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Post by yotebewithyou on Apr 9, 2017 23:06:33 GMT -6
Saw something on twitter about how it would be more likely for them to stay at 9 teams than to expand to 12. Can't remember who it was but they appeared to have ties to the valley
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Post by Yote 53 on Apr 10, 2017 7:49:42 GMT -6
If they are standing pat then that says something about the current state of the Valley. They've known for some time this move by Wichita State was going to happen. No way they were caught off guard and now need to regroup. You would think they could have had their home work done, prospective schools lined up, and commitments from the prospects in hand before the meeting even took place. From everything I've read the prospective candidates are not quite sure a move to the Valley is the best thing anymore. Heck, we've debated it here, whether a move to the Valley from the Summit is much of a step up and which way each conference is trending.
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Post by Yotes on Apr 10, 2017 8:02:07 GMT -6
Why trade a one bid conference that is working for you for a reeling one bid conference that might not be a good fit? I would not blame a school like Valparaiso for rejecting an invite one bit. Whatever gap that existed between the MVC and the Summit/Horizon has narrowed dramatically. The potential reward that comes with an invite is highly questionable at this point.
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Post by GoYotes on Apr 25, 2017 9:23:59 GMT -6
Dave Reynolds is the Bradley beat writer for the Peoria Journal Star. The fact that the MVC is even visiting Omaha says a lot about what the MVC members of the MVFC think of the Summit League.
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Post by kiyoat on Apr 25, 2017 10:21:08 GMT -6
Omaha would be a weak move, IMO. If they did go that route, the Summit should have a list of schools ready for their own expansion.
If Milwaukee, that's two Horizon League schools. Brings the Horizon down to 8 schools. I'm guessing they start shopping around to get back to 10, IMO. Ft Wayne or IUPUI might get a look, or the two XDSU schools. The geography doesn't make sense, though.
I'd rather see the Summit proactive than reactive after the dominoes fall.
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Post by Yote 53 on Apr 25, 2017 11:16:44 GMT -6
If they pull UNO and two Horizon schools the Horizon would backfill with the Indiana alphabets. The Summit loses three schools after the dust settles and is effectively dead in the water.
Our only chance in all this is to take control of our own destiny. The Dakota Four should be approaching the flagships out west about starting an all-sports conference. This conference would be a predominately state school, flagship type of conference.
USD-SDSU UND-NDSU Montana-Montana State Idaho-Idaho State Eastern Washington Denver-Omaha (basketball only)
That would be a 9 football and 11 basketball conference. Could play a true round robin in both football and basketball. It would also be the undisputed #1 FCS football conference and a top mid-major basketball conference.
Optional to add a 12th member to make it easier for travel with travel partners. Potential schools could be UNC or Weber State. We could make football work with 10 FCS members.
There would be collateral damage in all this. I would feel bad for WIU but I think they could easily find a home in the OVC.
Something like this needs to happen or we will all be forever pawns in the games of the MVC schools. It is just so natural that these schools should be together and is almost our destiny. An added bonus would be UNI could go suck eggs in a crap football conference.
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Post by GoYotes on Apr 25, 2017 11:25:34 GMT -6
If Valpo & Milwaukee go to the Valley, it leaves UIC & Green Bay somewhat on an island in the Horizon, somewhat similar to the 2 Indiana schools in the Summit. Adding UIC & Green Bay to the Summit in exchange for the 2 Indiana schools would be a nice option, at least from a Summit League viewpoint.
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Post by Yote 53 on Apr 25, 2017 11:30:38 GMT -6
Tired of band-aids. Time to go full nuclear and just get it settled. Let's get the big state schools together. We all fit academically, athletically, and institutionally.
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Post by Coyote Fan on Apr 25, 2017 11:58:35 GMT -6
Tired of band-aids. Time to go full nuclear and just get it settled. Let's get the big state schools together. We all fit academically, athletically, and institutionally. That is exactly what needs to happen. I agree in being proactive as well.
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Post by kiyoat on Apr 25, 2017 12:54:45 GMT -6
USD-SDSU UND-NDSU Montana-Montana State Idaho-Idaho State Eastern Washington Denver-Omaha (basketball only) How about adding Mankato and St Cloud to the mix? I think its high time they made the D-1 move, and would be good travel partners. We would have to be patient while they transitioned, but it seems like a natural thing IMO. Basically like a new and improved NCC. The Hockey angle would be interesting, too, with Denver, UND, UNO, St. Cloud and Mankato all in the same conference for non-hockey sports. I could see a Montana school starting a Hockey program.
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Post by wrj on Apr 25, 2017 13:12:34 GMT -6
If they pull UNO and two Horizon schools the Horizon would backfill with the Indiana alphabets. The Summit loses three schools after the dust settles and is effectively dead in the water. With UND coming in that would leave the Summit at seven. A quick addition of one would get us to a livable eight while work on a long term solution can be pursued. That might take a while. Several options are mentioned in this thread. We should probably be looking for that one school band-aid for short term needs while we work on the bigger picture. Kansas City fits geography wise and doesn't present the problem of what to do with football. Nobody wants to go to the WAC so it isn't likely to make dominoes fall that come back to hurt us 2 days or 2 years later. There may be others which could help us in a similar fashion.
