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Post by Yotes on Feb 11, 2018 20:45:20 GMT -6
You can't debate a broken record.
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Post by Cousin Eddie on Feb 13, 2018 11:19:59 GMT -6
The problem with the general lack of moderation (whether that means editing/deleting posts or suspending/banning members) is that the issue isn't with the annoyance to the regular user. It isn't about whether you can ignore a post or not read something that annoys you. It is the image that these posts present for USD. I am sorry, Yote 53, but I cannot disagree with you more about this issue. There are parents, students, players, recruits and visiting fans that may view this board just once or a handful of times. It leaves an impression. You mention Lakesbison, but he has been long banned by the NDSU board. Say what you want about the SDSU board, but they have more users and what folks perceive to be a stronger fan base. There are TONS of factors for this, but one is messaging.
It isn't about always being positive. Far from it. It is when posts are hurtful, particularly to players and coaches. If you don't think that impacts recruiting and/or the perception of current players and coaches, I think you are gravely mistaken. Criticism is one thing, but there is a line. When one poster is continually negative and, indeed, hurtful to the program in nearly EVERY SINGLE THREAD, it appears as if this activity is not just tolerated but, in fact, condoned. That is a problem.
Personally, my solution would be a +/- system on every post. If a post gets enough negative votes, have it be automatically closed or deleted. I don't know that banning is a solution due to the nature of the way folks can sign up on here. I ultimately don't think bans are effective. But if the masses think a post is inappropriate, close it down or remove it. Let the people regulate the message.
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Post by Yote 53 on Feb 13, 2018 11:54:57 GMT -6
I think there is a feature where posts/posters can be upvoted or downvoted. If we open this feature up at least anybody looking at it can see how the poster is viewed by the board. Sort of a "consider the messenger" feature. It wouldn't be necessary to delete a post or lock a thread because one could very easily see how that post is viewed by the community.
Do you post on the SDSU board? I no longer do for good reason. I don't even bother visiting the place anymore. You shouldn't use that place as an example because it is pretty fascist. It is the epitome of group think.
Lakes got banned from Bisonville because he crossed the line and was offensive and inappropriate.
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Post by kiyoat on Feb 13, 2018 14:41:05 GMT -6
Another thing to consider as far as solutions is when a disruptive tangent derails a thread, mods should consider moving (splicing) the tangential posts into their own threads, or into designated catch-all "tangent" threads. That's what I was hoping would happen with the attendance skepticism posts. That way, it really isn't censoring any posts, just redirecting unproductive or disruptive discussion.
Those that wanted to read the original intent of the thread, and might be put-off by the argument, can then do so. If you care to read or engage in the (civil) argument, you can still do that in the new thread.
Obviously, personal attacks, profanity, flaming, trolling etc. should be dealt with differently. I dont' know how much work is involved in moving posts around, but it could be a useful tool. JMO
Also: This wouldn't have to just apply to contentious arguments and controversial topics/statements. Even completely civil discussion can stray so far from the original intent of a thread that it justifies removing it into a new thread.
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Post by easmus on Feb 13, 2018 14:45:14 GMT -6
Another thing to consider as far as solutions is when a disruptive tangent derails a thread, mods should consider moving (splicing) the tangential posts into their own threads, or into designated catch-all "tangent" threads. That's what I was hoping would happen with the attendance skepticism posts. That way, it really isn't censoring any posts, just redirecting unproductive or disruptive discussion. Those that wanted to read the original intent of the thread, and might be put-off by the argument, can then do so. If you care to read or engage in the (civil) argument, you can still do that in the new thread. Obviously, personal attacks, profanity, flaming, trolling etc. should be dealt with differently. I dont' know how much work is involved in moving posts around, but it could be a useful tool. JMO Also: This wouldn't have to just apply to contentious arguments and controversial topics/statements. Even completely civil discussion can stray so far from the original intent of a thread that it justifies removing it into a new thread. Agreed.
