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Post by kiyoat on Sept 13, 2021 14:53:19 GMT -6
Definitely a needed fix to a dated arena....
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Post by GoYotes on Sept 13, 2021 15:12:52 GMT -6
Original Frost Arena had a capacity of 9,000 plus. Current configuration has capacity of 6,500. Once remodeled, the capacity will be further reduced to 5,500.
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Post by Yotes on Sept 13, 2021 17:48:47 GMT -6
Original Frost Arena had a capacity of 9,000 plus. Current configuration has capacity of 6,500. Once remodeled, the capacity will be further reduced to 5,500. Sure, but those 9,000 seats sucked. It was a high school gym that got way too big.
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Post by Coyote Fan on Sept 13, 2021 18:18:24 GMT -6
As a Jacks fan I would think a total capacity of only 5500 would be unacceptable. They need to just tear it down and build new on the same sight. Maybe they could use the Swiftel Center for a year. If their women ever made a long WNIT run they would probably have to turn quite a few fans away. Even some of their bigger non conference and conference games could get into the sell out territory.
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Post by coyotecrazie5 on Sept 13, 2021 18:55:13 GMT -6
It will cost $50 million to renovate and have less seats, yet the Dome upgrade which is a much more cost prohibitive DOME was a waste. That is the thought of many jacks fans, which is hypocritical. I'm sure it will be nice and is a much needed upgrade. It's a historic venue and to not keep the name in some way seems odd. Hopefully they update that piss stained yellow floor as well.
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Post by Yotes on Sept 13, 2021 21:18:37 GMT -6
It will cost $50 million to renovate and have less seats, yet the Dome upgrade which is a much more cost prohibitive DOME was a waste. That is the thought of many jacks fans, which is hypocritical. I'm sure it will be nice and is a much needed upgrade. It's a historic venue and to not keep the name in some way seems odd. Hopefully they update that piss stained yellow floor as well. I can make a much better argument that they spent way more money for a worse situation with their outdoor stadium and indoor practice barn.
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Post by Coyote Fan on Sept 13, 2021 22:56:54 GMT -6
The thing with the dome upgrade is that it put the capacity at a level which will not be reached anytime soon. It's pretty safe to say that if you are a Coyote football fan you are going to have a spot to watch the game and probably get a good seat. That can be a good thing or bad thing but the Yotes will not outgrow their stadium anytime soon as it true with the Jacks football stadium. Basketball is as big of a deal with the Jacks as it is with any other team in the Summit League and they keep shrinking their fans ability to get a ticket for their biggest games. Makes no sense to me. Sure you can make the argument of increasing demand but I would rather keep every fan happy by allowing them to attend games. The Jacks should have imploded Frost and started over. They need a capacity of about 8,000.
I have always like the Dakotadome for football. It was state of the art for many years and now it is back to that level again. Now the home field advantage is ever better. When there are truly 5,000 or more fans in the stands it is really going to be a good home field advantage. I did not realize on Saturday how few fans were actually there. It is evident when watching the replay on TV.
A renovated dome works great for SD, a renovated Frost does not work as well for SD State.
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Post by gopheryote on Sept 14, 2021 5:50:13 GMT -6
Two quick questions 1. I thought they already put this in motion a couple years ago? Even I have seen renderings - did that effort fall apart? 2. Why reno vs. build new? They are taking away it's connection to the past with the reno and name change - why not start fresh?
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Post by fightsd on Sept 14, 2021 7:27:05 GMT -6
The thing with the dome upgrade is that it put the capacity at a level which will not be reached anytime soon. It's pretty safe to say that if you are a Coyote football fan you are going to have a spot to watch the game and probably get a good seat. That can be a good thing or bad thing but the Yotes will not outgrow their stadium anytime soon as it true with the Jacks football stadium. Basketball is as big of a deal with the Jacks as it is with any other team in the Summit League and they keep shrinking their fans ability to get a ticket for their biggest games. Makes no sense to me. Sure you can make the argument of increasing demand but I would rather keep every fan happy by allowing them to attend games. The Jacks should have imploded Frost and started over. They need a capacity of about 8,000. I have always like the Dakotadome for football. It was state of the art for many years and now it is back to that level again. Now the home field advantage is ever better. When there are truly 5,000 or more fans in the stands it is really going to be a good home field advantage. I did not realize on Saturday how few fans were actually there. It is evident when watching the replay on TV. A renovated dome works great for SD, a renovated Frost does not work as well for SD State. The capacity issue is an interesting one for me. I'd argue that it's better to have a smaller venue mostly filled every week rather than a larger venue that MIGHT sell out once or twice a year. The jacks football stadium is way too big, I said that when they built it. The only games it might fill up for are NDSU and USD, and that's obviously because of opposing fans. Even if they make a playoff run, they won't fill the stadium just because of the weather and fans/students get busy with other things as you get closer to the holidays. You could argue that we added more seating than we needed to with the dome reno, but that side of the dome needed a facelift in a bad way and the most logical thing to put there was more seats. One other thought I have here: I think state has pretty much maxed out their fan potential. They have been a mainstay in media coverage and have had enough success over the past couple decades that their popularity has pretty much peaked, in my opinion. Not saying they're going to start losing fans or anything, I just don't think they have the same growth potential that USD has in terms of popularity. USD has basically been in the backseat since the D1 transition for a few reasons. 1) State made the transition first. 2) State's had more success than we have in MBB and Football. WBB, we've caught up and passed but they had success there first as well. 3) The local media likes State more than USD for whatever reason. The point is, I think USD is only a few good seasons away from really exploding in popularity and "fandom". It was mentioned on the board somewhere about how many people showed up to the games when Streveler was playing and we were headed to the playoffs. USD's attendance, unfortunately really does depend on how good the team is. We string a few big years together and the fan base will grow like crazy. I just don't think that's the case with State anymore since they've already had that success. Maybe I'm way off base here, but it made sense in my mind as I was typing it out lol.
