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Post by kiyoat on Oct 25, 2022 8:39:07 GMT -6
I'm creating this thread for two reasons:
1. to gauge opinion (and see how that changes over time)
2. to try and keep coach firing talk out of game threads
So you can vote now, and change it later if your opinion changes. (It will lock on November 20th at noon). Please take this opportunity to discuss your thoughts on a coaching change in this thread rather than the game or recruiting threads. Or don't. Do whatever you like. Hopefully a poll might shed some light on the general mood, and foster discussion.
This is not meant to encourage divisiveness, or pitchfork/torch carrying among fans. Clearly that sentiment is already out there. It's just an attempt to re-direct the discussion, so a recruiting thread can talk about recruiting, and a game thread can talk about the game. Etc.
Have fun.
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Post by kiyoat on Oct 25, 2022 8:44:30 GMT -6
My personal opinion, informed by some who know more than I do, is that we as an athletic department really don't have the funds available to continue to fire coaches without ironclad reasons. That doesn't mean that coaches should get a free pass to fail, but I do think that there needs to be a very good reason to hit that button. JMO
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dbyote
Senior Member
Posts: 519
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Post by dbyote on Oct 25, 2022 9:14:44 GMT -6
I could go either way on this. They failed the eye test miserably the first half of the season but last game they looked much better. Someone closer to the situation is better positioned to make these decisions. I know I'm not qualified as an armchair quarterback but I do know enough xs and is and strategy to know good or bad football. We've played both this year.
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Post by coffeedrinker11 on Oct 25, 2022 10:13:44 GMT -6
Thank you for starting this thread. I am tired of expecting to read about a particular game and half the discussion is about firing the coach. Let the people we pay to make those decisions, make them.
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Post by GoYotes on Oct 25, 2022 10:27:48 GMT -6
We need to remember that having to get rid of the OC after only two games put the football program in a really tough position, especially given the way our schedule was front end loaded. If we can finish the season strong and end up with 5 or 6 wins, it could be argued that this is one of Bob's best coaching jobs ever.
If we finish the season strong, which I believe we will, I am strongly in favor of keeping Bob as head coach and letting him select a new OC and making some other changes/ reshuffling of the offensive staff.
With the new reality of the transfer portal and the early signing date for new recruits, whatever changes we make need to be done as soon as possible so that the new staff is in place almost immediately after the end of the current season.
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Post by Yotes on Oct 25, 2022 10:44:34 GMT -6
Wait until the end of the year and reasses. That's my opinion.
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Post by Yote 53 on Oct 25, 2022 10:45:21 GMT -6
More information is needed. We need to see how this season plays out. We saw a QB change and an instant turnaround from the offense. Defense has been solid this season. If that team shows up the rest of the way and we win out or go 3-1 with a close loss then I'd feel better about the direction. At that point I'd be on board with staying the course with Bob and allowing him to revamp the offensive coaching staff in the off-season.
If you are in the camp that wants to fire him you have a couple of things to consider. 1) Money. It doesn't just grow on trees and we'd have to pay a buyout plus a new hire. 2) What kind of coach would you get to replace Bob? If I'm a prospective candidate I see the USD job in this light. You just fired a coach who is coming off a playoff year, had a rough start to the season with the schedule and personnel issues, but seems to have turned it around (assuming we finish the year solid). Why is that not good enough? Also, I'd be looking at the conference and where USD sits and can I win there. More important, what are these fans expectations and can I meet them? Am I going to get dumped too and end up killing my career progress? You can't just fire a coach to fire a coach because you're not happy with the results, there is a lot more that goes into it like who can you get to replace him and would it be an upgrade. You really need to consider the ramifications and if it will set the program back.
Maybe the answer is to hope for a good end to the season. Let Bob run it back with a revamped offense for next season and beyond. When his term comes up you have the talk about his retirement and transition to a new coach. He pretty much said he wants to retire here. In that scenario the program would be on solid ground and be attractive for the next hire to take it to another level.
The problem we have is success in this region is defined by the 800 lb gorilla in the room that is NDSU. No other conference has to deal with them and that standard of success. We're literally talking about to contend for an MVFC title you have to be a national title contender, and not just one season, like literally every season for a decade. We bang our heads against the wall and ask why we can't compete with them. Well, let's ask, who else can and is? SDSU can beat them sometimes, not when it counts in the playoffs. The rest of the FCS loses to them every single year.
Hey, I want a program that competes at that level and wins and beats NDSU and makes it really hard for them to win the conference and in the playoffs. But I also don't want to destroy the program by crashing it into the rocks every time we feel it's falling short.
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Post by azsod73 on Oct 25, 2022 11:17:17 GMT -6
A couple things.
I have heard from a fairly high level source that the USD Foundation guarantees long-term contracts for coaches. Not exactly sure how that plays out in the termination of a coach, but I took that to mean the money (contract payout) didn't come from the athletic department. My understanding of that matter could be wrong.
Would we ever let Bob's contract run out? I think we normally keep extending contracts to be able to tell recruits the coaching staff is stable and secure.