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Post by Cousin Eddie on Feb 13, 2018 14:57:11 GMT -6
I think there is a feature where posts/posters can be upvoted or downvoted. If we open this feature up at least anybody looking at it can see how the poster is viewed by the board. Sort of a "consider the messenger" feature. It wouldn't be necessary to delete a post or lock a thread because one could very easily see how that post is viewed by the community. Do you post on the SDSU board? I no longer do for good reason. I don't even bother visiting the place anymore. You shouldn't use that place as an example because it is pretty fascist. It is the epitome of group think. Lakes got banned from Bisonville because he crossed the line and was offensive and inappropriate. Ha! No, I don't post on there, really. Generally speaking, my experience has been that it is easy for them to take an opposing viewpoint or a fact correction as trolling. Point taken. My intent was more to suggest that a little moderation wouldn't hurt.
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Post by azsod73 on Feb 13, 2018 16:19:14 GMT -6
I think there is a feature where posts/posters can be upvoted or downvoted. If we open this feature up at least anybody looking at it can see how the poster is viewed by the board. Sort of a "consider the messenger" feature. It wouldn't be necessary to delete a post or lock a thread because one could very easily see how that post is viewed by the community. Do you post on the SDSU board? I no longer do for good reason. I don't even bother visiting the place anymore. You shouldn't use that place as an example because it is pretty fascist. It is the epitome of group think. Lakes got banned from Bisonville because he crossed the line and was offensive and inappropriate. I would like to see a board feature that would allow participants to rate a particular post. As I recall, we used to have something like that. This would enable the occasional visitor, or perhaps a prospective recruit or their parents, to read a crazyass post and know that it is not the majority view.
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Post by Coyote Fan on Feb 13, 2018 19:07:59 GMT -6
There goes Cousin Eddie again riding on his perceived high horse again. Why don't we compare posts complimenting our basketball teams and see how that has turned out so far this year. I don't think there is a comparison as far as that goes. CE I know you want people to form a perfect line one behind the other of people gushing about the Coyotes. This board says and I quote "In no way is this site affiliated with USD or its Athletic Department". It is not our job to make sure USD's imagine is withheld and it should be no ones job to determine if a topic of discussion or a particular poster upholds that imagine. I want USD to succeed but that doesn't mean that I am going to sprinkle everything with Coyote fairly dust. A perfect example was the moral crisis involving the defensive football players during the football season. Should we just sweep the whole thing under the rug or should we talk about it. I am in the camp of talking about it even if the discussion does not put USD is a very good light. Just like attendance. Talking about it makes USD look bad but there is a significant misrepresentation going on with it and there is nothing wrong with bringing that to light. I admit I go over board on that topic but when I see something obviously wrong I want to talk about it.
I am different than most on this board and I will be the first to admit it. I am blunt about things and won't apologize for that. Now if I was outright lying about things or slandering or something like that, that is a whole different thing. That would be and should be considered unacceptable. My posts are based on facts or well thought out observations for the most part. Do I get a little emotional sometimes with my posts, yes I do, just like a fan is supposed to be.
One of the biggest differences between me and the rest of those that post here was the entire Joe Glenn era. Most people thought that era was a success but I was completely on the flip side with that one. I had my doubts fairly early in his tenure but I knew the program would go nowhere under him after his 3rd year when he went 0-8 in the conference which should have been the year that the program was ready to take off. If enough people were able to rate and perhaps even be able to have my Fire Joe Glenn topic removed that wouldn't have looked quite as logical looking back at it. I had people call me crazy accusing me with of having many screws lose for even having mentioned it. People were saying, "who could we get that would have been better". I was the nut, the guy that had absolutely no idea what he was talking about. That was after finishing with a conference record of 6-22. Guys like Yoteforever with no vision just couldn't see any way why USD should fire him. He would have had a lifetime contract if it was up to him and many other people on this board. I mean afterall he was Mr. USD, the guy that loved the U more than any other person. Problem was, he wasn't winning and that doesn't cut it even if Jesus were the head coach. I had the foresight at that time to realize that USD needed to go in a different direction. How many people that used to say that we would be crazy to fire Glenn, if we had the choice, would fire Nielson if Glenn expressed a desire to come back. Who knows if USD told him to retire or if he did it 100% on their own but it was not working. Same goes for Joey James or maybe even Dave Boots. Dave was a good coach but I think it was time for him to move on and a change needed to be made. He realized that same thing and stepped aside.
