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Post by kiyoat on Feb 26, 2018 16:00:14 GMT -6
Prediction: WIU and Denver's coaches will both get hired away from their schools within the next two years. Gravina this offseason, and Turgeon after they break through as a contender next season.
They are both very good coaches that play in front of nobody. I have no idea what they are paid, and I realize that low attendance in mid-major WBB is normal, but I just think that good coaches want to coach in front of good crowds.
JMO
P.S. .... hey Bizon..... pssst....
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Post by kiyoat on Nov 22, 2019 10:37:53 GMT -6
*bump* I'll work on updating this thread, just bumping it so I can find it again...
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Post by kiyoat on Nov 22, 2019 11:22:57 GMT -6
Sorry for the ugliness of this table. It's ugly but accurate. Numbers directly from NCAA official records.
team--2017 2018 2019
USD---1816 2203 2442
SDSU -1786 2026 2106
UND---1666 1687 1556
ORU-----630 1221 1200
NDSU---750 --768 -604
WIU-----766 --638 -631 Den-----428 --444 -451 PFW-----818 --597 -503 UNO-----450 -1133 -478 UMKC----270 --423 -523
Yotes have led the league in average attendance for three years, and from the looks of things, we will make it four. I'll expect the NDSU numbers to increase over the next couple of years, assuming their new coach can win a few more games than the last one.
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Post by kiyoat on Nov 22, 2019 11:43:51 GMT -6
The season is still young, but here are the 2020 numbers so far: team | #gm | total | ave | USD | 2 | 4737 | 2368 | UND | 2 | 4044 | 2022 | SDSU | 1 | 1596 | 1596 | ORU | 3 | 4032 | 1344 | PFW | 3 | 2176 | 725 | NDSU | 2 | 1269 | 635 | WIU | 4 | 2479 | 620 | Oma | 3 | 1395 | 465 | Den | 3 | 695 | 232 |
To me, the non-conference games usually draw smaller attendance than conference games. Even the marquis non-conference match-ups will draw smaller than rivalry games. So by that metric we could be in for a record-breaking year.
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Post by coyote70 on Nov 22, 2019 17:00:06 GMT -6
I'm a bit shocked by the numbers. About the only time I tune into KELO is when I know the Coyotes have a contest and I want to see the highlights on the sports show. Last night's video at Frost Arena looked to be a full crowd, while the video for the Yotes game showed a lot of empty seats. If the attendance numbers above are true, you wouldn't know it. Did anyone else get this impression?
I think this has a lot to do with the camera angles. I know we have tread this ground before but I suggest our Coyote marketing Department take a look at this issue and see if they can get a camera angle that shows a few more of those in attendance.
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Post by kiyoat on Nov 22, 2019 17:33:31 GMT -6
I'm a bit shocked by the numbers. About the only time I tune into KELO is when I know the Coyotes have a contest and I want to see the highlights on the sports show. Last night's video at Frost Arena looked to be a full crowd, while the video for the Yotes game showed a lot of empty seats. If the attendance numbers above are true, you wouldn't know it. Did anyone else get this impression? I think this has a lot to do with the camera angles. I know we have tread this ground before but I suggest our Coyote marketing Department take a look at this issue and see if they can get a camera angle that shows a few more of those in attendance. You are right that this has been discussed before, but there's no reason we can't do it again. One of the frequent posters did a really good job explaining the perception difference in fans between the two arenas. It may have been Gopheryote? I actually remember Zimmer talking about this on KWSN once, too. Anyway, I'll try my hand at it. Anyone correct me if I'm wrong. At frost the seats near the court are usually full. Partly because the upper seats have fairly bad sight angles to the court, and some of the upper seats are wood pull-out bleachers. Also keep in mind where the concourse is there. Right in the middle. At the SCSC it is a "bowl" with an upper concourse. So if you want to be closer to the bathrooms, concessions and exits, you stay near the top. One of the really great things about the SCSC's design is also what kills the perception of fans: There really isn't a bad seat in the house. Even in the top row, you have great sight lines and feel close to the court. The bowl is efficient that way. Unfortunately, because the view is so good from the upper sections, and you are close to the concourse, people tend to sit higher up and space themselves out. The bleacher ends are also usually the last to fill up because everyone wants to sit on the sides. These bleacher ends are very visible and are usually empty. Then there is the camera angle issue. The bottom five rows or so are often sparse, even when the rest of the stands are relatively full. I think a few rows behind the benches are reserved for families of teams and recruits? also, some people just like the view better five rows up and above, so the score table and benches aren't obstructing anything. When the games are televised, the camera angle only shows the bottom few rows of the stands on the bench side, and the ends. Thus, about the only time it "looks" full is in the rivalry games, when even the bench ends fill up. I agree wholeheartedly that the administration needs to look into how to fix that perception. The teams are doing their job of providing a winning product. The fans are (slowly) responding, and showing up. Now we just have to do what we need to do to fill in those empty seats right at court level, or change the camera angle, or whatever. I'm no expert on this, but it has been a problem for all of the SCSC's three and a half years.
