usdlaw
Senior Member
Posts: 930
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Post by usdlaw on Feb 20, 2011 14:38:41 GMT -6
one minute left, time out to get subs in
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usdlaw
Senior Member
Posts: 930
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Post by usdlaw on Feb 20, 2011 14:39:50 GMT -6
90-67 37 seconds left
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usdlaw
Senior Member
Posts: 930
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Post by usdlaw on Feb 20, 2011 14:40:54 GMT -6
final 90-67
good win
13-13 record
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Post by Yote 53 on Feb 20, 2011 15:08:16 GMT -6
Yotes played a good game. Looked sharp on defense and the offense just seemed to flow a lot better than the last time I saw them play.
Attendance was bad, real bad. I figured that since it was a Sunday afternoon game and the weather is crap for travelling. Still, I would have thought SOME students would show up. The student sections were completely empty except for 6 students. Nick the Tick was sitting over there for #7 but we didn't count him. Yes, it was that bare that you could actually count the number of students.
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Post by yotemeal on Feb 20, 2011 15:28:02 GMT -6
Sounds like the crowd was extremely limited. Not unexpected given the weather and long weekend. Hosting a sub-500 team with an 0-13 road record doesn't help.
Would love to see some momentum heading into the GWC Tourney. NJIT on Thursday in the dome. I'll be there.
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Post by littleyote on Feb 21, 2011 11:32:33 GMT -6
GOOD game for the yotes on sunday. They showed allot better team play. The guards had some very nice looks at 3 pt shots. They made some and missed some but at least they were squared up and open looks. The percentage of makes will go up if they continue to use good shot selection as they did on sunday. There is no doubt that there man to man needs some work but it was a good start against a little bit easier competion. If they do not start some were it would never develop. I noticed that coach Boots said in his post game press conference that he knew we would struggle a little with rebounding this year because of our size. I do not think coach Boots has to resign to that thought because rebounding has way more to do with position and boxing out than size. Coach Boots and his staff did a nice job of trying a few different players and strategies in this game to find a winning combination for this game. Good job by all and good luck in the next game!!!!
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Post by youthbballcoach on Feb 21, 2011 12:18:12 GMT -6
Usdlaw, I am the person to whom you are referring in regards to making the long post and being a recent follower of The Yotes. I have no problem giving credit where credit is due. It was well played game and a victory over a team that they should've beaten. This is how they should play each game. They defended with intensity and passed unselfishly and this is why they were so successful.
I only caught the 2nd half of yesterday's game and was pleasantly surprised to see The Yotes playing tough man to man defense. This led to several positives. The team as a whole finally defended as though they had a feeling of pride that they weren't going to let their man score. Playing man to man seemed to get The Yotes' juices flowing. They were able to defend shooters better and not give up so many up looks. It also helped with rebounding because the adjustment in defense made it easier to find someone to block out and secure the board. On offense, they routinely made several passes to look for the best shot as witnessed by their 23 assists which is the most they have had against a Div.I team this year. It was good to see.
Coach Boots has been a very successful coach on the Div.II level. His record speaks for itself. The Div.I level is a whole different ball game however and the zone that he plays has been mostly ineffective this season. On this level almost every team has guys that can knock down open shots and because of the increased quickness of the athletes, the gaps in the zone get exploited. I'm not suggesting that a zone can't be played, but when it continually gives up wide-open shots, there needs to be an adjustment in strategy. In several of their losses and even in some of their close victories this season, The Yotes have given up too many open 3s, easy drives to the hoop and uncontested rebound opportunities due to their zone defense. Their zone has been keeping lesser teams in the game (SIUE, Longwood, UTPA, etc.). These issues were not a factor yesterday because they were so much more active playing man. I didn't comment on the UVU game because I neither saw it nor heard it but after speaking to someone who had seen the game and looking at the play by play I can say that my assessment of their zone holds true. USD game up 8 3s in the first 8 minutes of the game and 10 in the first half. They were never able to recover.