People are so reluctant to change. When Ryan Saeger was the quarterback I would say about half the fan base was ok with that. The thing about athletics is that everyone should have to fight for their position and every program should always be looking at ways to improve. Kai Henry is currently a good running back. I think it could be debated how good. Maybe 3rd best back in the conference, maybe 10th best who knows. I don't think he is so good that one of the incoming freshman couldn't just take the job and hold it for the next 4 years. I am not saying just bench everyone at the drop of a hat but athletics don't always follow the same rules as other things in life. For a coach or a player nothing is even guaranteed and they should always be having to prove themselves that they are the best at what they do.
Can someone please show me my Fire Smith, Fire Nielson or Fire Plitzuweit threads. I am still on the fence with Nielson turning USD into a true national title contender but he is at worst a solid coach. I challenge people to think as a realistic visionary. The future is here with Craig and Dawn and IMO the jury is still out on Nielson.
Even if a particular poster doesn't really like my posts, can't you at least try to appreciate a different perspective.
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Post by elcoyote on Feb 13, 2018 20:39:34 GMT -6
Well that is about the most narcissistic, look-at-me-I'm-wonderful-and-smarter-than-everyone-else rant ever.
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Post by Cousin Eddie on Feb 13, 2018 21:10:09 GMT -6
When it comes to determining whether someone you know is a narcissist, most people make it more complicated than it needs to be. I use the duck test—that is, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it probably is a duck. There are no physical blood tests, MRIs, or exact determinations that can identify narcissism. Even therapists have to go on their observations of the behavior, attitudes, and reactions that a person presents to determine narcissism.
What makes it simple is the fact that we know exactly what a narcissist looks like. Below, I've listed all the symptoms and behaviors you should look for. Keep in mind that not all of these have to be present to make a determination of narcissism. According to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, which therapists use as a guide, a person needs to exhibit only 55 percent of the identified characteristics to be considered narcissistic. The list I've made here is descriptive, so you can get a more in-depth picture of a narcissist’s common behaviors.
1. Superiority and entitlement
The world of the narcissist is all about good/bad, superior/inferior, and right/wrong. There is a definite hierarchy, with the narcissist at the top—which is the only place he feels safe. Narcissists have to be the best, the most right, and the most competent; do everything their way; own everything; and control everyone. Interestingly enough, narcissists can also get that superior feeling by being the worst; the most wrong; or the most ill, upset, or injured for a period of time. Then they feel entitled to receive soothing concern and recompense and even the right to hurt you or demand apologies to “make things even.”
2. Exaggerated need for attention and validation
Narcissists need constant attention—even following you around the house, asking you to find things, or constantly saying something to grab your attention. Validation for a narcissist counts only if it comes from others. Even then, it doesn’t count for much. A narcissist’s need for validation is like a funnel. You pour in positive, supportive words, and they just flow out the other end and are gone. No matter how much you tell narcissists you love them, admire them, or approve of them, they never feel it’s enough—because deep down they don’t believe anyone can love them. Despite all their self-absorbed, grandiose bragging, narcissists are actually very insecure and fearful of not measuring up. They constantly try to elicit praise and approval from others to shore up their fragile egos, but no matter how much they’re given, they always want more.
3. Perfectionism
Narcissists have an extremely high need for everything to be perfect. They believe they should be perfect, you should be perfect, events should happen exactly as expected, and life should play out precisely as they envision it. This is an excruciatingly impossible demand, which results in the narcissist feeling dissatisfied and miserable much of the time. The demand for perfection leads the narcissist to complain and be constantly dissatisfied.
4. Great need for control
Since narcissists are continually disappointed with the imperfect way life unfolds, they want to do as much as possible to control it and mold it to their liking. They want and demand to be in control, and their sense of entitlement makes it seem logical to them that they should be in control—of everything. Narcissists always have a story line in mind about what each “character” in their interaction should be saying and doing. When you don’t behave as expected, they become quite upset and unsettled. They don’t know what to expect next, because you’re off script. They demand that you say and do exactly what they have in mind so they can reach their desired conclusion. You are a character in their internal play, not a real person with your own thoughts and feelings.
5. Lack of responsibility—blaming and deflecting
Although narcissists want to be in control, they never want to be responsible for the results—unless, of course, everything goes exactly their way and their desired result occurs. When things don’t go according to their plan or they feel criticized or less than perfect, the narcissist places all the blame and responsibility on you. It has to be someone else’s fault. Sometimes that blame is generalized—all police, all bosses, all teachers, all Democrats, and so on. At other times the narcissist picks a particular person or rule to blame—his mother, the judge, or laws that limit what he wants to do. Most often, however, the narcissist blames the one person who is the most emotionally close, most attached, loyal, and loving in his life—you. To maintain the façade of perfection, narcissists always have to blame someone or something else. You are the safest person to blame, because you are least likely to leave or reject him.
