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Post by fightsd on Mar 10, 2022 22:26:31 GMT -6
Hearing rumors of off the court issue(s). Otherwise I have a hard time with the firing. COY last season and 19 wins this year. His recruiting has been suspect, but he's a good coach as far as I'm concerned. I hope they hire an ambitious guy ready to win. If it is in fact about off the court stuff, this feels a little like the Meierkort firing - guy was a decent coach they just couldn't look past some personal stuff. From there we hired Joe Glenn who was little more than a USD mascot. Let's get somebody that wants to win, not a feel good guy.
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Post by elcoyote on Mar 10, 2022 23:30:23 GMT -6
This is so incredibly f@#king stupid. Wonder whose bright idea this was? Way to kick yourself in your own ass USD. Only acceptable reason would be off court conduct and I haven't heard of anything besides that incident a few years ago. It's really hard to keep secrets in this town too. I'm going to respectfully disagree. There's some very ominous credence to this decision. Lee inherited a team that was flying high. Look at the roster 4 years into his tenure. This was not working. We keep diving deep into the JUCOs and have so very few 4-year players. The results we have had in this conference do not match the resources. There have been some tough breaks, but nothing outrageous. AJ is just one guy, and a guy at a position we had the least drop off. The team can't live and die with one player this far into a coach's tenure. I'm stunned Herbster made the decision and could justify the buyout. You either live with a tough situation or make a tough decision. A tough decision was made. I will also respectfully disagree. What's not working? You seem to have some dislike for Lee which is your prerogative, but I don't get it. Being hired in April, his first year he had zero chance at a recruiting class and Smith took two signees to USU with him and then Griesel went to NDSU. Who are you going to get in April? Those would have been this season's seniors. The 'Yotes would have been or should be one of the top teams in the Summit next season. The new guy better produce unless everyone bails and then it's back to square one again. Enjoy mediocrity for another few years until it's rebuilt.
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Post by Yotes on Mar 11, 2022 5:09:14 GMT -6
Year 4 and we have no more than 3 players recruited out of high school contributing. What is there to rebuild? The roster turns over so quickly the way Lee has built it that he himself has to rebuild way too often.
Lee's first recruiting class had no chance outside of the transfer market, and he did bring in Kelley in that class, but there's been 3 classes since with very little fruit.
Lee seems to get credit for being a good coach. Can we look back at some of the talent he squandered?
Year 1 - Starting Umude, Simpson, Peterson, TBM, and Kelley. 5 guys that make a very solid starting lineup. We lose 96-70 in the 1st round of SLT.
Year 2 - Starting Umude, Simpson, Peterson, Hagedorn, and Kelley. Even more solid lineup and more depth. Get embarrassed by UND in 1st round again.
I've pretty much been done with Lee since that point. Year 3 turned out better than I expected. Umude and AJ were great complements to each other, but I still have to qualify that as a predecessor's recruit and then plain dumb luck that AJ is even on the roster.
Year 4 and we still are making excuses for Lee. AJ is one guy, and we had some very capable guard play in his absence. Umude left but wasn't supposed to be eligible at this point and wouldn't have impacted past recruiting cycles. Where are all of the guys that should be filling the roster by this point?
The Todd Lee era was one long running disappointment for me. I'm excited for the future.
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Post by notkiotees on Mar 11, 2022 5:39:08 GMT -6
I wish cf was here to tell us how he feels about the change.
Said no one ever!