When I spoke of chemistry, I was not talking about how players get along off the floor, moreso how unselfishly they play during the game. In yesterday's game the players consistently made the pass that led to a good shot. When this is done the offense will always run smoothly. Usdlaw, how many times have you seen guys on this year's team take quick or forced shots, not feed the post or just ignore passing to the open man? On the defensive end guys were communicating, switching on screens when needed and just displayed an overall trust of their teamates. When guys play unselfishly and with intensity on the defensive end, it makes the game easy. This is the chemistry I was referring to.
Usdlaw, I am first a foremost a Div.I basketball fan and just enjoy seeing good basketball. I understand that you have a been a Coyote supporter much longer than I have and due to this hold Coach Boots and his program in high regard. With many years of success it is well deserved and understandable. I can respect that. It doesn't mean however that some of his decisions on playing time or strategy aren't questionable. Coach Boots at times just takes too long to make the proper adjustments. From a basketball stand point, I look at a player like Kendall Cutler who is one of the few players that play hard each game. He is a senior that played a major part on a very successful team last year, so much so that he earned MVP in the GWC Tournament. He currently leads the GWC in assist/game and assist/turnover ration. His assist totals would be impressive if guys were making shots all year. This season he plays lesser mintues on a team with a worse record. He gets juggled in and out of the starting line-up and his minutes fluctuate each game. For example, he played 15 minutes in yesterday's game and had a flawless floor game dishing out 7 assists with no turnovers. He is more than a "security blanket" when things aren't going well. Hasn't he earned the right to be on the floor? Mitchell Bouie was contributor to last year's team success and almost always gives positive minutes when he plays, yet look how sparingly he is used. Jake Thomas has shot the ball at a 33% clip this season yet he continues to lead the team minutes played. That doesn't make any sense. No matter how poorly he shoots, he still plays 30+ minutes. Jordan Boots plays almost twice as many minutes/game as Bouie. I'm not saying this as a slight but I really doubt than there is any other Div.I program where this would take place. Jordan played 27 minutes in yesterday's game to Cutler's 15 minutes. That's just plain wrong. The coaches at UVU and N.Dakota have both acknowledged Cutler's play. As a senior and with the things he brings to the game, Cutler is supposed to be on the floor.
Usdlaw, you can look at the stats, play-by-play from each game or watch some of the archived games and you will see the things I have been critical of are true. After all The Yotes are just 13-13. The Yotes had a good win yesterday. Other than the Wyoming game, this may have been their best played all-around game. They shared the ball unselfishly on offense and defended with a toughness and tenacity that has been missing most of the season. This is what I fully expect to see on a regular basis because they have the talent to consistently play this way.
I assure you, I am not a fair weather fan. Over the course of these past 2 years, I have had the opportunity to have several conversations with the assistant coaches and some of the players. Our talks have always been pleasant. I tend to root for the underdog and I genuinely want to see the program continue to succeed as they move forward. In order for them to do that Coach Boots needs to recognize that he has to at times make adjustments in his strategy. He has to understand that defense is just as important as offense and that good defense can actually lead to offense. What works on the Div.II level may not work on this higher Div.I level. Every team has players that can slash to the basket and hit open shots. The talent level has increased and Boots needs to adjust his philosophies accordingly.
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usdlaw
Senior Member
Posts: 930
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Post by usdlaw on Feb 21, 2011 14:18:21 GMT -6
youthbbcoach I did know what you meant about chemistry, ie on the floor chemistry. I don't know why you thought otherwise. I was simply pointing out that the article in the paper sure seemed to be a lot about whether the guys get along with each other. But with that said I tend to think chemistry off the court affects your chemistry on the court. Maybe that's just me.
I agree with you that I have seen many shots taken early in the possession, some of them from "downtown Vermillion". And I too shake my head at those. But in defending Louie and Thomas, they are scorers with a scorers mentality. I have no problem with that.
I agree with you that Cutler does many good things, except have a jump shot. He drives well, passes well, defends well, and most of all hustles probably more than anyone out there. Bouie is much the same way. His desire is noticeable. Bouie is so strong and even though he is shorter than most post players, he sure seems to get rebounds and make a high percentage of his shots. I don't think we disagree with each other regarding Bouie and Cutler.
I understand your issue seems to be mostly with Jordan playing, or at least the amount of minutes Jordan plays in comparison to some fellow teammates. Previously I wasn't going to respond to that, but since you responded basically to me I will.