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Post by fromthetailgate on Oct 25, 2022 14:22:59 GMT -6
I too am wavering on Bob, but let's see how it plays out for the rest of this year. Have to be careful what you wish for. I'm guessing we are on the lower end of the D1AA pay scale, so finding a good new coach will always be a challenge (probably). Ideal scenario would be to finish this year strong, then a great next year with the weaker schedule, then Bob retire and ride off into the sunset.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2022 14:41:09 GMT -6
I’m sure there is a financial burden to buyout any FCS coach. Coach Nielson’s contract is up after next season. That’s a fact. 2023 is the last season under his current contract.
I know it was discussed before but it looks obvious that they don’t plan to renew his contract. In 2021 he took the team to the playoffs and hosted a home playoff game. 2nd time in 4 seasons at that point. What else would he have to do to get an extension? Simple observation is there is not a plan to renew him. Unfair IMO but that’s just mine.
No other programs in the Valley have the instability created with a coach whose contract is expiring. If the plan is to attract a high quality offensive coordinator, how do we expect to do that in the current situation? What would be attractive or provide enough security to someone to leave their (assumed successful) career to go to Vermillion for one guaranteed year and no promise of future security?
Are we already burying the program not having more stability in it?
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Post by Yotes on Oct 25, 2022 14:41:12 GMT -6
I too am wavering on Bob, but let's see how it plays out for the rest of this year. Have to be careful what you wish for. I'm guessing we are on the lower end of the D1AA pay scale, so finding a good new coach will always be a challenge (probably). Ideal scenario would be to finish this year strong, then a great next year with the weaker schedule, then Bob retire and ride off into the sunset. Regarding pay, and without doing any research, I doubt we are low in the FCS ranks. Just look at the facilities most of the FCS is working with. I would guess we are easily top 25. But so is every other team in the MVFC (besides maybe WIU).
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Post by 88grad on Oct 25, 2022 15:06:03 GMT -6
Firing is a tough word. I would prefer if Bob decided to call it a career and bow out. I doubt that will happen. There are some intriguing former Yotes out there in the coaching ranks that I would like to see considered for moving this team forward: Jim Glowgoski (DC-UNO); Byron Thomas (Minot St); Wes Beschorner (UW Eau Claire). I've always been a strong and vocal advocate for seeing if Kurtiss Riggs has any interest in returning to 100 yard football.
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Post by kiyoat on Oct 25, 2022 15:28:06 GMT -6
I too am wavering on Bob, but let's see how it plays out for the rest of this year. Have to be careful what you wish for. I'm guessing we are on the lower end of the D1AA pay scale, so finding a good new coach will always be a challenge (probably). Ideal scenario would be to finish this year strong, then a great next year with the weaker schedule, then Bob retire and ride off into the sunset. Regarding pay, and without doing any research, I doubt we are low in the FCS ranks. Just look at the facilities most of the FCS is working with. I would guess we are easily top 25. But so is every other team in the MVFC (besides maybe WIU). Here's an article on the MVFC from March of 2020 undfootball360.com/und-gives-schweigert-contract-extension/So at that time he was top-5 MVFC, at least in base pay. Staff pay and contract bonuses might lift NDSU/SDSU in overall football budget, I would guess. If he was top-5 MVFC, I'm sure he was easily top-10 FCS.
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Post by usdcoyote on Oct 25, 2022 15:33:27 GMT -6
Riggs would be great, but I have a feeling he's going to end up in Washington with Deboer.
I'm fine with giving Bob until the end of the year to see if we turn things around, and if money is a concern in terms of firing him then I would understand that. Right now I would certainly prefer a different coach, but I also understand the financial problems that we might have, and if we have to wait until his contract is up then it is what it is. It's not like Bob has been a disaster, but we also can't sit here and paint it like it's just NDSU that we can't get by. Year by year finishes in the Missouri Valley have looked like this under Bob: '16 Tied for 6th; '17 Tied for 5th; '18 Tied for 6th, '19 Tied for 6th; '20 Tied for 7th; '21 Tied for 3rd; and right now we sit in 8th but I think we are all holding out hope that we can improve on that. Should we be doing that much worse than SDSU? I don't think so.
However, if Bouman isn't starting on Saturday then I take everything back. If that happens then I will no longer support keeping Bob around until the end of the year. lol
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Post by elcoyote on Oct 25, 2022 15:51:10 GMT -6
I’m sure there is a financial burden to buyout any FCS coach. Coach Nielson’s contract is up after next season. That’s a fact. 2023 is the last season under his current contract. I know it was discussed before but it looks obvious that they don’t plan to renew his contract. In 2021 he took the team to the playoffs and hosted a home playoff game. 2nd time in 4 seasons at that point. What else would he have to do to get an extension? Simple observation is there is not a plan to renew him. Unfair IMO but that’s just mine. No other programs in the Valley have the instability created with a coach whose contract is expiring. If the plan is to attract a high quality offensive coordinator, how do we expect to do that in the current situation? What would be attractive or provide enough security to someone to leave their (assumed successful) career to go to Vermillion for one guaranteed year and no promise of future security?
Are we already burying the program not having more stability in it? How about hiring an offensive coordinator with the promise that he would assume the head coaching position when Nielson "retires" at the end of the 2023 season? That way we keep the defensive staff intact and have a smooth transition. For better or worse, I imagine Nielson is going to be gone at some point soon. He's turning 65 and you'd think at some point soon he's like to sit back and just take it easy, unless he aspires to be the second coming of Amos Alonzo Stagg.
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