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Post by fightsd on Mar 11, 2022 7:56:26 GMT -6
Year 4 and we have no more than 3 players recruited out of high school contributing. What is there to rebuild? The roster turns over so quickly the way Lee has built it that he himself has to rebuild way too often. Lee's first recruiting class had no chance outside of the transfer market, and he did bring in Kelley in that class, but there's been 3 classes since with very little fruit. Lee seems to get credit for being a good coach. Can we look back at some of the talent he squandered? Year 1 - Starting Umude, Simpson, Peterson, TBM, and Kelley. 5 guys that make a very solid starting lineup. We lose 96-70 in the 1st round of SLT. Year 2 - Starting Umude, Simpson, Peterson, Hagedorn, and Kelley. Even more solid lineup and more depth. Get embarrassed by UND in 1st round again. I've pretty much been done with Lee since that point. Year 3 turned out better than I expected. Umude and AJ were great complements to each other, but I still have to qualify that as a predecessor's recruit and then plain dumb luck that AJ is even on the roster. Year 4 and we still are making excuses for Lee. AJ is one guy, and we had some very capable guard play in his absence. Umude left but wasn't supposed to be eligible at this point and wouldn't have impacted past recruiting cycles. Where are all of the guys that should be filling the roster by this point? The Todd Lee era was one long running disappointment for me. I'm excited for the future. I think we all feel like the recruiting has been his biggest shortcoming, but as a coach I think he accomplished as much as he could have with the roster he put together. There have been some disappointing SLT losses, but I have a hard time judging an entire body of work based on a few losses at the end of the season. I mean there's only 1 team in the country that finishes their season on a win. I'm also excited for the future, but the firing just feels a little weird. I'm not going to spread rumors on here, but it sounds like a lot of people in Vermillion and on campus won't be sad to see him leave.
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Post by usdguy99 on Mar 11, 2022 8:03:34 GMT -6
While the on-court success (or lack of) may be a factor in this decision, I think there was enough off-the-court issues that helped drive this decision. The COVID situation has me wondering about protocols, the Bruns kid entering the portal at the same time as his brother is being recruited has me wondering about tampering, the 2 week "vacation" Lee had to take this past summer has me wondering what happened off-campus at a local establishment, hiring and having a young man move from AZ to be the DBO after being told of a hiring freeze has me wondering about policy violations, etc.
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Post by teamsd on Mar 11, 2022 8:17:07 GMT -6
Soooo…is this the place to talk replacement? Or a different thread ? Would love to hear some more names
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Post by elcoyote on Mar 11, 2022 8:48:55 GMT -6
Year 4 and we have no more than 3 players recruited out of high school contributing. What is there to rebuild? The roster turns over so quickly the way Lee has built it that he himself has to rebuild way too often. Lee's first recruiting class had no chance outside of the transfer market, and he did bring in Kelley in that class, but there's been 3 classes since with very little fruit. Lee seems to get credit for being a good coach. Can we look back at some of the talent he squandered? Year 1 - Starting Umude, Simpson, Peterson, TBM, and Kelley. 5 guys that make a very solid starting lineup. We lose 96-70 in the 1st round of SLT. Year 2 - Starting Umude, Simpson, Peterson, Hagedorn, and Kelley. Even more solid lineup and more depth. Get embarrassed by UND in 1st round again. I've pretty much been done with Lee since that point. Year 3 turned out better than I expected. Umude and AJ were great complements to each other, but I still have to qualify that as a predecessor's recruit and then plain dumb luck that AJ is even on the roster. Year 4 and we still are making excuses for Lee. AJ is one guy, and we had some very capable guard play in his absence. Umude left but wasn't supposed to be eligible at this point and wouldn't have impacted past recruiting cycles. Where are all of the guys that should be filling the roster by this point? The Todd Lee era was one long running disappointment for me. I'm excited for the future. Everyone is, hopefully, coming back next season. Talent squandered? Umude: obvious superstar that Smith never even used even though he was his own recruit. How did he get so good under Lee all of a sudden? Simpson: nice player, probably average to above average in this league. Peterson: no, not even average league player. TBM: total blue collar, loved the guy, above average league player Kelly: forgot he even existed. Hagedorn: very good, all conference caliber. Other than Umude and Hagedorn I'm not seeing at talent being squandered. Very little fruit brought in? So Fuller, Perot-Hunt, Archambeaux, AJ, Goodrick and Boogie are no good. Two of them are from South Dakota too. Kid coming next season from Iowa is supposed to be a total stud too. If Summit League Tourney success is what you base everything on, I hope you were equally down on Smith as a coach and were happy to see him go. We'll just have to agree to disagree and leave it at that. That being said, if this is because of off the court issues it may be a different story, although I don't think some cryptic tweets about tampering from some pissed off nobody in Grand Forks should bear any weight at all. I'd heard back in January that Bruns hated it up there and that he'd be gone.