I'll respond to that in this way. I'm not the coach, I don't watch them practice all week. I'll leave the playing time decision to the actual coach. With that said, give Jordan some credit. He's in a tough situation. Do you think it is fun being the coaches kid? Do you think it is fun reading on here that the only reason he is playing is because he is the coaches kid? I would say no. Is Jordan as athletic as say Charlie Westbrook, no. Anyone can see that. But, he has hit some big shots too. Games run together in my mind, but wasn't it the UVU home game that he hit some big shots down the stretch that helped win the game. Just saying.
You ask the question, or make the assumption, but yes I am a Coach Boots fan. I don't think that is a secret. I'm not going to sit here and Monday morning quarterback him. Do I agree with every decision he makes, no.
Do you think a large part of the reason they play zone and not man to man is because of the lack of a Tyler Cain type presence in the middle? If you recall, Gruis and Andreotte got in foul trouble during many early games on the season.
We really don't think that differently. For the most part, I agreed with much of your first long post. Not all of it.
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Post by Coyote Fan on Feb 21, 2011 19:33:50 GMT -6
Good comments but I want to clarifiy an opinion about Boot's D2 success. The success was maily confined to the North Central Region. The Yotes were always competitive in the conference as far as always having a winning record but IMHO USD was only a true national championship contending team one year to my recollection. In 1992-1993 USD had what I consider the only great team in the Boots era. The 1993-1994 team was close but not as good. That 1993 NCC team was special and finished 16-2 in the NCC. They were 16-1 but lost to UND to finish the conference season in a game where USD was simply flat. That team was screwed out of hosting the North Central Region, as the excuse given for them not getting it was because of having to host a track meet during that same weekend. As it turned out that team got to the elite 8 by beating UND in a classic 2 OT game which to this day is probably my best memory in my Coyote basketball history. That team went to the elite 8 in Massachusetts and lost to New Hampshire College in something like triple OT. I thought the Yotes were the better team during that game and the only team I thought may have been better than USD that year was Cal State Bakersfield who I believe won the championship.
Other than that year USD has been overmatched on a national level as was the entire NCC as a whole in the 90's and 2000's. The NCC was a physical banging conference that got overwelmed when they played more athletic faster paced teams. SDSU had the same problems not having the thorough-breads to beat the teams from across the nation that played a different brand of basketball.
I bring that up because the NCC as a basketball conference was over-rated on a national scale and alot of it had to do with style of play. The Summit League will be a different brand of basketball than what the NCC has been all these years and what Dave Boots was used to all these years. Dave Boots will not have success in the Summit if he is the same old Boots. He needs to evolve. At times recently Boots has shown signs of maybe breaking out and broadening his coaching horizons but he ultimately seems to settle down to the same coach with the same habits as has always been. Some of those habits may be good habits but when it comes to player development, spreading out minutes, playing solid man to man defense, getting out and being an efficient fast break team can be a shortfall. Letting the foundation of the Boots dog house stand too firm against many players can be a major setback as well. Brock Seim is the best example that comes to mind but definately many others that could have been much better players if given the chance ended up being stunted in their development.
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Post by littleyote on Feb 21, 2011 21:41:44 GMT -6
some really interesting conversation on here. I agree with a lot of it, as some very good points were made. I agree on a lot of the thoughts on coach Boots, but I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and am very hopeful that he will adapt. With that being said he does need to do some tweaking to be completive at the next level. As to the conversation on Jordan Boots, I don't think he should cut into Cutler's minutes either. I do however think Boots deserves some minutes, maybe some of Jakes minutes??? Boots is not the athlete that Jake is but does use good shot selection as shown by his stats. When Jake decides to use a little better shot selection and only shot open good looks he is going to be a assume asset to the team. As to the comment about getting out and fast breaking, I find that interesting also. With this group of athletes I think it could work. The bench is deep enough for some subbing. I think this group has some excellent passers, and some smart players so it could work. It would be neat to see if it would work.
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coachk
Freshman Member
Posts: 22
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Post by coachk on Feb 21, 2011 21:51:40 GMT -6
I totally agree that coach needs to evolve. what worked before is not working now. You can not rely on what worked at DII & think it will work at DI.
