendance but they should report it as it is then. If it is sold tickets, just report it as "sold tickets". If it is an estimate then that is the best way to count actual "attendance". We can argue semantics until we are blue in the face. What we should be discussing is what can be done to fix the problem and I gave a big picture idea already in this thread. I think we all agree that there are not enough people sitting in the arena for most of these games so far, if not all of them. Having some conference stability is the biggest thing I can think of that would help attendance. Some of that is out of USD's control but at the same time if USD is not in the ear of the league office they better be and soon. Obviously the schedule both in competition and in desirable dates is a pretty big issue right now, especially for the Men (being a damn good team) that suddenly are going to have an even tougher time getting teams to come into the SCSC to get their butts kicked.
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Post by wrj on Dec 27, 2017 18:55:24 GMT -6
I will say that USD is lucky that so many people purchase season tickets that don't show up for games because it is free revenue for the school. But it would sure be nice if the people who buy seats without intent to attend would buy the ones in the corners and leave the best ones for the fans who intend to show up.
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Post by Coyote Fan on Dec 27, 2017 19:16:40 GMT -6
I will say that USD is lucky that so many people purchase season tickets that don't show up for games because it is free revenue for the school. But it would sure be nice if the people who buy seats without intent to attend would buy the ones in the corners and leave the best ones for the fans who intend to show up. No question WRJ I know some facilities that host events will actually make announcements to the crowd that all fans can move up and take any unattended seats. I don't know how often this happens but it would be a good idea IMO. Since USD wants to report more in attendance than are actually there by counting paid attendance they would build a stronger case if they did indeed allow people to move to the better seats. Those are also the ones that get shown on TV and perception is reality. Have this policy be up front when people buy their season tickets. I am sure most people that buy those tickets that don't show up wouldn't mind that policy. It would get people closer to the court which would help the atmosphere and promote more people to cheer. If people are packed into a tighter area rather than spread around they are more likely to be into the game. I really don't see a problem with a policy like this. This happened to me when I attended an MMA event in Sioux Falls. I bought seats in the upper deck for the event. When I went to the proper level I was given lower bowl tickets as the upper deck was actually closed. The UFC wanted to make themselves look good by having everyone closer to the action and on TV. It was only a half full arena at best but it seemed fuller than it was.
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Post by elcoyote on Dec 27, 2017 22:38:03 GMT -6
I have season tickets and I've sat in different seats many times from courtside to top row. No one ever challenges a person. It's easy, find an empty seat and plop yourself down. Problem solved. The only exception to this would probably be a bunny game.
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91jack
Sophomore Member
Posts: 162
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Post by 91jack on Jan 3, 2018 8:51:33 GMT -6
The NCAA allows three ways to report attendance: Gate, ticket sales, or estimate. The estimate option is probably what we saw from Oral Roberts a few years back. I assume that the vast majority of attendance counts in the vast majority of schools in the the vast majority of NCAA-sanctioned sports use sold tickets for the count. To do otherwise would put your school in a self-imposed sanction, and would also be a disservice for those that paid good money for season tickets. If I hear from a season-ticket-holder that attends most of the games that they think butts in seats is down, I'll believe it. Otherwise I'll go with the official count as an indicator that things are moving in a positive direction. I was told that ORU states their attendance by- Season ticket sold + single game tickets sold for that game +student/faculty passes used for that game They do NOT go by butts in the seats. I think they must have a ton of season tickets that they sell every year. They listed their average attendance at 3317 fans/game last season. They only had that many fans when they played Tulsa (4230 fans) and possibly for the NDSU game (I don't know how many fans they had for that one). Their other 12 home games all had less fans than what they had listed for their average attendance. I would think they would go off of what they list for attendance but I guess they don't. The only reason I looked into this is because their was talk about how their coaches salaries and attendance would fit in better in the Missouri Valley then the Summit League. That got me curious as to how many fans were at the games against SDSU. There were more fans in Brookings than Tulsa by about 1100 fans or so. The attendance were listed as in Brookings (3,917) and Tulsa (2,812). Since that was way below their 3317 fans/game I wanted to see who they played that brought in all of the fans. It wasn't anybody but Tulsa and maybe NDSU.