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Post by usdcoyote on Mar 11, 2022 8:59:28 GMT -6
Even though I think everyone was eligible to come back next year we will have some guys that are leaving, and that was going to be the case whether we kept Lee or not. I don't think Lee was ever going to recruit at a high level. And without being able to do that it was going to be tough to get to where we needed to go. I think we would be left at the end of a lot of seasons saying "well, he did the most with what he had. He really maximized his roster." But like many others, I don't think it was his on the court performance that got him fired. This does feel similar to the Ed firing.
I am very excited to see who the candidates end up being. I'm assuming it will be an assortment of Power 5 assistants that I haven't heard of. I know someone suggested Tim Miles, while I would love to have Miles and I do think USD is better than San Jose, I don't think there is any way he would leave the Mountain West for the Summit. I am hoping for a young guy with lots of energy (even knowing that he won't be here long if he has good success). And a little off topic, but I'm also hoping we can get Paul Bruns. Not sure if Lee being gone will help or hurt, but I would like to see him at USD and that would greatly increase our chances of getting Isaac Bruns who is even better.
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Lee's out
Mar 11, 2022 9:02:59 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by teamsd on Mar 11, 2022 9:02:59 GMT -6
“He did great with what he had.” Is an indictment of his ability to coach and recruit. Thankful for his efforts, but it’s time to move on. I want to win summit league tournaments every year. To this point, after four years, we have regressed.
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Post by golfingyote on Mar 11, 2022 9:15:06 GMT -6
Year 4 and we have no more than 3 players recruited out of high school contributing. What is there to rebuild? The roster turns over so quickly the way Lee has built it that he himself has to rebuild way too often. Lee's first recruiting class had no chance outside of the transfer market, and he did bring in Kelley in that class, but there's been 3 classes since with very little fruit. Lee seems to get credit for being a good coach. Can we look back at some of the talent he squandered? Year 1 - Starting Umude, Simpson, Peterson, TBM, and Kelley. 5 guys that make a very solid starting lineup. We lose 96-70 in the 1st round of SLT. Year 2 - Starting Umude, Simpson, Peterson, Hagedorn, and Kelley. Even more solid lineup and more depth. Get embarrassed by UND in 1st round again. I've pretty much been done with Lee since that point. Year 3 turned out better than I expected. Umude and AJ were great complements to each other, but I still have to qualify that as a predecessor's recruit and then plain dumb luck that AJ is even on the roster. Year 4 and we still are making excuses for Lee. AJ is one guy, and we had some very capable guard play in his absence. Umude left but wasn't supposed to be eligible at this point and wouldn't have impacted past recruiting cycles. Where are all of the guys that should be filling the roster by this point? The Todd Lee era was one long running disappointment for me. I'm excited for the future. Admittedly, I had forgotten how full the cupboard was when Lee started. Losing Mooney was the big sting in year one, but still had ample firepower to compete. That year 2 loss in the SLT was unacceptable. Never been more upset after a SLT game. SDSU lost the first round too so the tourney was wide open. Ultimately, there were certainly concerns off the course both with incidents and personality. In the end, you can maybe survive one of those two (on court success with off court issues). But, you can not survive questions around both. I dont buy the "tampering" stuff. this is college basketball and a business. Anyone who thinks there are not conversations, even if through a third party, happening then you haven't been paying attention to the sport. Doesnt make it right, but its happening constantly. As for a new coach, I would like to see a younger coach with a history of recruiting success preferably with knowledge of this area. Prior head coaching experience a huge plus also. Greg Lansing Eric Petersen Those are the local tie names if we could ever land a big time assistant ala Brian Michaelson of Gonzaga I think thats a home run hire too. Those types usually hold out for the "perfect" job though. I am pretty lukewarm on the Joe Krabbenhoft talk.