6. Lack of boundaries
Narcissists can’t accurately see where they end and you begin. They are a lot like 2-year-olds. They believe that everything belongs to them, everyone thinks and feels the same as they do, and everyone wants the same things they do. They are shocked and highly insulted to be told no. If a narcissist wants something from you, he’ll go to great lengths to figure out how to get it through persistence, cajoling, demanding, rejecting, or pouting.
7. Lack of empathy
Narcissists have very little ability to empathize with others. They tend to be selfish and self-involved and are usually unable to understand what other people are feeling. Narcissists expect others to think and feel the same as they do and seldom give any thought to how others feel. They are also rarely apologetic, remorseful, or guilty.
But narcissists are highly attuned to perceived threats, anger, and rejection from others. At the same time, they are nearly blind to the other feelings of the people around them. They frequently misread subtle facial expressions and are typically biased toward interpreting facial expressions as negative. Unless you are acting out your emotions dramatically, the narcissist won’t accurately perceive what you’re feeling. Even saying “I’m sorry” or “I love you” when the narcissist is on edge and angry can backfire. He won’t believe you and may even misperceive your comment as an attack.
In addition, if your words and expressions aren’t congruent, the narcissist will likely respond erroneously. This is why narcissists often misinterpret sarcasm as actual agreement or joking from others as a personal attack. Their lack of ability to correctly read body language is one reason narcissists are deficiently empathetic to your feelings. They don’t see them, they don’t interpret them correctly, and overall they don’t believe you feel any differently than they do.
Narcissists also lack an understanding about the nature of feelings. They don’t understand how their feelings occur. They think their feelings are caused by someone or something outside of themselves. They don’t realize that their feelings are caused by their own biochemistry, thoughts, and interpretations. In a nutshell, narcissists always think you cause their feelings—especially the negative ones. They conclude that because you didn’t follow their plan or because you made them feel vulnerable, you are to blame.
This lack of empathy makes true relationships and emotional connection with narcissists difficult or impossible. They just don’t notice what anyone else is feeling.
8. Emotional reasoning
You’ve probably made the mistake of trying to reason and use logic with the narcissist to get him to understand the painful effect his behaviors have on you. You think that if he understands how much his behavior hurt you, he’ll change. Your explanations, however, don’t make sense to the narcissist, who only seems able to be aware of his own thoughts and feelings. Although narcissists may say they understand, they honestly don’t.
Therefore, narcissists make most of their decisions based on how they feel about something. They simply must have that red sports car, based entirely on how they feel driving it, not by whether it is a good choice to make for the family or for the budget. If they’re bored or depressed, they want to move or end the relationship or start a new business. They always look to something or someone outside themselves to solve their feelings and needs. They expect you to go along with their “solutions,” and they react with irritation and resentment if you don’t.
9. Splitting
The narcissist’s personality is split into good and bad parts, and they also split everything in their relationships into good and bad. Any negative thoughts or behaviors are blamed on you or others, whereas they take credit for everything that is positive and good. They deny their negative words and actions while continually accusing you of disapproving.
They also remember things as completely good and wonderful or as bad and horrible. They can’t seem to mix these two constructs:
Marty labeled the whole vacation ruined and the worst ever because the hotel room didn’t meet his expectations and the weather wasn’t perfect. Bob was blamed for 20 years because he wasn’t there when his wife had their first child even though he was stranded in Chicago in a snowstorm. Marie’s husband dismissed her concerns about the $30,000 cost for the new landscaping because he loved it.
Narcissists aren’t able to see, feel, or remember both the positive and the negative in a situation. They can deal with only one perspective at a time—theirs.
10. Fear
The narcissist’s entire life is motivated and energized by fear. Most narcissists’ fears are deeply buried and repressed. They’re constantly afraid of being ridiculed, rejected, or wrong. They may have fears about germs, about losing all their money, about being emotionally or physically attacked, about being seen as bad or inadequate, or about being abandoned. This makes it difficult and sometimes impossible for the narcissist to trust anyone else.