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Post by kiyoat on Jan 3, 2018 9:40:07 GMT -6
The NCAA allows three ways to report attendance: Gate, ticket sales, or estimate. The estimate option is probably what we saw from Oral Roberts a few years back. I assume that the vast majority of attendance counts in the vast majority of schools in the the vast majority of NCAA-sanctioned sports use sold tickets for the count. To do otherwise would put your school in a self-imposed sanction, and would also be a disservice for those that paid good money for season tickets. If I hear from a season-ticket-holder that attends most of the games that they think butts in seats is down, I'll believe it. Otherwise I'll go with the official count as an indicator that things are moving in a positive direction. I was told that ORU states their attendance by- Season ticket sold + single game tickets sold for that game +student/faculty passes used for that game They do NOT go by butts in the seats. I think they must have a ton of season tickets that they sell every year. They listed their average attendance at 3317 fans/game last season. They only had that many fans when they played Tulsa (4230 fans) and possibly for the NDSU game (I don't know how many fans they had for that one). Their other 12 home games all had less fans than what they had listed for their average attendance. I would think they would go off of what they list for attendance but I guess they don't. The only reason I looked into this is because their was talk about how their coaches salaries and attendance would fit in better in the Missouri Valley then the Summit League. That got me curious as to how many fans were at the games against SDSU. There were more fans in Brookings than Tulsa by about 1100 fans or so. The attendance were listed as in Brookings (3,917) and Tulsa (2,812). Since that was way below their 3317 fans/game I wanted to see who they played that brought in all of the fans. It wasn't anybody but Tulsa and maybe NDSU. With ORU I could believe that they might sell a ton of season tickets to donors/third parties that have no intention of going to many games. They are a private/evangelical university founded by prominent Charismatic Televangelist/Faith Healer/Swindler Oral Roberts. Nefarious figures wouldn't surprise me either. In their early history as a University there was a good deal of abuse of power and misuse of funds by Oral and his son Richard. This only ended recently when Richard Roberts was forced to resign in 2007 amid multiple lawsuits from former employees, and exposure of decades of financial misdeeds. There was a reported debt of $50 Mil at that time. They had to get some huge donations to get right financially, had to lay off lots of employees, etc. The interesting thing about ORU basketball attendance is that the huge reported numbers petered out gradually after 2007. From an average of 6,500 in 2007 all the way down to an average of 3,400 in 2011. Maybe fans were turned off by all the exposed corruption, maybe the men's teams stopped being dominant, or maybe ORU just stopped mis-reporting attendance. Who knows.
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Post by gopheryote on Jan 21, 2018 7:19:47 GMT -6
MBB played at UNO last night. It was a Saturday night game, and it is in a big population center, both of which help, of course. But UNO hoops typically doesn't draw too well, and the team is 7-15 right now. But last night's attendance was over 3,000. What struck me, however, was that the corners and ends of the lower level were really full. And everyone knows those seats stink in a hockey-arena-set up.
I was curious if they ran a promo for those seats, and couldn't find one. But here is their standard ticket pricing: Center Court Adult - $16, Youth - $10 Lower Bowl Corner Adult - $10 Youth - $5
Lower Bowl G.A. Adult - $5 Youth - $3
UNO & UNMC students can bring one guest for $5
For WBB, all adult tix are $8 and youth $5.
For Season Tix: Courtside - $500
Lower Bowl Center Court - $175
Lower Bowl Corner - $115
Upper to Lower Bowl Move - $99
TL,DR: You can catch a game for $5, and they are getting people to go to games in a market where they are 3rd-fiddle (at best). I like that approach.
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