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Post by 88grad on Sept 16, 2016 12:20:57 GMT -6
I'd love to see UND in the same conference - I wanted to see the NCC move up together as a matter of fact.
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Post by siouxfan512 on Sept 16, 2016 12:25:54 GMT -6
I'd love to see UND in the same conference - I wanted to see the NCC move up together as a matter of fact. It makes you wonder how different it all could have been if all Dakota schools had moved up at the same time. Without that delay, would NDSU and SDSU still have been so much more successful? Maybe? Maybe not? It would certainly have changed the recruiting several years back. Maybe it all would have played out the same anyway. I don't like NDSU, but I can't take anything away from what they have done. Damn impressive. |
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Post by Yote 53 on Sept 16, 2016 12:36:07 GMT -6
It would have changed things entirely. NDSU wouldn't have gotten that big lead and been able to ride it to 5 straight titles. SDSU wouldn't have been able to elevate their program to where it is and would have been an FCS also ran just like they were in D2. The SU's recognized a huge void and a need to D1 schools in this area. Full credit, they took it and took advantage of it. Since then the U's have been in catch up mode. I think USD has closed the gap on them and you will see us get to even footing in the next few years. UND, I don't think so. I realize going to the BSC was your only move but I don't think it has helped you guys at all. I was a proponent of USD going to the BSC but now see what a mistake it would have been. We are a much stronger program today for having to go through the struggles we have in the MVFC.
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Post by siouxfan512 on Sept 16, 2016 13:04:48 GMT -6
This feels like the often-claimed-but-makes-no-sense phrase that I don't think UND can score enough points to win. The Yotes can/will put 45+ on the board, but it doesn't appear the Sioux can score 50. (Not unlike the position the Yotes have been in at the end of the season the past few years) I'm thinking 47-27 Yotes. Not trying to pick a battle, just curious why you think USD is going to hang 45+ pts on a team who has given up a combined 35 pts in their last two games? I know Stony Brook doesn't have a good offense, but even Bowling Green only put up 27. I know you guys had a shoot out with Weber, but is USD's offense that potent? Sounds like Streveler has been pretty good, though UND has had success against the option. They dominated Poly last year. I'll be interested to see if they can limit that aspect of the game. I've said it before, I think we will limit Bouma, but I think Streveler will his share of yards. |
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Post by Yote 53 on Sept 16, 2016 13:15:22 GMT -6
What makes you guys think you are going to keep Bouma down? Last time he ventured north of state line he went 94 rushing/80 passing for 174 total.
Yes, USD's offense is that potent this season.
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Post by siouxfan512 on Sept 16, 2016 13:35:28 GMT -6
What makes you guys think you are going to keep Bouma down? Last time he ventured north of state line he went 94 rushing/80 passing for 174 total. Yes, USD's offense is that potent this season. Feeling pretty confident in our rush D, more so than our pass D (though that is starting to improve). Our front 7 are extremely deep, so we get a lot of fresh bodies out there. Any time we have face a good rushing team we have fared pretty well. Last year Wyoming had two really good backs, and they rushed for a combined 29 yards. Granted that team as a whole was pretty terrible. Cal-Poly rushed for 153 yards on us last seasons, mostly during garbage time after the game was out of reach. That was a team that rushed for 4200 yards on the season. This year, SB was held to 62 yards rushing and Bowling Green had 90 yards on 42 attempts. I'm not saying teams can't run on UND, but it won't be easy to do. I don't know enough about Bouma, but UND will certainly focus on stopping the run, that's why I see Streveler getting some yards, if not with his feet, then through the air. Again, I haven't watch USD football, but from what I read here it sounds like Streveler will run the option a bit, and UND has had some success against that. Doesn't mean we will tomorrow, just going off of our defense's recent history. Very interested to see how this game plays out. Definitely nice to have USD back on the schedule. |
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Post by nccyote on Sept 16, 2016 14:21:08 GMT -6
USD is not a traditional option team. We have a pretty extensive QB run game (Power, Iso, QB Read, Sweep) and don't run much true option at all. The whole premise behind what Nielsen and Co. do with this offense is to spread teams out and make defenses account for all 11 players, including the QB in the run game (see Chip Kelly's Oregon teams, not saying we are anything close to that though). Against traditional power run teams like NDSU for example, defenses don't need to worry about the QB in the run game except for bootlegs and play action, etc. When you have more talent thats all well and good. Being able to spread defenses out and still run power, Iso, sweep, etc. like we do makes up for some of the deficiencies that we have on our O-line right now by lightening the box giving our ball carriers some more room to run. Then when teams start to commit more bodies to stopping the run against the spread formations, that opens up the passing game.
