|
Post by kiyoat on Nov 11, 2021 8:58:45 GMT -6
... Going rogue and trying to find a conference by ourselves is going to tank casual fan interest and in turn finances. hammer-meet-nail. Exactly. I mean, we don't even have to speculate. It literally already happened. We went from four years of an XDSU-less NCC to one shitty Independent year, playing teams like Missouri S&T and Southern Oregon, to two years in the Great West. I'm sure our administration has zero desire to "go rogue" at this point in time.
|
|
|
Post by Yotes on Nov 11, 2021 10:19:29 GMT -6
I understand learning from history and "keeping the family together", but I would be tremendously disappointed to be a fan in the current Group of 5 FBS landscape. There is so little to play for. I look at Conference USA as the only existing FBS conference that may accept us. Last year UAB fought hard, won the Conference USA championship, and was rewarded with a bowl game against 2-8 South Carolina (which was cancelled, because the entire season was so messed up). The year before that Florida Atlantic got rewarded with a date against unranked SMU in the prestigious Boca Raton Bowl.
I wish the Power 5 (or 4?) would break off to create 3 divisions of football, but I don't see any incentive for them to do so. They already have their own exclusive arrangement that no one can break into (see: #2 Cincinnati being left out). If we could move up and also be eligible to compete for a championship then I would be on board. If all we ever have to look forward to are meaningless games against teams we already play, then I'm against it.
At the end of the day, I think the debate is a non-starter. We are so far removed geographically from the Group of 5 that the only way we are moving up is if a collection of FCS schools in our region start their own FBS conference, and that seems implausible to me.
|
|
|
Post by Coyote Fan on Nov 12, 2021 1:18:22 GMT -6
NDSU and SDSU want to move up and leave the rest of the conference behind. That is why I think SD needs to do what is best for themselves. Whatever that is it is but SD needs to be forward thinking not reactive. They can't assume that they will always be attached to the hip of SDSU. What are you basing that assumption on? Have you read somewhere that they're looking for invitations? They know they're right where they should be. If for some reason they announce they're looking to move up, we better figure out a way to get that invitation as well. That is what's best for USD. Keep the rivalries together. It was a mistake not moving up to D1 when state did 20 years ago, we were left behind and are still trying to catch up in a lot of ways. Going rogue and trying to find a conference by ourselves is going to tank casual fan interest and in turn finances. I haven't heard anything official other than chatter on their respective boards. The writing is on the wall already with James Madison and Sam Houston. Don't think for a minute that the forward thinking schools are not taking notice. I am just tired of SD always being in the shadow of SDSU by their own choice.
|
|
|
Post by fightsd on Nov 12, 2021 7:41:19 GMT -6
What are you basing that assumption on? Have you read somewhere that they're looking for invitations? They know they're right where they should be. If for some reason they announce they're looking to move up, we better figure out a way to get that invitation as well. That is what's best for USD. Keep the rivalries together. It was a mistake not moving up to D1 when state did 20 years ago, we were left behind and are still trying to catch up in a lot of ways. Going rogue and trying to find a conference by ourselves is going to tank casual fan interest and in turn finances. I haven't heard anything official other than chatter on their respective boards. The writing is on the wall already with James Madison and Sam Houston. Don't think for a minute that the forward thinking schools are not taking notice. I am just tired of SD always being in the shadow of SDSU by their own choice. If we were in Texas or Florida or the Carolinas or something, the 4 Dakota schools would probably be a discussion to make the jump. Geographically, it just doesn't make sense for any of us to be looking for a new conference unless all of us are looking for a new conference. Even NDSU knows they're better off being the biggest dog in the MVFC playing 3/4 rivalry games a year than accepting a MAC invite. Maybe if the rest of the Dakota schools were invited it would be a consideration. Otherwise, outside of like the Big 10 or Big 12, who would NDSU or SDSU want to join? I agree I don't like being in SDSUs shadow, but we're both better off together
|
|
|
Post by Yote 53 on Nov 12, 2021 10:34:06 GMT -6
Many NDSU fans are very antsy to make the move and there has been some smoke out of Fargo that something may be in motion.
I've not heard anything out of SDSU other than if NDSU does it they should consider it.
Another big thing for SDSU to deal with, actually both our schools, is the SLT in Sioux Falls. That's kind of a big deal in the state now to a lot of fans and money people. I don't see either SD school leaving that unless it's a major invite, like the Mountain West.
More likely to happen, and hopefully we've all learned from history, is if we move up we do it together forming a new conference with some combination of Big Sky/MVFC schools. A Dakotas, Montanas, Idahos centric western conference makes some sense. As does teaming up with the Valley public schools.
I think the popular consensus is that whatever the second level of football looks like in the future that's where we need to be.