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Post by GoYotes on Sept 14, 2021 7:37:11 GMT -6
Three thoughts on the Frost Arena renovation: 1) Granted there is some inflation to factor in, but for 66 million USD constructed a brand new arena, a new track & field facility and a new soccer facility and SDSU is spending 50 million to renovate an old arena. 2) The renovation plans are spread over 2 years to avoid disrupting the ability to continue hosting home games. Based on some of the hidden surprises that were discovered during the dome renovation, I wouldn't be surprised if they end up moving some BB games and/or VB matches to the Swiftel Center during construction. 3) Just like at Nebraska, Frost will soon be in the rear view mirror.
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Post by hoopsmom on Sept 14, 2021 10:19:39 GMT -6
I know it’s only a few games a year, but when they host rival games at Frost, they severely restrict the seats for opposing fans. When we go to all of the other summit league sites, each player is given 4 family tickets. At Frost, we only received 2 in the past. This past year, that was reduced even further. They give each women’s player 2 tickets, but we had to turn them in after our game so that the men’s parents could use our same tickets. And they weren’t close to the court, but rather up in the bleachers. Also, most of them were located past the end line of the court. Very class-less. If they reduce seating even further, they will just take more away from the opposing teams.
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Post by kiyoat on Sept 14, 2021 10:28:02 GMT -6
As a Jacks fan I would think a total capacity of only 5500 would be unacceptable. They need to just tear it down and build new on the same sight. Maybe they could use the Swiftel Center for a year. If their women ever made a long WNIT run they would probably have to turn quite a few fans away. Even some of their bigger non conference and conference games could get into the sell out territory. Interesting you would mention long WNIT runs. Both SDSU and USD have experienced those. Here's what happened. WNIT round | 2014 SDSU | 2016 USD | first (64) | 1812 | 1960 | second (32) | 2152 | 3224* | third (16) | 3320 | 2433 | quarter | 3792 | 2749 | semi | 12222** | 5080 | final |
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*was played @ Minnesota **was played at UTEP so in basically all the rounds other than the championship game, a 5,500 or 6,000 seat arena would be just fine. Better, actually, in terms of atmosphere. If the 2016 WNIT championship game were held at the SCSC, it would have been a sellout+ where they probably would have sold some standing room only tickets, or something like that. The atmosphere would have been even better than the amazing event that it was. On a side note, the WNIT run that the 2018 Coyote team went on in the SCSC (we got to the quarterfinals vs TCU), the attendance numbers were almost identical to the Jacks attendance in 2014. Those games were amazing for atmosphere.
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Post by kiyoat on Sept 14, 2021 10:38:20 GMT -6
...I'd argue that it's better to have a smaller venue mostly filled every week rather than a larger venue that MIGHT sell out once or twice a year.... I agree.... I think state has pretty much maxed out their fan potential. ... their popularity has pretty much peaked, in my opinion. I agree, and it's not just opinion. The numbers back this up. In basketball USD has now eclipsed SDSU's average home attendance in WBB for several years now. In Men's basketball, they peaked a few years ago, and I'd have to look again, but I'm pretty sure we have them beat there as well. At one point the MBB attendance numbers had declined for four years straight for the Jacks.
5,500 is a perfectly fine sized arena for them, and will probably give a better gameday atmosphere. It will be very similar to our SCSC, from the renderings. A bowl-shaped seating arrangement.
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Post by kiyoat on Sept 14, 2021 10:46:41 GMT -6
I agree, but when has that ever stopped them? At least the visiting team locker room should be better in the remodel?
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Post by kiyoat on Sept 15, 2021 10:38:56 GMT -6
Just looked back at some of the men's and women's basketball attendance data for SDSU and USD. For both programs attendance was much higher in the NCC heydays of the 80's and 90's. Even in the early 2000's in the last few years of jacks membership in the NCC, the average attendance was higher. In 2002 when Austen Hansen was a Junior, the Jacks mens team averaged 4227 at home. This number has not been replicated since.
In the Division I era, the attendance for the Jacks MBB program peaked in 2012 (3320 ave) and 2013 (3625 ave). That corresponds with Nate Wolters' Junior and Senior seasons. The average attendance in the six seasons from 2011 to 2016 was in the 2500 to 3600 range, but has gradually slipped each year since then, and lately has been hovering in the 2100 to 2400 range. Only slightly better than the USD men.
For the Women, they had two peaks, in the last three years of D-II (2002-2004) they averaged 2500 to 2600. Remember they won a D-II championship in 2003. Then they had a six-season run from 2007 to 2012 where they were averaging from 2400 to 2800 each year, but after that it has hovered around 2000. They peaked in 2009 with an average of 2803. That was the year they lost by just 2 points in the 2nd round of the tournament to Baylor. Jill Young and Maria Boever were on that team.
None of this is to dump on Jacks fans. They are obviously a good fan base that shows up consistently. But the numbers agree with the earlier point that the attendance has peaked and now normalized. 5K to 6K is probably the right size for a BB arena for both USD and SDSU right now. 3K for an average is a good goal for the women, 4K for the men. Both schools should be selling out rivalry games, and we have done that at least once recently.
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