The Big 2 Sports - The First 5 Conference Years

[Coyote Fan]

I am not sure if anyone is aware of this but we have kind of a disturbing trend that makes up the Coyotes first 5 years in each the Summit League and Missouri Valley Football Conference. This is why I can get cranky about Coyote sports sometimes. The two leagues were desired conferences by USD to get into and USD's peers make up many of the teams in those conferences. If the title doesn't give it away I am talking about Men's Basketball and Football. Over the first 10 years combined in these two leagues the Coyotes have a winning record in 1 out of those 10 opportunities in Conference games. The highest finish is tied for 4th but tie breakers put the Coyotes at 5th meaning the Yotes have never had a top half finish in any of the seasons they have been a part of these two conferences.

Here is the breakdown of each.

Football and this is assuming a loss to NDSU on saturday.

0-8
3-5
0-8
3-5
3-5

Total of 9-31 for a winning percentage of .290

This is the first 5 years in basketball

5-13
5-11
6-8
10-8
5-11

Total of 31-51 for a .378 winning percentage

Total combined record is 40-82 for a winning percentage of .327

If you compare this to what SDSU (and also NDSU) did in their first 5 years in these conferences there is no comparison. They would probably be above .500 and that is after a bad first couple of years in the Summit. So we can take a look at this and lay the blame on me for bringing this up and being negative told that I am purposely being negative in this thread or we can discuss what has gone wrong and why we are putting these types of numbers up in the two most important sports on campus. In neither of these Leagues did we come right from D2 and land in these destination conferences. There were multiple years to get used to the transition. These are Wow numbers in my mind. Even Omaha who is supposed to be behind the Coyotes in the pecking order have surpassed the Coyotes in basketball and have also won 3 of the last 4 head to head. They got their first winning record in about their 3rd try. Their football program has as many upper division finishes as the Coyotes program in the MVFC in five fewer tries. I wonder what the overall winning percentage will be in the next 5 years of the big 2 Coyote Sports.

[yoteforever]

Seriously go be a Jacks fan. Or a Bison fan. Or Augie or Sioux Falls or hell I don't know...anywhere but here. You are thee most negative person I've ever been around. Your posts are like novels. And quite frankly you're boring. Go post anywhere but here.

Then you can complain about ticket prices, or boosters that get better seats than you. Or complain about Stig, or AJ, or TJ.

[sdyotefan]

Another periodic reminder to everyone--Don't read or respond to cf posts!! He's a narcissist and has a poor knowledge of sports. It's been a much better experience for me the last several months since I've banished him from my list of posters to read!

[Yotes]

Don't even have to read your posts at this point. Someone put it pretty well when they said the basketball team could win the Summit and end up falling just short of the sweet 16 and you would bitch about the loss.

[Coyote Fan]

This is the typical response that I expected. Why don't you actually intelligently respond to the topic and not the poster. Haven't we actually had this discussion before. Talk about the topics not who started the topics. I find it amazing that people hate someone that someone points out the facts despite them being negative because they are reality. Most people hate that I point this stuff out more than they hate the actual losing. I wonder if anyone in the athletic department that has an important job even realizes these deficiencies. It wouldn't surprise me if no one even bothers to realize. Those that don't learn from history are bound to repeat it.

My suggestion for anyone that wants to take up a beef with me is to PM me if that is what you want to do. This is not the time or place to take about individual posters. This is a relevant topic that IMO deserves discussion but if you don't like it don't reply to it. We are quite a bit behind our peers when it comes to these two vital sports. There isn't much doubt about that. USD isn't doing enough to put together competitive teams in either sport at this point. Results are what I care about. The results aren't there. Of course the hype is there but the results are not.

[Coyote Fan]

Nov 15, 2016 22:49:04 GMT -6 yoteforever said:

Seriously go be a Jacks fan. Or a Bison fan. Or Augie or Sioux Falls or hell I don't know...anywhere but here. You are thee most negative person I've ever been around. Your posts are like novels. And quite frankly you're boring. Go post anywhere but here.

Then you can complain about ticket prices, or boosters that get better seats than you. Or complain about Stig, or AJ, or TJ.

What is interesting about this is that ironically the Jacks fans do complain about 10 times more about Stig then we do about any of our coaches. Ironically he has a much better record then any of our football coaches. and more ironically as a fan base they complain alot more than we do, and so does NDSU. Isn't it kind of funny that both programs have a lot more success then we do. Maybe it is because they have fan bases that care, and care when they don't have success which is something at USD that we don't have nor do we care about. If one poster complains about losing everyone comes together and chastises that kind of poster. It is rather funny actually.

It is kind of funny that I was basically on the fire Glenn bandwagon pretty much alone and every one did nothing but complain that I felt that way. Now that Glenn is gone people start to realize maybe he wasn't the greatest after all and complain that the talent and/or depth is currently sup par. Glenn was supposed to be the guy that was building that talent and depth. Now everyone is saying that we are much better off then we were before. What those same people didn't have was the ability to see that when it was actually happening. It's a foreign word called foreshadowing. Now everyone is so sure that coach Smith is on the right track. Honestly I don't know if he is on the right track or not. There is just as much that has happened up to this point to believe he is not on the right track. So now everyone is pretty much 99% certain that the program is on the right track and that is with no real results oriented evidence that things are heading in the right direction. I think there is a 50% chance that Smith is the guy and IMO 50% chance that he is not the guy. What bothers me is that almost no one looks at this objectively. Everyone looks at it through the red colored Coyote glasses. I always look at it like this. Take those Coyote glasses off for just a minute and take a step back and look at things how others are looking at the program. Almost no one outside of Vermillion is respecting the Coyotes much at all. They are picked very low in the league for another year. That is because the talent on this team is unproven and the coach on this team is unproven. It's all pretty much USD fan initiated hype at this point.

