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Post by Coyote Fan on Feb 8, 2015 13:42:10 GMT -6
I don't think we can use talent as an excuse as to why this team has been in a slump. The same talent was playing very well earlier in the conference season. Maybe Smith just had them severely over achieving earlier in the year who knows. I don't think the talent is great nor do I think the talent is horrible. The talent just lies with the guards on this team and not so much with the bigs. I do think there is opportunity to improve the players that the Yotes can bring to the table. Next year I think without a doubt the bigs will be better but a good argument can also be made that the guards won't be as good next year.
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Post by Yotes on Feb 8, 2015 14:04:28 GMT -6
If our play underneath improves then we won't necessarily need the same level of play from our guards. Not having Bos and Larson will be a loss for sure, but if we don't have to live and die by those two guards we will also be in a much better situation.
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Post by Cousin Eddie on Feb 8, 2015 15:12:41 GMT -6
I would hesitate to call Robertson terrible. He has limitations with his build of course, but terrible no. Hyperbole. But, you are right. Unnecessary overstatement.
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Post by miniravo on Feb 8, 2015 17:00:54 GMT -6
I really do not understand the talent comments. It seems depending on what the team does, determine if we have talent or not. When we took Creighton to the wire, we were a ‘talented group of individuals who played well as a team’. Have they somehow lost that talent. We keep a majority of our scoring, and yes, we gave up a bit of height at the 5 spot, but everyone here was preaching the new recruits and what they brought to the table. Do they no longer have that ability? You also talk about depth, you have guys who can play, who proved they can play last year, who now have played less than any other individual on the team. I don’t know what is going on with Thoseby, but I do believe we could use an athletic 6’5” guard who averaged 8 points a game in 16 mins a game last year. What has happened there? The team is good, just misguided. Our two leaders are shooting 34% and 33% in conference. both averaging about 11 playing 34 minutes a game. Casey is playing over double the minutes he was last year, and averaging about 3 points more per game. I can go down the line and point out the differences. There is no way that this team, full of talented sophomores and juniors, should be playing like this. USD had all the upside in the world with a team full of youth and potential for the future. I don’t understand this at all.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2015 17:33:07 GMT -6
Lots of weird comments here. The Summit League is down this year. That's why NDSU and SDSU are able to stay close to the top this year. Same with USD there for a bit.
What kills your team is that USD basically did nothing on the recruiting trail the year Joey was there. What was he supposed to tell recruits? They had no idea where they were going. I think it was probably worth the wait for Smith but it's going to take an extra year for him to turn things around because there's no young recruits ready to step in and help. ust my opinion.
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Post by Yotes on Feb 8, 2015 17:54:35 GMT -6
Gruis and Flack, essentially our entire inside presence last year, were replaced with James Hunter. I ask anyone critical of this team, do you really believe he fills the hole left by either of those players? Let alone both of them? Flack and Gruis are two incredibly talented players and Hunter came into this season with like 40 total minutes of collegiate basketball to his name. Love that he came to play, no discredit to Hunter (or Robertson), but gaping holes were left unfilled.
Our inside game has to be a distant last-place in the Summit League, and that puts a ton of pressure on our guards. It's pretty easy to shut down a team when it's so one-dimensional. I would guess creative schemes kept us afloat for a while there, but that's just not going to work once opposing coaches have it figured out.
I wouldn't even declare that the sky is falling. We got rocked by the first place team in the league whose won 20+ in a row at home, but I was satisfied with the two games preceding this against WIU and ORU. Let's see how the rest of the season plays out.
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Post by kioatee on Feb 8, 2015 20:06:53 GMT -6
Some of the disrespectful comments some of you make on this board damn right irk me. We have a bunch of guys that give their heart and soul for the University and we are calling them terrible? I get that this is a message board for opinion but cmon man these young men deserve your respect.
My biggest analysis of any of games is that we are jump shooting team and are inconsistent with our jump shot depending on who is guarding us. NDSU is a physical team that gets up and guards very hard. We didn't make shots because we had to work that extra bit harder to create them. NDSU is a lot bigger inside than us and it again confirmed the need for some reinforcements inside. In my opinion yes we need our bigs but we also need some size that can slash and get to the rim. We talk about Thoseby who yes perhaps could get more time but he is a jump shooter. Same with Burnette. I really think we need a couple of legit 6'5 slashers that do a bit of everything. Rebound, guard, get to the rim
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Post by Cousin Eddie on Feb 8, 2015 20:25:37 GMT -6
As I said - "terrible" was a poor choice of words. I deserve to be called out for it.