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Post by coyote70 on Apr 25, 2017 14:03:17 GMT -6
I don't want to come across as argumentative, but do want to offer an alternative: keep things the way they are now.
I like stability. Conference turmoil and for that matter, players constantly transferring all over the place are at best minor turn-offs for me. It doesn't matter so much if a conference exists for say, football and another conference has all other sports, as we do for the MVFC and Summit. What does matter, however, is the stability of that conference. Stability promotes natural rivalries - sort of a get to know the other school, it's competitors and the area it is situated in-type of thing. Like we had in the NCC days.
I'm just now getting to know and develop a sense of rivalry or "dislike" if you want to call it for schools we have competed against only in recent years. You know, Youngstown, the Illinois schools, etc. in football and Omaha, Denver, etc. in other sports. For these teams, the amount of rivalry hasn't grown to the level of dislike for SD/ND State (e.g. Hate State) but it has progressed some.
Now folks want me to possibly start over and start knowing/disliking a new set of teams?
Just kidding a bit here, but it seems like rivalries do take time and effort to cultivate. A good conference starts with good rivalries.
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Post by Yote 53 on Apr 25, 2017 14:30:09 GMT -6
I don't want to come across as argumentative, but do want to offer an alternative: keep things the way they are now. I like stability. Conference turmoil and for that matter, players constantly transferring all over the place are at best minor turn-offs for me. It doesn't matter so much if a conference exists for say, football and another conference has all other sports, as we do for the MVFC and Summit. What does matter, however, is the stability of that conference. Stability promotes natural rivalries - sort of a get to know the other school, it's competitors and the area it is situated in-type of thing. Like we had in the NCC days. I'm just now getting to know and develop a sense of rivalry or "dislike" if you want to call it for schools we have competed against only in recent years. You know, Youngstown, the Illinois schools, etc. in football and Omaha, Denver, etc. in other sports. For these teams, the amount of rivalry hasn't grown to the level of dislike for SD/ND State (e.g. Hate State) but it has progressed some. Now folks want me to possibly start over and start knowing/disliking a new set of teams? Just kidding a bit here, but it seems like rivalries do take time and effort to cultivate. A good conference starts with good rivalries. You may have missed the part about the possibility of 3 teams leaving the Summit. There is no stability. It would leave the conference dead as Omaha and IPFW are baseball playing members of the conference. If they leave, the conference does not sponsor the required number of sports to maintain its auto-bid status for the NCAA Tournament. A conference with no bid is not a conference, it's the Great West all over again. So basically, we don't have a choice. There may be no "keeping things the way they are". We can either be proactive and pursue similar schools and build something solid, or sit here and accept whatever fate is dished our way. I'd prefer we got proactive and built something great. Then you would have your stability.
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Post by gopheryote on Apr 25, 2017 15:21:50 GMT -6
USD-SDSU UND-NDSU Montana-Montana State Idaho-Idaho State Eastern Washington Denver-Omaha (basketball only) How about adding Mankato and St Cloud to the mix? I think its high time they made the D-1 move, and would be good travel partners. We would have to be patient while they transitioned, but it seems like a natural thing IMO. Basically like a new and improved NCC. The Hockey angle would be interesting, too, with Denver, UND, UNO, St. Cloud and Mankato all in the same conference for non-hockey sports. I could see a Montana school starting a Hockey program. The two MN schools coming in (or maybe Duluth has surpassed one of them) seems like a good solution and builds long-term stability into the conference given the regional base, history, rivalries, shared cultures, etc. Personally, short of the Montana schools coming in, I think it is the best option. However, the xDSU's would be up in arms immediately, as they recruit a ton of their FB & BB players from there. If the state of Minnesota had 2 MVFC/Summit schools to choose from vs. going to Brookings or Fargo, a lot of those kids would likely stay in-state. If you haven't noticed, the xDSU's are not really into sharing, and that certainly includes recruits.
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Post by Coyote Fan on Apr 25, 2017 16:30:29 GMT -6
I don't want USD to be in a conference with basketball only schools because that is the situation that is causing all the problems with the Summit/MVC conglomerate. If Omaha and/or Denver want to stay in the same conference the requirement should be football or it is a no go.
Any new conference starts with these 4 and builds from there. Bring any potential members in as pairs if possible.
NDSU-UND SDSU-USD
My preference for a next two would be Montana and Montana State and next probably add Idaho and Idaho State. The last four (because of wanting 12 teams instead of 10) could be a combination of any of the 4 of UNC, E Wash, UNI, WIU, SIU, IndSU, MizzoSU. Whether the core 4 go east or west isn't really a big deal to me as long as the school shares the long term outlook of the Dakotas both academically and athletically.
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