Youth sports question

[gopheryote]

Hey everyone - a situation came up with a friend over the weekend, and I wondered if we could crowd-source some insight/grounding here. Below is the note my friend received from the coach of his 2nd grade daughter's coach when asked why his daughter played less than some others. Please vote and provide some comments to help him decide appropriate next steps. Thanks.

NOTE:

After a busy day yesterday with basketball and other events, I can finally respond to your question. Couple of things that factor into the rotation is who has been at practice, who can handle the ball (because we need a ball handler or two with every rotation), and who is paying attention. I have had 3 or 4 girls that were supposed to go in for a rotation, but because they weren't paying attention or listening they did not play their rotation. Betty Sue has had that happen once. After it happens, I discuss why its important for them to be focused and listening when the coaches are talking. I have done this for 11 years, and that won't change.

We have 13 girls which is more than any other team I've ever coached, or seen, and there is no specific formula but we do the best we can to make sure every player gets close to the same minutes as possible. With that being said, it won't always happen.

Equal playing time during the game should not be your focus, and Betty Sue should know that as well. I tell them before every game it doesn't matter who starts, it matters who finishes and how they play. Practice time is the most valuable, and you have many years of coaching experience teaching your daughter how to play basketball. I focus on how they develop from the beginning of the year to the end of the year.

I would start explaining this to Betty Sue as soon as possible, because the younger elementary school years are as equal in playing time as anyone will ever experience. She did a great job yesterday, and is starting to know some of the basic basketball knowledge and skills. I would have her doing her daily 20 minute drill as much as possible during the week if she can!

[kiyoat]

Not sure I understand the specific question(s) you are asking with your poll and post. There are several issues. I'll take a stab at what I think you are asking:

1. Should "earning playing time" with skill level be a thing in a 2nd grade basketball league?
- Of course not. At that age it is just about getting kids used to the sport, used to being on a team, having fun and maybe learn some basic skills, like dribbling, passing, shooting, guarding, etc. (basic hard skills could have been on your poll too)

- That coach's comments look pretty innocuous on the surface, but singling out kids that are good ball handlers only makes sense if they are playing in a league that allows stealing the ball at that age (which is insane and unlikely). 

A good analogy is baseball/softball.  In 2nd grade kids should be given the opportunity to rotate to all positions, including pitcher and catcher IMO.  Typically there are youth rules at each age level that allows for a GRADUAL transition to more player specialization and more positional responsibilities, like when you can steal bases the catcher's job is harder.

The whole purpose is to teach them the basics/fundamentals of the game, not to win games.  (duh) I think in his mind this is the type of coach that will only let certain kids pitch, not necessarily so they can win, but just to move the game along.  That would be true of some age/development levels, but I think he is just not calibrating correctly to coaching 2nd grade girls basketball IMHO.  

Ball handling in basketball is not an innate skill for most kids.  It can take a long time to develop.  If this coach has some girls that can't handle the ball well, he should be making that a focus of practice, not a condition for playing time.

2. Should a 2nd grade gbb coach reward attentive players with playing time, or punish non-attentive kids with playing time?

- Absolutely not.  He shouldn't ignore it, of course.  Learning to listen to your coach is absolutely part of what they should be learning at that age, and one of the best things kids can learn from youth sports in general.  Having it affect playing time is not OK in 2nd grade, though IMO.

3.  Should equal playing time be something a parent should expect at a 2nd grade youth sports level?

- Emphatically YES!  Again, it all depends on the sport, the league, and the age.  That's why your poll is hard to answer, because you went with a different age range than your 2nd grade example.  In my opinion, there are PLENTY of parents that take the "equal playing time" thing way too far, when their kid goes from rec/development leagues to competitive leagues.  I would hope that a 2nd grade girl's basketball league would not be considered competitive, and parents should have a reasonable expectation for equal playing time.  That coach is dead wrong on that issue.

[kiyoat]

As a follow-up I think this coach's expectation for attentiveness from 2nd grade girls is a little out-of-whack. In my experience, boys at that age are far less attentive, but even with girls you should allow for some wandering and dandelion-picking (softball outfield analogy).

[sdyotefan]

I've coached soccer for over 20 yrs all ages through HS. At this age it should be about fun, learning basic basic skills so that kids will want to keep playing in the future. And definitely about treats after games and maybe even small treats after practices. Unfortunately most coaches (including me sometimes) get caught up on winning even for very young teams and at these ages the kids really don't care about that. But I can bet the parents do and the coaches and even though the kids don't often know the score or if they won or lost the adults? do.