In fact, the closer your relationship becomes, the less he will trust you. Narcissists fear any true intimacy or vulnerability because they’re afraid you’ll see their imperfections and judge or reject them. No amount of reassurance seems to make a difference, because narcissists deeply hate and reject their own shameful imperfections. Narcissists never seem to develop trust in the love of others, and they continually test you with worse and worse behaviors to try to find your breaking point. Their gripping fear of being “found out” or abandoned never seems to dissipate.
11. Anxiety
Anxiety is an ongoing, vague feeling that something bad is happening or about to happen. Some narcissists show their anxiety by talking constantly about the doom that is about to happen, while some hide and repress their anxiety. But most narcissists project their anxiety onto their closest loved ones, accusing them of being negative, unsupportive, mentally ill, not putting them first, not responding to their needs, or being selfish. All this is designed to transfer anxiety to the loved one in an attempt to not feel it themselves. As you feel worse and worse, the narcissist feels better and better. In fact he feels stronger and more superior as you feel your anxiety and depression grow.
12. Shame
Narcissists don’t feel much guilt because they think they are always right, and they don’t believe their behaviors really affect anyone else. But they harbor a lot of shame. Shame is the belief that there is something deeply and permanently wrong or bad about who you are. Buried in a deeply repressed part of the narcissist are all the insecurities, fears, and rejected traits that he is constantly on guard to hide from everyone, including himself. The narcissist is acutely ashamed of all these rejected thoughts and feelings. For example, I had one narcissistic client who was into skydiving and other intense risk-taking behaviors tell me that he never felt fear. “Fear,” he said, “was evil.” He was clearly on a crusade to defeat it.
Keeping his vulnerabilities hidden is essential to the narcissist’s pretend self-esteem or false self. Ultimately, however, this makes it impossible for them to be completely real and transparent.
13. An inability to be truly vulnerable
Because of their inability to understand feelings, their lack of empathy, and constant need for self-protection, narcissists can’t truly love or connect emotionally with other people. They cannot look at the world from anyone else’s perspective. They’re essentially emotionally blind and alone. This makes them emotionally needy. When one relationship is no longer satisfying, they often overlap relationships or start a new one as soon as possible. They desperately want someone to feel their pain, to sympathize with them, and make everything just as they want it to be. But they have little ability to respond to your pain or fear or even your day-to-day need for care and sympathy.
14. An inability to communicate or work as part of a team
Thoughtful, cooperative behaviors require a real understanding of each other’s feelings. How will the other person feel? Will this action make both of us happy? How will this affect our relationship? These are questions that narcissists don’t have the capacity or the motivation to think about. Don’t expect the narcissist to understand your feelings, give in, or give up anything he wants for your benefit; it’s useless.
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Post by sdyotefan on Feb 13, 2018 22:23:25 GMT -6
Is there a timetable on this discussion and then the votes tallied or can it go on forever?? Just curious...
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Post by Coyote Fan on Feb 13, 2018 23:27:13 GMT -6
CE - I am still waiting for your posts in response to some of my encouraging posts in the basketball thread but I have a feeling that you are incapable of that. Where are those post by the way. CE if you were in charge of the athletic department we would have a bunch of choir boys on the roster and would be in last place every year. You have no vision and if it were up to you USD would still be D2. You know you were wrong about Glenn and I am three steps ahead of you in all things that take thought. Usually when people lose an argument they result to trying to change a topic, result to personal attacking and so forth which is exactly what you do.
I would love to go head to head with you in picking MVFC games or picking Summit games or whatever but you will not go out on a limb. Go back to your RV and have another beer.
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Post by kiyoat on Feb 14, 2018 4:06:06 GMT -6
^^^ manual downvote: *click*
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Post by canislatrans on Feb 14, 2018 7:01:51 GMT -6
Yea for Upvote/Downvote Yea for thinking about USD, the program, and other readers before posting. (need work myself) Yea for posting more to drown out those who don't think about this audience before posting.
Nay for false choice voting options: "No, I don't understand the constitution and want to claim free speech." What is that?
Nay for banning Coyote Fan.
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Post by Yotes on Feb 14, 2018 7:53:42 GMT -6
I think a downvote feature is the answer. Especially if enough downvotes automatically hides the post from public view, requiring one to click on the downvoted post to read its content.
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