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Post by gopheryote on Nov 2, 2021 15:14:12 GMT -6
This is certainly a hot topic, and since these things always trickle down, we are now looking at FCS schools getting invited to join FBS conferences. Ego and bad financial planning seem to drive these decisions more than anything, but that doesn't make it any less real.
Obviously, the one most talked about scenario for MVFC schools is NDSU seeking a FB-only invite to just about any FBS conference that will take them. There is also some talk about since they would go, they should bring SDSU along for some reason. (Though, if everyone was being honest, it seems that is because any potential FBS conference would be awful, so let's drag along a rival so fan interest doesn't drop to zero.)
Which seems to bring up 2 questions for Yotes fans:
1. If NDSU (and/or SDSU) went FBS in football-only, would the rest of the Summit still want them in the conference for non-football sports?
2. If this is a total shake up like what happened 15 or so years ago where everyone moves up a level, how excited would you be to support a move to some version of G5/FCS?
My initial take:
1. No thanks. If the cash windfall of FBS is true, why on earth would non-FBS schools without that cash windfall want to compete against FBS money/resources in non-revenue sports?
2. As silly as it seems when you zoom out a bit, I can certainly see the Dakota schools, UNI, and Ill St/Mizz St. (if those two aren't snatched up first) joining a yet-to-be-official 2nd tier below the P5. Some spending would have to be increased, I would guess, but that group would likely be closer to the 1-AA groups of 25 years ago, not the P5. As much as the App St/Marshall/GA St.'s try to get away from being thought of as peers with MVFC schools, it seems likely that is where it lands.
Thoughts?
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Post by kiyoat on Nov 2, 2021 15:32:06 GMT -6
Holy hell. We are just now seeing some progress in catching up with FCS/mid-major D-1 competitiveness, and I haven't seen the figures, but I doubt we are very close financially to make a jump like that. No Thanks. This is way different than the jump from D-II NCC to D-1 FCS. The old NCC had outgrown D-II for decades.
OTOH, playing against the Dakota 4 matters to fans. splitting up again would pretty much suck.
I think this kinda boils down to football vs the rest of the athletic department. Building a football program is like high-stakes gambling. Huge cost, with an occasional huge reward.
Plenty of schools that have regretted putting all their eggs in that basket.
Some of our programs would benefit hugely from membership in a bigger/better conference. Our WBB and Volleyball programs are already there, competitively. MBB can get very good in short order with more investment. The amount of money needed to field a competitive G5 football program? I'm not sure it exists here.
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Post by kiyoat on Nov 2, 2021 15:38:08 GMT -6
About the only conference upgrade that would interest me would be full MVC membership. Outside of that, and the geography just makes no sense (and is expensive).
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Post by Yote 53 on Nov 2, 2021 16:03:04 GMT -6
NDSU is not getting an FBS only invite. There are only two schools in the country with a football only arrangement like that, Hawaii and Navy.
If the Dakota schools/MVFC schools decide to move up to FBS we should make the move as well. The G5 will be the second level of football and that is where we belong.
We've made this mistake once before. Let's not do it again.
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Post by Yotes on Nov 2, 2021 19:47:48 GMT -6
Any existing FBS conference would have to be very desperate to invite NDSU.
It would be incredibly dumb for NDSU to accept that invite.
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Post by gopheryote on Nov 3, 2021 11:09:39 GMT -6
If the Dakota schools/MVFC schools decide to move up to FBS we should make the move as well. The G5 will be the second level of football and that is where we belong. We've made this mistake once before. Let's not do it again. I tend to think this is where things are heading also - but I hope it isn't right now. Let the P5 money grab/split get settled so the landscape of the 2nd tier is settled a bit. No need to shoot for a $65 million athletic budget if we are really just going to end up with some version of G5 + FCS. |
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Post by Yote 53 on Nov 3, 2021 11:16:59 GMT -6
All this stuff really makes you look at the landscape of things and where USD (and the other Dakota schools) fit in the landscape of things. We've all sold ourselves short for many years. I look at it now and we should be at the MAC level of schools, at least. Look at some of the schools in the MAC, Sun Belt, and even MWC, and then those that are being asked to move up to CUSA. No reason the Dakota schools should not be at the G5 level which is becoming that "second level" of football very, very quickly.