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ctc2010
Sophomore Member
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Post by ctc2010 on Feb 8, 2015 21:06:27 GMT -6
Keep in mind that NDSU hit 14 3PT shots yesterday when they are only averaging about 7 per game. We hit 2. They got hot. No team will go out and shoot 14-22 from downtown every night. In this case it was one guy going 8-11 by himself. We've won games this year when Casey shoots like that. When guys like that get in a rhythm you really can't do much about it. They'll bounce back.
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Post by yippinloud on Feb 8, 2015 22:01:35 GMT -6
Hmmm, just looked at Coyote Corner from Feb 26 last year when Joey James reportedly referred to Thoseby as a 3 level scorer, tellingly, he got to the charity stripe every 8.2 minutes last year, probably scored as many baskets off the drive as shooting and is still managing to get there every 8.7 minutes this year despite no minutes, Bos and Larsen are both getting there in under every 7 minutes, but no one else is getting there in under every 13 minutes Casey is once in 30, Burnette once in 37, Davis once in 22 - apart from the fact that Thoseby was a productive scorer (see Summit League pts/40 last year - full year and conference play) we are giving away 6- 10 points per game by playing so small consistently, not getting to the rim, less free points and and1's and 10 of the 14 losses have been by 9 points or less....maybe better analysis and objectivity is needed
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Post by golfingyote on Feb 9, 2015 7:53:35 GMT -6
One game and the board loses its mind. This team is who everyone thought it was, a middle of the road team in the summit who happened to have an off night against one of the top2-3 teams in the conference this year. These things happen, espcially considering what happened behind the 3-point line on both ends. What does it mean? nothing really except that Smith must regoup the guys in hurry considering the week ahead. This team can still beat any team in the league on any given night, especially in a tourney setting. SDSUAlum08 was exactly right when describing the "talent" issue with this year's team. Smith does as good as he can with the disaster zone he was left. With the Thoseby ordeal, while he does look much improved defensively, hes still a liability there and I honestly dont trust him to take care of the ball. Basketball is not all about how many points you score per minute. In this system, its about efficiency and how you contribute to the overall system and style of play. Clearly thoseby has been improving in that regard as he has actually seen the floor lately, so theres that at least.
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Post by Cousin Eddie on Feb 9, 2015 10:54:17 GMT -6
One game and the board loses its mind. This team is who everyone thought it was, a middle of the road team in the summit who happened to have an off night against one of the top2-3 teams in the conference this year. These things happen, espcially considering what happened behind the 3-point line on both ends. What does it mean? nothing really except that Smith must regoup the guys in hurry considering the week ahead. This team can still beat any team in the league on any given night, especially in a tourney setting. SDSUAlum08 was exactly right when describing the "talent" issue with this year's team. Smith does as good as he can with the disaster zone he was left. With the Thoseby ordeal, while he does look much improved defensively, hes still a liability there and I honestly dont trust him to take care of the ball. Basketball is not all about how many points you score per minute. In this system, its about efficiency and how you contribute to the overall system and style of play. Clearly thoseby has been improving in that regard as he has actually seen the floor lately, so theres that at least. Really stated well, golfingyote. Over time a team that relies too heavily on its guards will find it harder and harder to win. You can prepare and coach players to defend teams that lack height and that rely on jump-shooting too much. In league play and in tournaments, the more reliable team will always be the team with more height, more length and that plays the best defense. When I referred to talent throughout this thread, I am referring not just to acquired talent (i.e. player development through practice and effort) but also (and probably more so) physical talent. From a physical talent standpoint there is not a logical argument that exists to suggest we are not severely lacking when compared to our peers. Teams that are guard reliant are kind of like Oregon football on offense. They can score a lot of points and when they get hot, watch out! But, if ANYTHING is off, they are bad. When they play a more physical team that has comparable coaching, they are regularly exposed. Alabama is in the hunt every year because (1) they have the most talent and (2) they play great defense. Coaching/recruiting facilitates this, but it is a philosophy that takes time to implement. We can learn to play great defense and play with great effort, but we can't overcome a lack of talent. I don't disagree that we seem to be lacking on the effort in recent weeks, but I think that it is easy to lose effort when things aren't going well and the effort doesn't seem to be paying off. Poor shooting happens. Without height, it is hard to get "easy" buckets inside. We need to win the games that we can, take advantage of other team's misfortunes, get a middle-tier seed in the tournament and hope that we are hot when the ball is tipped.