I've often said that young kids sports would be a lot better and more fun for everyone without parents present and without coaches that OVER coach and coach only to win. Playing time should be as equal as possible at this age. Now if a player isn't paying attention, etc it's ok to take them out a little and explain why they came out then get them back in when possible. Gets trickery if there's a tournament but at this age hopefully there aren't any. At older ages and tournaments it's ok to explain that the goal is to win and that maybe everyone won't get equal playing time. Obviously all that should be explained before a tournament at a parent/team meeting. Playing time also depends on the level of play--rec players, club players, etc.

Certainly all these questions are age old questions without easy answers.

[Yote 53]

I didn't see anything wrong with the coach's response, not even the part about players getting skipped in their rotation because they are not paying attention when called upon to go in. He hints at it in his letter, he has 13 players to coordinate which is a difficult task. It's actually a bit unfair to the coaches and players to have that many on a team, so he's managing it the best he can. He's giving the kids an opportunity to get in the game but if they are aren't paying attention, well, getting skipped over is part of the learning process. You wouldn't accept your kids goofing off and not paying attention to their teachers in school, I don't see how this is any different. His focus is on practice and in developing skills and they do the best they can to try to get each player equal minutes in the games, which is the way it should be at that level. I also liked at how the word "winning" was not mentioned once in the letter.


As for the poll, I could answer multiple responses. Focus on skills (soft and technical) - yes. 2nd grade, should be fun - yes. Listen to the coach and parents can be a problem - yes. Nothing good can come from organized leagues - maybe, I guess I would say some kids are ready for organized sports at that age and some are not. Voted - Other and left my comments.

[GoYotes]

No need for kids that age to be playing organized team games with coaches and a scoreboard. Teach them a few fundamentals, dribbling skills, shooting form, etc and then let them play among themselves with just enough adult supervision to keep them safe. From experience, the kids will keep score and they will play to win.

I remember coaching my children's t-ball games when they were ages 7-8. No score was kept and I didn't keep track of the score, however, after every game, every kid on both teams knew who won the game. Nothing wrong with kids being competitive, the problem is when the adults get involved in the competition.

[gopheryote]

Please keep the thoughts coming. For a bit more clarity, by buddy asked me what I thought since my dad was a coach, and he said "I bet your dad would think this is nuts". So he (and I) are genuinely wondering if we are holding on to a standard from when we were kids in the 70s/80s where youth sports were for fun, not the machine/business it is today.

[kiyoat]

Jan 27, 2020 12:46:34 GMT -6 sdyotefan said:

...Obviously all that should be explained before a tournament at a parent/team meeting...

I think this is really the main issue.  The coach and the parents need to be on the same page right away as far as expectations.  Then there shoudn't be any surprises down the line.  If you don't agree with the coaches way of doing things, you can speak up, or maybe switch teams.  Although for stupid people, none of that will matter.

Case in point:

My son was on a competitive 10U baseball team a few years ago, where the same organization offered both rec and competitive leagues.  The coach had a parents meeting prior to the season where he explained that this is not a rec league, and that while he tries to get every kid some time at multiple positions, there should be no expectation for playing time or what position you play.

Even with that explanation there were a couple of parents that later whined and complained that their kid didn't get to pitch through the season.  Both of those kids were terrible, and probably should have just done rec league.  Those parents apparently weren't paying attention when their kid was out there struggling with the basics of catching and throwing.  And yet they thought it was the coach's fault their kid wasn't given an opportunity.  They are also the parents that somehow can't find time to take their kid to the backyard or park and just throw a ball with them so they get better.

[Yote 53]

Jan 27, 2020 13:23:29 GMT -6 gopheryote said:

Please keep the thoughts coming. For a bit more clarity, by buddy asked me what I thought since my dad was a coach, and he said "I bet your dad would think this is nuts". So he (and I) are genuinely wondering if we are holding on to a standard from when we were kids in the 70s/80s where youth sports were for fun, not the machine/business it is today.

Depends on the sport. Grew up playing hockey and at 5th grade (age 10-11) we're talking about travel Squirt and Pee Wee hockey. It's dang near exactly the same today as it was 30+ years ago. It can be very competitive and these kids compete to win. It's definitely not a kumbaya, who brought the treats level, but the kids have fun playing and competing. Timely topic as I was just at my nephew's hockey tournament in Sioux Falls this past weekend, he's 11.

Coached my oldest in youth baseball and I didn't see much difference from when I was his age. We had Little League and all-star teams. He played rec ball and Legion travel. I didn't see much difference but I know there are programs that take things much, much more seriously out there.

Honestly, I think there is too much angst about "what youth sports have become" and we have this nostalgic view how things used to be. If you've ever watched a movie like Bad News Bears or Mighty Ducks you will see that not a whole lot has changed over the decades. I could make a case that it was a heck of a lot more competitive and intense in the 70s/80s/90s than it is today, to be honest. The difference today is in kids specializing in one sport at a young age. Years ago we played all the sports, but don't kid yourself, we were just as competitive, just as intense, and we had travel teams and all-star teams back then too.