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Post by fightsd on Nov 4, 2021 7:12:51 GMT -6
All this stuff really makes you look at the landscape of things and where USD (and the other Dakota schools) fit in the landscape of things. We've all sold ourselves short for many years. I look at it now and we should be at the MAC level of schools, at least. Look at some of the schools in the MAC, Sun Belt, and even MWC, and then those that are being asked to move up to CUSA. No reason the Dakota schools should not be at the G5 level which is becoming that "second level" of football very, very quickly. This is pretty much where I land on the subject. In terms of competitive play, the Dakota 4 schools are basically on par with the G5 conferences. If you put USD in the MAC or the Sun Belt right now, I don't think there'd be a noticeable difference in talent level in any of the big sports. We would hold our own right away. I think the big factor here is the budget. Can we financially support playing in the FBS? I don't think so at this point. We're right where we should be at this point in time. If the time comes where State announces they're going to FBS, we should hold the presser the next day to do the same thing. The biggest mistake we could make would be to watch them go FBS and not join at the same time. We'll be years behind, just like we were/still are from the D1 transition. Honestly, it would be a pretty attractive proposition to a G5 conference after the landscape settles down a little bit if they could add the 4 Dakota schools at the same time. |
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Post by Coyote Fan on Nov 5, 2021 0:21:46 GMT -6
Whatever happens in all of this I want SD to take their destiny in their own hands and not play follow the leader all the time. Augie now has hockey in this state. SD had the chance to make that their own path but were beaten to the punch. I guess SD has it's own path in the pole vault but unfortunately no one really cares about that and is really a sport within a sport.
At this point in time Women's athletics is the thing at SD like it or not. Raise that level to a better conference where they can play schools closer to their ability and success. I don't want this University to put too much money into football because it hasn't worked in the past and who knows about the future. I would rather pay Dawn Plitzuweit a huge salary to get her to stay if she even considered leaving even if it is at the expense of another sport. Same with volleyball, soccer, softball etc. SD is something like 60% female. Invest in Women's Athletics.
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Post by Yotes on Nov 6, 2021 8:37:04 GMT -6
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Post by fightsd on Nov 7, 2021 22:07:55 GMT -6
Whatever happens in all of this I want SD to take their destiny in their own hands and not play follow the leader all the time. Augie now has hockey in this state. SD had the chance to make that their own path but were beaten to the punch. I guess SD has it's own path in the pole vault but unfortunately no one really cares about that and is really a sport within a sport. At this point in time Women's athletics is the thing at SD like it or not. Raise that level to a better conference where they can play schools closer to their ability and success. I don't want this University to put too much money into football because it hasn't worked in the past and who knows about the future. I would rather pay Dawn Plitzuweit a huge salary to get her to stay if she even considered leaving even if it is at the expense of another sport. Same with volleyball, soccer, softball etc. SD is something like 60% female. Invest in Women's Athletics. You wanted to put a hockey arena in Vermillion? Come on. I guess I don't understand what you're saying as far as WBB goes. Are you suggesting the university ask for an invite to a bigger conference based on WBB success? What conference would even be attractive for that? And what about the rest of the sports? Geographically the only conference that could even make sense would be the MVC. The level of play in that conference isn't really any better than the one we're in now and by joining you've taken away the rivalry with SDSU that has created the interest in WBB at the University and in the state as a whole. Like it or not, we're better off sticking with the rest of the Dakota Schools. |
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Post by Coyote Fan on Nov 8, 2021 2:15:19 GMT -6
I meant that hockey arena was to be built in Sioux Falls and the hockey program would have played their games in Sioux Falls as well.
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Post by Yotes on Nov 10, 2021 20:36:34 GMT -6
I'm just now seeing that Sam Houston State has accepted a move to Conference USA, along with Jacksonville State. This comes 4 months after SHSU accepted an invitation to restart WAC football at the FCS level.
This landscape is a mess.
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Post by Coyote Fan on Nov 11, 2021 0:07:00 GMT -6
NDSU and SDSU want to move up and leave the rest of the conference behind. That is why I think SD needs to do what is best for themselves. Whatever that is it is but SD needs to be forward thinking not reactive. They can't assume that they will always be attached to the hip of SDSU.
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Post by fightsd on Nov 11, 2021 6:56:48 GMT -6
NDSU and SDSU want to move up and leave the rest of the conference behind. That is why I think SD needs to do what is best for themselves. Whatever that is it is but SD needs to be forward thinking not reactive. They can't assume that they will always be attached to the hip of SDSU. What are you basing that assumption on? Have you read somewhere that they're looking for invitations? They know they're right where they should be. If for some reason they announce they're looking to move up, we better figure out a way to get that invitation as well. That is what's best for USD. Keep the rivalries together. It was a mistake not moving up to D1 when state did 20 years ago, we were left behind and are still trying to catch up in a lot of ways. Going rogue and trying to find a conference by ourselves is going to tank casual fan interest and in turn finances. |
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