Should be an interesting chess match between 2 old coaches that know each other pretty well. Nielsen is an offensive guy, and Bubba has always been a defensive guy. May the best coach and team win
Go Yotes
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Post by siouxfan512 on Sept 16, 2016 14:31:11 GMT -6
USD is not a traditional option team. We have a pretty extensive QB run game (Power, Iso, QB Read, Sweep) and don't run much true option at all. The whole premise behind what Nielsen and Co. do with this offense is to spread teams out and make defenses account for all 11 players, including the QB in the run game (see Chip Kelly's Oregon teams, not saying we are anything close to that though). Against traditional power run teams like NDSU for example, defenses don't need to worry about the QB in the run game except for bootlegs and play action, etc. When you have more talent thats all well and good. Being able to spread defenses out and still run power, Iso, sweep, etc. like we do makes up for some of the deficiencies that we have on our O-line right now by lightening the box giving our ball carriers some more room to run. Then when teams start to commit more bodies to stopping the run against the spread formations, that opens up the passing game. Should be an interesting chess match between 2 old coaches that know each other pretty well. Nielsen is an offensive guy, and Bubba has always been a defensive guy. May the best coach and team win Go Yotes Good information, thanks! Definitely pumped to watch this one. Wish I didn't have to wait until 4 pm to watch though. It is on Fox College Sports though, which is pretty sweet. I'll watch webcasts when that is all that is available, but way better to watch on TV. Best of luck, and enjoy the game. |
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tman28
Freshman Member
Posts: 62 
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Post by tman28 on Sept 16, 2016 15:09:00 GMT -6
Tough game all around, I read the Sioux forum also, and they have fans much like the yotes IMO. This game is hard to pick because the defenses are better than people think, and the offenses have similar strengths/weaknesses as well. UND being 0-2 doesn't mean they shouldn't be the favorite as context means everything. But saying that, USD played a fun game last weekend, to come from behind and win...... 28-24 USD
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Post by thumper76 on Sept 16, 2016 15:09:48 GMT -6
Quick rivalry related question: Why are NDSU and supposedly SDSU so against UND joining the MVFC? I'm not sure I understand why that would be anything but good for both of them. Usually comes down to recruiting... For example, certain Big12 members didn't want to allow TCU in due to fear kids would stay home. Today Houston has a similar scenario, but the conference is in need so UH has a shot at an invite. I don't think the MVFC is in need of growth and doesn't gain a recruiting region and/or revenue so probably not a likely scenario. From by blue and yellow perspective: Here's why the MVFC should not add UND, and it has nothing to do with dislike or ill will. It's just not advantageous for the MVFC to add them. Summit, sure, do it. However, with the MVFC already being unbalanced, it would lead to an even bigger imbalance in the schedule, and leading to a pseudo division set up. When usd was added, the only way to get the eastern teams on board was to allow them to drop one of the western teams off their schedule in a rotation. Which leads to things like last year, where ISUr shared the title with NDSU, because they didn't have to play them. Now you add UND into the mix. It's virtually guaranteed that the eastern teams would not be adding a trip west. So that means they would get to drop two westerns games. And this is why usd fans should be against it as well. USD, SDSU, NDSU, and UNI will never miss each other. However, you would have years where teams like ISUr don't have to play two of NDSU/UNI/SDSU. No matter how you slice it, that makes the autobid and a seed almost a cake walk compared to what the western teams will face. It's certainly won't help any western team make the playoffs. And to add to it, there really isn't an upside to adding them. Honestly, other than the old NCC nostalgia. Sure it's one shorter road trip, but in the end it doesn't add anything for the conference as a whole. Where they stand right now they wouldn't add a stronger team to the conference. As it sits they would be bottom half of the conference. We can afford to lose two members before we need to add another team. And that scenario is very unlikely. And if that happens, we get to go back to a true round robin, which is a preferred in my world. The MVFC isn't a BCS conference trying to get to 16 teams. There is zero need for it. Now, if a YSU goes to the CAA (better geography for them) and MSU goes to the slumbelch, then definitely add UND. As it it's right now we recruit against UND regularly, so that