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Post by golfingyote on Feb 9, 2015 12:54:34 GMT -6
One game and the board loses its mind. This team is who everyone thought it was, a middle of the road team in the summit who happened to have an off night against one of the top2-3 teams in the conference this year. These things happen, espcially considering what happened behind the 3-point line on both ends. What does it mean? nothing really except that Smith must regoup the guys in hurry considering the week ahead. This team can still beat any team in the league on any given night, especially in a tourney setting. SDSUAlum08 was exactly right when describing the "talent" issue with this year's team. Smith does as good as he can with the disaster zone he was left. With the Thoseby ordeal, while he does look much improved defensively, hes still a liability there and I honestly dont trust him to take care of the ball. Basketball is not all about how many points you score per minute. In this system, its about efficiency and how you contribute to the overall system and style of play. Clearly thoseby has been improving in that regard as he has actually seen the floor lately, so theres that at least. Really stated well, golfingyote. Over time a team that relies too heavily on its guards will find it harder and harder to win. You can prepare and coach players to defend teams that lack height and that rely on jump-shooting too much. In league play and in tournaments, the more reliable team will always be the team with more height, more length and that plays the best defense. When I referred to talent throughout this thread, I am referring not just to acquired talent (i.e. player development through practice and effort) but also (and probably more so) physical talent. From a physical talent standpoint there is not a logical argument that exists to suggest we are not severely lacking when compared to our peers. Teams that are guard reliant are kind of like Oregon football on offense. They can score a lot of points and when they get hot, watch out! But, if ANYTHING is off, they are bad. When they play a more physical team that has comparable coaching, they are regularly exposed. Alabama is in the hunt every year because (1) they have the most talent and (2) they play great defense. Coaching/recruiting facilitates this, but it is a philosophy that takes time to implement. We can learn to play great defense and play with great effort, but we can't overcome a lack of talent. I don't disagree that we seem to be lacking on the effort in recent weeks, but I think that it is easy to lose effort when things aren't going well and the effort doesn't seem to be paying off. Poor shooting happens. Without height, it is hard to get "easy" buckets inside. We need to win the games that we can, take advantage of other team's misfortunes, get a middle-tier seed in the tournament and hope that we are hot when the ball is tipped. Great points. Couldnt agree more on our lack of physical talent and ability to get easy buckets when compared to teams in this league. Reading some of the prior posts is just frustrating me as a fan. Without a consistent BIG presence on both ends, Smith is just so so so limited as to what he can do and the style of basketball he can play. At this point in the season, coaches in this league know what they need to do to exploit our obvious weakness. It is honestly nothing against ERob or Hunter, but they are role players or not in the rotation on several teams in the league, or at least the top few teams. I am actually impressed as to the progress both have made, so give them credit for that. I think many of you will be pleasantly surprised by our guards next year when we are able to properly space a floor.
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Post by Charlie on Feb 9, 2015 13:29:40 GMT -6
All things considered, we are miles ahead of where we should be based on talent alone. When a team has to rely on all out effort and outside shooting, there will be night when it is an uphill battle every possession to score. Shots don't fall and the grind of the conference schedule can be grueling. Coach Smith has done a tremendous job with the players he has and those kids need to be commended for how hard they fight when most outsiders basically wrote them off this year as the worst team in the Summit League. A loss like the one on Saturday just plain sucks but the sky is not falling. I'm more interested to see how they rebound at Omaha on Thursday. In my mind, that is more telling about how good a team is as opposed to one lopsided loss to the top team in the league.
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Post by Cousin Eddie on Feb 9, 2015 15:33:36 GMT -6
I think many of you will be pleasantly surprised by our guards next year when we are able to properly space a floor. This x 1,000,000
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