Don't confuse this for me not being pro Coyote because I am and my attendance has proven it this year but on the other hand I am also pro objectivity and when I see things I don't like I am going to say it but when I see things I do like I am just as equally positive. I am not going to allow my personal feelings for the Coyotes cloud my brain into not looking at things like a neutral observer would. When I was at the SCSC I didn't see anything from the Men's team that made me go "wow this is a team to look out for". As I was saying before I reserve the right to change my mind and may going forward but a lot more is unproven then is proven about the program. When I watched the Women's game I was pretty much in awe of how hard those girls played and how well it appeared they were being coached by Dawn. Does that mean the Coyotes are going to win the Summit, or course not. I just saw a team that seems to have their base under them. I saw a team if they continue the habits I observed are at some point going to be a force to be reckoned with. For people that think I am negative that is fine but I am no more negative than what the results bare out that I should be. I have outlined the poor results in the initial post. Some may choose to bury it under the rug and not want to talk about it but if those types of things are not talked about and not recognized than how are any steps supposed to be taken to remedy it, that is unless people like to have those types of results year after year.

Some one pointed out that if the Coyotes went to the NCAA tourney and barely lost out on going to the sweet 16 than I would probably find fault with it. If that was close to having actually had happened I would love to be in a position to have to react to it. My overall impression would be positive and like everyone else I would probably be initially disappointed with losing that final game for a few hours but who wouldn't. Or course I would be happy with that type of season. Why don't some of you go to the Women's basketball thread and complain about my comments over if you are able to complain about anything that is. I have been positive about the football program for quite awhile this year but this season has an all too familiar feel to it as so many others have.

[Cousin Eddie]

For the love of God, please ban this guy. This horse crap has gone on long enough. We have new and interesting people joining this board everyday and yet the mods on here let this troll hang around because of some ridiculous notion of free speech or whatever. Despite his filth, we do have all of our sports on the upswing. Why drag down the upward momentum with this negativity. He brings NOTHING to the table. Please remove this cancer. I promise we have lost FAR more members of this board because of him than we have EVER gained.

If Bisonville can ban lakesbison, I am pretty sure this board can easily ban [not a]coyotefan.

[gopheryote]

Yes, yes. I'm very, very, very mad about records from 4 or 5 years ago. Especially since we have had 100% turnover in coaching staffs and players since then... Urrrrg. Look how mad I am. Urrrg.

[golfingyote]

Nov 15, 2016 23:17:43 GMT -6 Coyote Fan said:

This is the typical response that I expected. Why don't you actually intelligently respond to the topic and not the poster. Haven't we actually had this discussion before. Talk about the topics not who started the topics. I find it amazing that people hate someone that someone points out the facts despite them being negative because they are reality. Most people hate that I point this stuff out more than they hate the actual losing. I wonder if anyone in the athletic department that has an important job even realizes these deficiencies. It wouldn't surprise me if no one even bothers to realize. Those that don't learn from history are bound to repeat it.

You say the dumbest shit. So We should fire a coach in MBB and FB every 1-2 years based on record alone? Our MBB program is lightyears ahead of where it was 3 years ago, and based on the current trend, I would expect to say the same for football in 2 years. You come across as completely oblivious as to what it actually takes to build a program at this level.

[Yote 53]

Everybody settle down. This is a place for discussion whether it is a topic you like or not. If you don't like the subject don't read it and don't respond to it. If you don't agree you can voice your disagreement. After all, this is what message boards are for, discussion, otherwise there would be no point in coming here.

CF, I have a very good explanation for our results, actually two good ones.

First, we are fighting a much steeper uphill battle than the XDSU's. Sure they went first and "blazed a trail" but in the wake of that trail the road has been torn up and roadblocks set up everywhere. When the XDSU's first entered the Great West and the Summit those conferences were not very established or were in flux. Frankly, the conferences weren't as established and tough. USD had to walk into the toughest FCS football conference in the country with a team on a NC tear and perennial NC contenders. The Summit was much, much more established when USD entered than when the XDSU's did as well. To add to that, we have had to fight for recruiting turf against two schools that had time to set up shop in this territory. By getting to the well first, the XDSU's got the jump in establishing their turf and it has made it much, much harder for USD to gain grounds in both recruiting and fan base. They were like Sooners in Land Rush of 1889. When USD showed up to D1 they found the lands in this area had already been staked off.

Second, to add to the uphill battle we're already fighting both sports have had complete coaching turnovers. In basketball we had to replace a long time, successful head coach. Not only that but there was a wasted year in there because of his surprise retirement, a retirement whose timing caused an unnecessarily messy transition to a new coach that did terrible harm to the program and set it back at least a couple of years at a time when it couldn't afford to be set back. In football, well we all know the story by now.

So we are now 5 years into the conference and our current football staff hasn't even completed its first season and our basketball staff is just starting year 3, with year 1 being spent as total cleanup job year and was a lost year, call it Year 0. So really, this is Year 2 for them.

From this point going forward I believe you can start your Coyote Sports history posts. This is really the first year that you can say, "Ok Coach Smith, let's see some results." Next year I think it is fair to ask Coach Bob, "have we improved from last year?"

This thread you started just now, it's just a bit too premature. About a year or two premature and goes back into a point in history that the current regimes had no control over. In fact, it's a history that they are having to fight to overcome.