doesn't matter much. But UND football isn't going anywhere, they're in the Big Sky, not going anywhere, and will leap at the opportunity to get in the MVFC whenever it's offered. No reason to add them right now honestly. I just personally don't like an unbalanced conference where 3 of the top 4 programs are all forced to play each other while half of the conference gets to miss two of them. Not a healthy setup IMHO. And as much as you might hate it, right now the top four programs in the valley are NDSU, UNI, SDSU, and ISUr. It's bad enough when you have years like last year when the schedule sends UNI on the road to ISUr, NDSU, and SDSU, while ISUr gets to miss playing NDSU and only plays at SDSU and wins a share of the conference title. No need to make that worse. |
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Post by Yote 53 on Sept 16, 2016 15:17:58 GMT -6
I have to agree with my long eared friend there. Adding UND would create too much imbalance on the western side of the conference. Not in that UND would create the imbalance, because I agree they would probably hover around Mo State for a while until they build their program up, but because another western school would give the eastern schools an excuse to make one less trip west where all the good schools are located. USD WILL be in the top half of the conference before long given the program upgrades, facilities upgrades, FCOA, etc. We're a school on the rise.
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Post by coyote70 on Sept 16, 2016 15:39:34 GMT -6
Thumper, just a question about MVFC scheduling. For the previous two years we didn't have Indiana State on our schedule. This year and next we won't have Mo. State. These two are probably the weakest teams in the conference. Based on what you have stated, can we assume that in the future the Coyotes won't have Youngstown/Ill. State on their schedule?
What you state seems to make sense only if NDSU/SDSU/USD/UNI all have the same conference schedules over a given period of time. To my way of thinking the teams that are the greatest distance from the Dakotas are: Youngstown, Indiana State and Southern Illinois. Next would be Ill. State (but WIU wouldn't like that).
I also wonder exactly what this "agreement" between the western schools and eastern schools spells out.
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Post by thumper76 on Sept 16, 2016 15:57:29 GMT -6
Basically the eastern schools rotate off of a western school for two years. I have no idea what the rotation is, but I do know that there's some goofy quirks in the scheduling that leads to UNI/SDSU playing the other top three at home one year and all on the road the next. This year SDSU has to go to NDSU, UNI, and ISUr. With that conference schedule, SDSU could be better than last year but end with a similar or worse record honestly. The only thing the agreement spells out is that the eastern teams didn't want to add an extra trip to the Dakotas and Iowa when you guys got added. So, since the schedule was going to be unbalanced by adding another member anyways, it was agreed that the eastern teams each got to rotate off of one of those schools every year. I'm not sure how MSU fits into it, but they do. USD had the advantage of having the Summit teams on their side for helping get into the conference as a part of getting them into the Summit. UND doesn't have that leverage anymore that they used to have IMO when they dropped baseball they lost a lot of that. If it came down to a vote that was public I only think that they would get the XDSUs and USD to vote for them in the valley.
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Post by thumper76 on Sept 16, 2016 15:59:17 GMT -6
I have to agree with my long eared friend there. Adding UND would create too much imbalance on the western side of the conference. Not in that UND would create the imbalance, because I agree they would probably hover around Mo State for a while until they build their program up, but because another western school would give the eastern schools an excuse to make one less trip west where all the good schools are located. USD WILL be in the top half of the conference before long given the program upgrades, facilities upgrades, FCOA, etc. We're a school on the rise. And I do agree, you guys seem to be on the upswing, and if that trend continues, that western set up would be absolutely brutal for everybody if UND were added. I love a tough conference, but letting half of the conference have a greatly weaker schedule is not a winning recipe. |
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Post by thumper76 on Sept 16, 2016 16:01:49 GMT -6
But on topic I think this is going to be a close game. UND will likely give your offense fits and it's going to be a low scoring game. Hope you guys pull it out for the Valley, but we shall see what happens. UND has a saltier defense than I see many here giving them credit for.
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