|
|
|
Post by Yotes on Nov 12, 2021 18:31:00 GMT -6
I haven't heard anything official other than chatter on their respective boards. The writing is on the wall already with James Madison and Sam Houston. Don't think for a minute that the forward thinking schools are not taking notice. I am just tired of SD always being in the shadow of SDSU by their own choice. If we were in Texas or Florida or the Carolinas or something, the 4 Dakota schools would probably be a discussion to make the jump. Geographically, it just doesn't make sense for any of us to be looking for a new conference unless all of us are looking for a new conference. Even NDSU knows they're better off being the biggest dog in the MVFC playing 3/4 rivalry games a year than accepting a MAC invite. Maybe if the rest of the Dakota schools were invited it would be a consideration. Otherwise, outside of like the Big 10 or Big 12, who would NDSU or SDSU want to join? I agree I don't like being in SDSUs shadow, but we're both better off together It would have to be a new conference, or a horrible geographic fit where all your opponents are in the deep south. The MAC and Mountain West are the closest Group of 5 conferences, and they are both rock solid in their stability. The MAC hasn't gained/lost a full member since 2005, and the Mountain West hasn't moved at all since 2013. Neither have been linked to the current landscape shift either. The AAC is too high on the totem pole to be an option. The Sun Belt only gets as close as Arkansas and already has 16 members lined up. Conference USA is bleeding, but Fargo is over 1,000 miles away from every existing and future member. That covers the existing Group of 5. Zero viable options. NDSU isn't making this trip alone, and they're going to need more than 1 peer to make it feasible.
|
|
|
Post by dakotaboy on Dec 5, 2021 18:05:32 GMT -6
NDSU is not getting an FBS only invite. There are only two schools in the country with a football only arrangement like that, Hawaii and Navy. If the Dakota schools/MVFC schools decide to move up to FBS we should make the move as well. The G5 will be the second level of football and that is where we belong. We've made this mistake once before. Let's not do it again.Some of us Are old enough to remember that mistake has been made twice.
|
|
|
Post by Yotes on Jul 1, 2022 9:07:35 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by fightsd on Jul 6, 2022 6:57:09 GMT -6
I guess I don't really expect this particular move to effect us too much. The most immediate repercussion is the downfall of the PAC12. They won't hold as much weight when talking about the football power conferences. I still think they're way too big to court any FCS programs. EWU always felt like if anybody would make the move up out that way, it'd be them.
|
|
|
Post by kiyoat on Jul 6, 2022 9:38:10 GMT -6
I could see a major domino effect. Clearly geography has just been thrown out the window as a factor for the big money conferences and teams. Nobody wants to move down, only up. Conferences are getting bigger, less regional, and more stratified. I could see an extra tier added:
Super 3 tier: B1G ten SEC ACC (cannibalize best from PAC12 and BigXII)
Power 4 tier PAC 12 (cannibalize western G-5 teams) Big XII (cannibalize midwest/plains/texas G-5 teams) AAC (cannibalize eastern teams) C-USA (cannibalize eastern teams)
Group of 3 tier Mountain West (add best western FCS teams) Sun Belt (add best southern FCS teams) MAC (add best midwest FCS teams)
FCS tier smaller and weaker, with best teams moving up
In this scenario, the best Big Sky teams would move up to the Mountain West, and the best MVFC teams probably go to the MAC. The "Group of" tier would be watered down, but I think it would be where the Dakota 4 would belong (and would be competitive in)
(You could switch lots of these conferences up or down a tier, it just depends on which of them is more aggressive and successful in cannibalizing.)
|
|
|
Post by Yotes on Jul 6, 2022 10:39:11 GMT -6
Kiyoat's scenario is along the lines of what I was thinking. The Big Ten and SEC are not done poaching yet, and the ACC/Big 12/Pac 12 are going to do whatever they can to continue existing. That's going to mean pilfering the G5 ranks, who in turn are surely to look toward the FCS to refill their ranks.
What's different this time is we may have the Mountain West and MAC needing to make moves. The Mountain West has avoided the realignment noise the past 10 years, and the MAC basically has not changed since the 90s, which has insulated the Big Sky and MVFC from the craziness. I'm thinking this time around the realignment mania is going to be much closer to our front door.
So hard to tell at this point what will happen. At this point you could tell me Oregon is in the SEC and I wouldn't bat an eye. Eagerly awaiting these major moves so we can talk about the next ones.
|
|
|
Post by Yote 53 on Jul 7, 2022 8:39:41 GMT -6
I could see a major domino effect. Clearly geography has just been thrown out the window as a factor for the big money conferences and teams. Nobody wants to move down, only up. Conferences are getting bigger, less regional, and more stratified. I could see an extra tier added: Super 3 tier:B1G ten SEC ACC (cannibalize best from PAC12 and BigXII) Power 4 tierPAC 12 (cannibalize western G-5 teams) Big XII (cannibalize midwest/plains/texas G-5 teams) AAC (cannibalize eastern teams) C-USA (cannibalize eastern teams) Group of 3 tierMountain West (add best western FCS teams) Sun Belt (add best southern FCS teams) MAC (add best midwest FCS teams) FCS tiersmaller and weaker, with best teams moving up In this scenario, the best Big Sky teams would move up to the Mountain West, and the best MVFC teams probably go to the MAC. The "Group of" tier would be watered down, but I think it would be where the Dakota 4 would belong (and would be competitive in) (You could switch lots of these conferences up or down a tier, it just depends on which of them is more aggressive and successful in cannibalizing.) I just don't see the ACC/PAC/B12 catching up to the other two. The ACC is going to get gutted by the SEC and the BIG may still take 1 or 2 more from the PAC. Neither wants any of the remaining Big 12 teams or they would have been picked up by now. I agree with your stratification with a few adjustments, one of them being CUSA. That conference is a shell of itself and probably the worst in all G5 now. Super 2 - BIG & SEC Power 3 - ACC, Big 12, PAC Group of 4 - Sun Belt, MAC, Mountain West, CUSA FCS USD's goal, along with the other Dakota schools, should be the Group of 4 in the MAC or Mountain West. CUSA expansion recently has focused on the South along with the Sun Belt being a southern conference so I don't consider those viable options for USD.
|
|