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Post by kiyoat on Nov 22, 2019 17:37:16 GMT -6
One of the really great things about the SCSC, though, is the volume. You may not see all the fans from the TV broadcast, but it gets loud as hell in there even with just 1,500 to 2,500 fans. When it is half or more full, it's deafening. I think the bowl and the low ceiling helps.
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Post by GoYotes on Nov 22, 2019 18:01:52 GMT -6
If the first 6 rows on the team bench side and both ends were removed and replaced with a 10 foot red wall and the lighting of the upper half of the seating area was turned off, the SCSC would look a lot fuller. There is a reason the plans to remodel Frost Arena, which is older than the Dakotadome, only include seating for 5,000.
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Post by coyotecrazie5 on Nov 22, 2019 18:19:21 GMT -6
I'm a bit shocked by the numbers. About the only time I tune into KELO is when I know the Coyotes have a contest and I want to see the highlights on the sports show. Last night's video at Frost Arena looked to be a full crowd, while the video for the Yotes game showed a lot of empty seats. If the attendance numbers above are true, you wouldn't know it. Did anyone else get this impression? I think this has a lot to do with the camera angles. I know we have tread this ground before but I suggest our Coyote marketing Department take a look at this issue and see if they can get a camera angle that shows a few more of those in attendance. You are right that this has been discussed before, but there's no reason we can't do it again. One of the frequent posters did a really good job explaining the perception difference in fans between the two arenas. It may have been Gopheryote? I actually remember Zimmer talking about this on KWSN once, too. Anyway, I'll try my hand at it. Anyone correct me if I'm wrong. At frost the seats near the court are usually full. Partly because the upper seats have fairly bad sight angles to the court, and some of the upper seats are wood pull-out bleachers. Also keep in mind where the concourse is there. Right in the middle. Frost's seats are much farther away from the court and the upper seats are not visible. Jacks have good fans so their attendance is good, just as your numbers show. It looks much more attended than the SCSC because of this.At the SCSC it is a "bowl" with an upper concourse. So if you want to be closer to the bathrooms, concessions and exits, you stay near the top. One of the really great things about the SCSC's design is also what kills the perception of fans: There really isn't a bad seat in the house. Even in the top row, you have great sight lines and feel close to the court. The bowl is efficient that way. Unfortunately, because the view is so good from the upper sections, and you are close to the concourse, people tend to sit higher up and space themselves out. The bleacher ends are also usually the last to fill up because everyone wants to sit on the sides. These bleacher ends are very visible and are usually empty. People definitely spread out because there truly is no bad seat in the house. Honestly if I could buy a SRO ticket and lean against the rail on the concourse with a beer I would buy that ticket all day. I always buy SRO tickets for Twins gamesThen there is the camera angle issue. The bottom five rows or so are often sparse, even when the rest of the stands are relatively full. I think a few rows behind the benches are reserved for families of teams and recruits? also, some people just like the view better five rows up and above, so the score table and benches aren't obstructing anything. Exactly, the downfall of being so close to the court is the obstruction of the players bench. My first game in the SCSC, I was surprised front row seats were available as it was vs state. It is hard to see over 6'5" players when you are in the first row. Everyone should do it once because it was a cool experience, but the better seats are row 5+. In turn that makes the crowd look bad on tv. The CorTrust club and court-side seats on the opposite are always full, but that side is not shown much during the game. I prefer to sit above the CorTrust club as I think those are the best seats (other than being in the club).When the games are televised, the camera angle only shows the bottom few rows of the stands on the bench side, and the ends. Thus, about the only time it "looks" full is in the rivalry games, when even the bench ends fill up. I agree wholeheartedly that the administration needs to look into how to fix that perception. There is nothing they can do about sight-lines.The teams are doing their job of providing a winning product. The fans are (slowly) responding, and showing up. Now we just have to do what we need to do to fill in those empty seats right at court level, or change the camera angle, or whatever. I'm no expert on this, but it has been a problem for all of the SCSC's three and a half years. Going to the game is a much better way to gauge the crowd rather than on tv or a 20 minutes before game-time pictures. I was there vs Missouri and asked myself if it was 1/3 full? I felt it was and the 2407 announced attendance was not inflated.