Please give Jordan a break he maximizes the talent he has. He is a spot up shooter who can over play the passing lanes. He has gotten a little cold the last 8-10 games but he is not to blame for our record or lack of it.
Coach Boots has said in interviews that he is proud of the way he has developed talent after he had them for 3-4 years, from when they came in as freshman to seniors. He needs to show he can do that & not rely on the quick fix of JUCO's to win in the Summit.
In the long run player development, and giving ten players a legit chance to earn playing time will develop a team & a reputation to recruits.
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Post by youthbballcoach on Feb 21, 2011 21:57:31 GMT -6
usdlaw, I appreciate your response and respect your opinions. It's just that we view the game differently. In regards to chemistry, the things you said are very true. Sometimes getting along off the court translate into good play on the court, but other than a few games this year I've witnessed a lot of forced plays instead of making several passes to get the best shot. Being that The Yotes are involved in so many close games, poor 5 minute stretches ultimately cost them several victories. Sometimes it's due to strategy, sometimes it's personnel and sometimes it's effort. Yesterday the team for the most part was able to put all three together and the result was an easy victory.
My assessments are based on what I am seeing on the floor. Just like you, I don't get to see the guys practice. I appreciate the situation Jordan is in. I have just seen numerous games where maybe due to the quickness or physicality of the game he is unable to get open looks. Being that he is primarily a spot-up shooter, when he isn't making shots, he doesn't contribute. My peeve is that at times his minutes come at the expense of seniors that continue to make positive plays on the floor, seniors who have been involved in their GWC Championship run. I actually have a greater issue with Thomas' minutes. His 30+ minutes of frigid shooting and porous defense have been killers for The Yotes this season. It isn't as though the team doesn't have other options. Even when Tecker is healthy or when Cutler is playing well, Thomas continues to play too many minutes while not producing. Purely from a basketball standpoint, there is no logic in this. Tecker is a better all-around player and Cutler helps get easy shots for the rest of the team and while Cutler isn't a 3 pt. shooter, he hits the foul-line jumper when he takes it and gets into the lane and to the freethrow line. He consistently looks for teamates, that is something the team as a whole should be doing. Gruis, Tecker and Andreotti all willingly make the pass when they see an open teamate so everyone else can to. There is no reason to take bad shots on a team that has so many capable scorers. As for Thomas, great shooters don't shoot 33% over the course of a season.
In my opinion The Yotes play zone because that is what Coach Boots is accustomed to. Last season I went on the Texas Tech trip and witnessed The Yotes playing Texas Tech, Oregon State and Texas A&M Corpus Cristi. They played the match-up zone and Tyler stayed in foul trouble vs Texas Tech and Oregon State because guys continued to attack the gaps and get to the basket. As last season progressed they played more man to man, in two of the close games vs UTPA, they actually utilized a full court press to get back in the game and finally overtake The Broncs. There is nothing wrong with playing a zone but when it isn't working, you have to do something else. Sometimes playing a more aggressive defense causes turnovers and allows the team to put together some easy baskets. Playing a zone with only 1 big on the floor has caused foul trouble for both Gruis and Andreotti because they can't contest every attempt at the rim and get to every rebound. Keep in mind Cain had Smith on the floor with him to occupy space inside. Gentry and Cutler also were good at applying pressure out high, the opposition's ballhandlers weren't free to do as they pleased. As far as Gruis goes, have you noticed that since he has been involved in the offense more, he tends to foul less?
Coyote Fan, you have been a longtime fan as has usdlaw, so you know the program's history better than I do. I can also appreciate your input on the subject. You seem to see a lot of the same things I do. Addressing some of these issues will only improve The Yotes, that is my main concern. I would love for them to get it together and make a run for The GWC title. I think that everyone on this message board wants to see that. I truly believe this year's team has more talent but adjustments need to be made in order to put their best team on the floor and play at their highest level.
Coach Boots has comiled a fantastic record over the years. There is no arguement there. usdlaw, I am by no means anti-Boots (Coach or Jordan), anti-Thomas or any other player. I'm anti-bad basketball. Some of the losses this season could have been avoided with different strategy and personnel. We don't agree on all things and that is ok, but I think we both want to see the program rise and be the best that it can be.