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Post by usdguy99 on Mar 11, 2022 9:36:31 GMT -6
Year 4 and we have no more than 3 players recruited out of high school contributing. What is there to rebuild? The roster turns over so quickly the way Lee has built it that he himself has to rebuild way too often. Lee's first recruiting class had no chance outside of the transfer market, and he did bring in Kelley in that class, but there's been 3 classes since with very little fruit. Lee seems to get credit for being a good coach. Can we look back at some of the talent he squandered? Year 1 - Starting Umude, Simpson, Peterson, TBM, and Kelley. 5 guys that make a very solid starting lineup. We lose 96-70 in the 1st round of SLT. Year 2 - Starting Umude, Simpson, Peterson, Hagedorn, and Kelley. Even more solid lineup and more depth. Get embarrassed by UND in 1st round again. I've pretty much been done with Lee since that point. Year 3 turned out better than I expected. Umude and AJ were great complements to each other, but I still have to qualify that as a predecessor's recruit and then plain dumb luck that AJ is even on the roster. Year 4 and we still are making excuses for Lee. AJ is one guy, and we had some very capable guard play in his absence. Umude left but wasn't supposed to be eligible at this point and wouldn't have impacted past recruiting cycles. Where are all of the guys that should be filling the roster by this point? The Todd Lee era was one long running disappointment for me. I'm excited for the future. Admittedly, I had forgotten how full the cupboard was when Lee started. Losing Mooney was the big sting in year one, but still had ample firepower to compete. That year 2 loss in the SLT was unacceptable. Never been more upset after a SLT game. SDSU lost the first round too so the tourney was wide open. Ultimately, there were certainly concerns off the course both with incidents and personality. In the end, you can maybe survive one of those two (on court success with off court issues). But, you can not survive questions around both. I dont buy the "tampering" stuff. this is college basketball and a business. Anyone who thinks there are not conversations, even if through a third party, happening then you haven't been paying attention to the sport. Doesnt make it right, but its happening constantly. As for a new coach, I would like to see a younger coach with a history of recruiting success preferably with knowledge of this area. Prior head coaching experience a huge plus also. Greg Lansing Eric Petersen Those are the local tie names if we could ever land a big time assistant ala Brian Michaelson of Gonzaga I think thats a home run hire too. Those types usually hold out for the "perfect" job though. I am pretty lukewarm on the Joe Krabbenhoft talk. I do not disagree that tampering or improper conversations happen every day in college athletics. However, it is those type of things that will allow a university to get out from paying the remainder of a contract.
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Post by captaincoyote on Mar 11, 2022 9:46:12 GMT -6
Before this, I would have guessed that Lee had at least another season left to see what he can do with an experienced and healthy roster of his players, but I don't at all mind the AD being proactive and decisive. I also agree with others that this smells like more than just on court performance. He must have worn out his welcome.
If we can't find a perfect candidate like Coach P who would be willing to forgo big offers to build a dynasty, then I'd prefer a revolving door of exciting up-and-comers over another mid-to-late career "respected in the industry" type coach.
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Post by kiyoat on Mar 11, 2022 9:53:24 GMT -6
Soooo…is this the place to talk replacement? Or a different thread ? Would love to hear some more names I don't think we need to police it. Whatever folks want to do. Discuss it here or start a new thread.
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Lee's out
Mar 11, 2022 9:54:55 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by teamsd on Mar 11, 2022 9:54:55 GMT -6
Soooo…is this the place to talk replacement? Or a different thread ? Would love to hear some more names I don't think we need to police it. Whatever folks want to do. Discuss it here or start a new thread. Sounds good to me!
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