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Post by kiyoat on Nov 24, 2019 7:29:10 GMT -6
I think one way we could fill in those first 4 or 5 rows, or the bleacher West end (opposite the students) could be with either promotional events or elementary school kids. Remember how loud those kids were at our Women’s season opener at Northeastern? Kids don’t care about sight lines.
Also, I’ve sat in those seats behind the scorers table. Yes, you can’t see the entire floor, but it really isn’t that bad. Being right in the middle of the action is an experience in itself.
I think the ticket-sellers could probably do a better job of filling in those seats with walk-ups, IMO. If someone requests elsewhere, fine. But otherwise let’s direct them to where the cameras will be trained.
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Post by kiyoat on Nov 27, 2019 8:57:21 GMT -6
The attendance for the Missouri State game was 2115. I thought those "trouble spots" behind the scorers table, benches and the west end looked way better. Looked like there was a group of elementary school age girls with matching tees in the front row of the bleachers. They were high-fiving the cheerleaders. That's awesome. Kids bring a lot of enthusiasm to the game. Good stuff.
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Post by kiyoat on Nov 27, 2019 10:05:33 GMT -6
Non-conference attendance comparison 2017-2020 2017 |
| 2018 |
| 2019 |
| 2020 | | SIUE* | 521 | Creighton | 1997 | Incarnate Word | 1799 | Drake | 2330 | SFA | 2367 | Bellevue | 1729 | Saint Mary | 1584 | Missouri | 2407 | Concordia SP | 1266 | CSU Bakersfield | 1826 | Wichita State* | 1892 | Missouri State | 2115 | Illinois | 1262 | Tulsa | 1700 | Iowa State | 2364 | Creighton | 2350$ | San Jose St | 1601 | UC Riverside | 1611 | Green Bay | 1960 | Coppin State | 1700$ | Northwestern College | 1298 | UND | 1732 | Bellevue | 1718 | Mount Marty | 1800$ |
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| Montana | 1950$ | Non-Con AVE | 1386 |
| 1799 |
| 1886 |
| 2093$ | Season AVE | 1831 |
| 2203 |
| 2442 |
| 2679$ |
Major Conterence TeamHigh-Rank Mid MajorMid Major Team Non-Division I Team* = Game at Sanford Pentagon $ = estimate or projection
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Post by kiyoat on Nov 27, 2019 10:13:28 GMT -6
Just a fun little project. I thought I'd try to project attendance based on recent past. One thing that is interesting is that the non-conference average is usually around 75% to 80% of the season average. For this projection I used 78%. That might not be super accurate, given the high quality of the home schedule this year. The season projection might be a little less. Maybe more like 2,500 to 2,600. Either way, those would be great numbers. The estimates for the remainder of the non-conference are very rough.
Also, I didn't include Mount Marty or Doane in 2018 because those contests were during the regular season as replacements for IUPUI on the schedule. I thought they were higher than what they would have been in the pre-season period.
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Post by easmus on Dec 1, 2019 20:47:02 GMT -6
The attendance for the Missouri State game was 2115. I thought those "trouble spots" behind the scorers table, benches and the west end looked way better. Looked like there was a group of elementary school age girls with matching tees in the front row of the bleachers. They were high-fiving the cheerleaders. That's awesome. Kids bring a lot of enthusiasm to the game. Good stuff. It was Parkston kids, guessing their basketball team. I was in row 3 right behind them.
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Post by kiyoat on Mar 2, 2020 9:14:24 GMT -6
Sorry for the ugliness of this table. It's ugly but accurate. Numbers directly from NCAA official records. team--2017-2018-2019-2020
USD---1816 2203 2442 2339SDSU -1786 2026 2106 1819UND---1666 1687 1556 1488ORU-----630 1221 1200 1229NDSU---750 --768 -604 - 693WIU-----766 --638 -631 - 703Den-----428 --444 -451 - 532PFW-----818 --597 -503 - 589UNO-----450 -1133 -478 - 402UMKC----270 --423 -523 - 629
Yotes have led the league in average attendance for three years, and from the looks of things, we will make it four. I'll expect the NDSU numbers to increase over the next couple of years, assuming their new coach can win a few more games than the last one. Updated with 2020 numbers immediately post-season (SDSU's numbers could change if they host in the WNIT). Good to see UMKC's attendance upward trend. SDSU and ORU are falling off a little. The rest are pretty steady. If not for the blizzard over the SDSU game, I'd guess we would have improved over last year.
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