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Post by usdtator on Sept 27, 2018 13:13:28 GMT -6
Breaking news...
A unnamed woman from Thomas Jefferson's past has accused him of punching her in the shoulder and then exclaiming, "I don't like girls!"
They were both six years old at the time.
An FBI investigation has been asked for...
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Post by sdyotefan on Sept 28, 2018 15:40:42 GMT -6
Jefferson would be a great name! Probably won't happen in the current PC "culture?" If you get a chance visit Monticello (and Mount Vernon)!
Also except in rare cases I'm opposed to landmark and other location name changes and I can give thousands of reasons why. As a lifelong resident of the Black Hills I opposed the Harney Peak name change as did the SD commission. Unfortunately that decision was over turned by Obama administration buearcrats.
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Post by Yotes on Sept 28, 2018 17:41:22 GMT -6
There isn't going to be backlash against a Jefferson High School. If they go with a different name I'm sure it will be to honor someone significant to the area, or a donor. Jefferson is a founding father, writer of the Declaration of Independence, and consistently regarded as one of our greatest presidents. He's not at all the type of historical figure that's going to be retroactively demonized.
Harney is an odd one due to the uneasy relationship between Native Americans and white settlers, but the other renamings and retroactive judgements have seemed reasonable to me. I think of Lake Calhoun here in Minneapolis. Largest lake in Minneapolis, recently renamed to the original Dakota name of Bde Maka Ska. Sure, John C Calhoun secured Fort Snelling for the area, but he was such a crappy American that Andrew Jackson regretted not having him executed for treason while lying on his death bed. Just because someone was significant doesn't mean we should honor them. Not the case with Jefferson, it won't even be a debate in Sioux Falls if his name is put in the ring, but look at these types of things with fair judgement.
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Post by sdyotefan on Sept 29, 2018 7:13:15 GMT -6
Yotes--Hopefully you're right about the Jefferson HS name not being a problem in SF but in the U.S. now unfortunately it often only takes a few activists to influence decisions, tear down monuments, etc which is sad!!
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Post by kiyoat on Sept 29, 2018 8:05:20 GMT -6
Yotes--Hopefully you're right about the Jefferson HS name not being a problem in SF but in the U.S. now unfortunately it often only takes a few activists to influence decisions, tear down monuments, etc which is sad!! If you have some time, read the article I linked earlier in this thread. The monuments that are being torn down are not what you think they are.
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Post by sdyotefan on Sept 30, 2018 11:06:42 GMT -6
kiyoat--I have read the article and many others. They have some validity but irregardless, no mob should be allowed to tear down ANY statue by their own initiative without a due process otherwise where do you draw the line, who gets to decide what offends who. As an example we had protestors against us building a new church in Rapid City a few years ago. Said the money could be better spent which could be true but that was our decision. We built the new church (since our old church lacked space, parking, etc) and it is flourishing. As a USD Government major and history minor and lifelong student of American history things are far more complex than they seem to a "mob". Twelve U.S. presidents had slaves--some of the more surprising ones were: Grant (commander of northern forces the last years of the CW), Madison, Andrew Johnson (who unfortunately succeeded Lincoln responsible for many of the post war reconstruction problems), Andrew Jackson (hero of the Battle of New Orleans against the British), etc. Should all their statues come down too and their names be stricken from history? Slavery is bad period!! And unfortunately every culture has had slaves or been slaves a fact few people realize so where do we draw the line? I have been to CW battlefields many times such as Gettysburg and those monuments/statues should remain. We should not erase history but learn from it!!! Should FDR's name be removed from buildings, monument, etc because he created internment camps for hundreds of thousands of Americans of Japanese decent? There have been very few true saints in history--only one I can think of in recent memory is Mother Teresa!!
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Post by kiyoat on Sept 30, 2018 21:15:09 GMT -6
I appreciate the fact that you have read the article (it's a long one), and other sources on the subject. Obviously you have an (academic or professional) interest in history. I wish that more Americans, especially younger Americans had that perspective that knowledge of history gives. I also agree that we should not try to "erase" history and historical figures that are viewed negatively using today's standards. History is history, truth is truth and trying to re-write, twist, or white-wash history is a form of propaganda, in my opinion. And that is precisely why the case of the southern confederate monuments is different. Because the majority of the many, many monuments erected in the 1900-1930 period and in the 1960's were part of a campaign of propaganda and intimidation related to the re-writing and white-washing of the Civil War's history and purpose. Otherwise known as the "Lost Cause" mythology. It isn't a coincidence that the majority of these monuments were erected in the beginning of the "Jim Crow" era, and at the onset of the civil rights movement. It also isn't a coincidence that slavery is hardly mentioned in any of the "historical" markers throughout the south. The markers that were erected in the 1865-1900 period were different. They were primarily at graveyards, battlefields, etc. actual historical sites. And they were erected to glorify and memorialize events and fallen soldiers. But I assume you already knew that. I'm not saying that tearing down the statues is the answer, but if a city or state decides they want to do that (as was the case in Charlottesville) then so be it. Most of the removal of confederate statuary and flags has happened legally and has been voted on by city or state legislators, not angry mobs, as you contest. Personally, I'd rather see historical inaccuracies corrected with new memorials, statuary and interpretive signs, rather than removing existing statues. But states and municipalities have the right to handle it as they see fit. If a majority of their constituents want them gone, there will be political pressure to remove them, and that is essentially what is happening. It isn't just a small vocal minority (pun intended). If a majority of constituents want the monuments to stay, there will be political pressure the other way. Democracy in action. I'd like to also say that if anyone were to protest naming the new High School "Jefferson", IMO it would likely be someone with an axe to grind about the confederate statues and confederate flags being taken down. Someone that has been misled into seeing a hypocrisy in these actions, since so many of our founding fathers kept slaves. Someone that doesn't understand the real reasons those symbols of the confederacy were erected in the first place. I hope I am wrong, but when your president is the one directing the outrage, anything is possible.
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Post by sdyotefan on Oct 1, 2018 14:09:18 GMT -6
If statue/ monument removal is done with due process that is ok but should NEVER be done by mob rule-- I hope you agree! There are extreme elements who believe U.S. history is all bad. Obviously they are totally misguided just as those that believe it was all great. You're right more people need to learn more about our history.
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Post by kiyoat on Oct 1, 2018 15:32:48 GMT -6
Yeah, I agree that we can't let mob mentality rule, whatever side of the political or ideological fence you happen to be on. History can be a nuanced thing that can be easily twisted and manipulated to justify political motives, unfortunately.
If Thomas Jefferson isn't a strong enough historical figure to overcome the fact that he owned slaves, then God help us.
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Post by elcoyote on Oct 7, 2018 19:18:32 GMT -6
In the Argus online poll I voted "other" and wrote in Stephanie Clifford High School. Team nickname could be the Storm.
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Post by kiyoat on Jan 24, 2019 16:23:23 GMT -6
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Post by Yotes on Jan 24, 2019 18:30:31 GMT -6
I like to see people's shit get stirred, but this had to be the name. SD isn't going to disown its own monument.
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Post by kiyoat on Jan 24, 2019 18:37:45 GMT -6
I like to see people's shit get stirred, but this had to be the name. SD isn't going to disown its own monument. I don’t care to know your fetishes, thank you
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Post by Yotes on Jan 24, 2019 19:14:20 GMT -6
Broaden those horizons. Explore the unknown.
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Post by Yote 53 on Jan 24, 2019 22:28:02 GMT -6
I'm happy to see we South Dakotans still have common sense in this crazy world.
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