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Post by Coyote Fan on Feb 21, 2011 23:32:24 GMT -6
YBBC,
You are refreshing to this board because you take the time to elaborate with your writing. It's obvious you know the game of basketball. When you say you are "anti bad basketball" that was well put. You are right on the mark when you say that the Yotes settle for bad shots. I don't think the Yotes utilitize the motion offense or the passing game nearly enough. When a basketball team is truley clicking and winning I notice two things that seem to be true, probably amongst others. When a team has confidence they pass the ball well, when a team passed the ball well to set up others it is very noticable from the stands and does not take a basketball genius to see it. Actually in most things that take success on the floor do not take a sophisticated X's and O's system but just team cohesion. Another thing that I see in winning teams tends to be a relentlessness on the boards and not allowing other teams easy rebounds and easy putbacks. It's an effort thing more than anything. Being tall is not the most important aspect of rebounding but rather tenacity. USD has had plenty of tall teams that were poor rebounding teams and on the other hand 3 guards lineup teams can rebound well if they play the fundametals and also because they can get to spots on the floor better than bigger players often times. Alot of USD's poor rebounding can fairly be contributed to the zone but in a matchup zone I would think the rebounding deficiency may not always be so severe.
Looking forward USD has goals that are different from D2. In D2 the goal is to get to the elite 8 and hopefully farther. At the D1 mid major level the goal is to win the conference and ultimately get to the NCAA tourney.
This is my biggest problem with Boots this year. Admittedly the Coyotes are just not very tall but definately don't have the depth of inside players. Boots has said from the very beginning that USD would probably be a 3 or 4 guard teams give or take one or two swing players. Boots is trying to play a guard heavy lineup and turn it into the half court oriented team. I think that is a mistake and that is where Boots lack of ability (or refusal) to adjust to his talent is hurting this years Coyote teams more than ever. The Coyotes lack of depth partially from a lack of D1 talented players but moreso because Boots refused to allow his bench to go deep is definately a detriment more than ever for this years team. A team can make up for a lack of height in alot of areas and I feel USD is missing that opportunity. If Boots made the commitment to be 10 deep off the bench USD could do so much more. First of all they could play more man to man. Maybe more importantly they would have more energy to burn the 200 man minutes that are available per game. USD could play much more uptempo with a deeper bench. Boots keeps saying he would like to be deeper but he has been saying that for 2 decades and nothing ever changes.
Westbrook would be dynamite in an utempo game. Cutler would be good, Krogman would be good. I think Andreotti could run the floor effectively. Thomas would have way more open looks to get his confidence going on his outside game. He actually is very underrated getting to the basket so he could utilitize that aspect of his game as well.
Back to the point of USD and their place as a mid major. If USD with the talent they have were in a conference like the big ten or big 12 could never be a running team because the talent would be just too good to do against very consistantly. On the other hand in the Great West USD could make a killing as a guard oriented uptempo team IMO. Even in the Summit with a higher overall talent level the Coyotes could still do fairly well as a guard oriented fast break team. I am not saying forget about the half court offense or half court defense but maybe playing a zone combined with an uptempo team could work out better than just having to play zone in a slower game. Either way having a deeper bench allows much more flexibility to what a team can do and most definately puts more energy into the 200 man minutes that a game consists of. Cain and Steve Smith are more half court slow it down oriented players but Andreotti for sure would thrive in a faster game, he's just built that way more than a pure banger down low.
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Post by Charlie on Feb 22, 2011 8:44:12 GMT -6
I was happy the Yotes got the win on Sun. Granted they weren't playing the toughest team but overall it was a good win. Gruis played well in the post and showed an ability to create his own shot which is something we didn't see at the beginning of the season. Louie did a good job taking the ball to the rim which is something I hope he continues to do as it opens thing up for other players on the dish off underneath or a kick out for an open look. It's great the Yotes could get back on track going into the last 2 home games of the season. Anyone else surprised at the attendance number released after the game? It said there were over 1000 people there. I was at the game and I would have to say 400 was pushing it as far as the attendance.
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Post by Yote 53 on Feb 22, 2011 10:00:00 GMT -6
I don't think they were counting butts in the seats rather they counted paid attendance which would include all the season ticket holders that did not attend the game.
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