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Post by gorabbits on Feb 15, 2015 22:20:09 GMT -6
Apparently this is pretty much a done deal. The Jacks and Bison will be joining the Big 12 next year for wrestling. Giant step up for the program.
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Post by yote14 on Feb 16, 2015 10:40:57 GMT -6
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Post by yotefan on Feb 16, 2015 10:57:21 GMT -6
Isn't this more of a lateral move for both schools than a step up? NDSU and SDSU will be going from the Western wrestling conference (currently composed of NDSU, SDSU, Utah Valley, Northern Colorado, Air Force and Wyoming) to the Big 12 (comprised of only 4 schools with Oklahoma State, Oklahoma, Iowa State and West Virginia). I visited the Western WC web site and saw that the Jacks drew a record crowd this weekend of 918 at a dual following a mens basketball game in which they beat the Stanford wrestling team. First, that is very cool, no matter what your school affiliations, but does a change in conference affiliation do anything for you there? Second, SD has always had some really good wrestling talent, but I don't know that this will help with recruiting or branding by a huge leap any more than before, which is something always considered when changing conferences. But, third, with only 73-79 schools (depending on where you look) left with D-1 wrestling programs, isn't this just a sign of the times more than anything as more schools drop wrestling and doesn't this potentially increase travel expenses at the same time? I see Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, and UNI also have wrestling programs, but the Oklahoma schools and West Virginia are a lot further away. Interesting stuff either way. www.westernwrestlingconference.com/sports/m-wrestl/spec-rel/021415aaa.htmlmwolverine.com/Division_I_Wrestling.html
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Post by Yote 53 on Feb 16, 2015 11:17:45 GMT -6
Huge step up. Okie State is one of the top historical wrestling schools in the country, right up there with Iowa. ISU and OU are also good wrestling schools. Not sure about WVU. The SU's are in a conference with some big boys.
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Post by GoYotes on Feb 16, 2015 12:42:54 GMT -6
Not directly related to wrestling, but I remember reading that the NCAA may no longer consider equestrian a qualifying sport. If SDSU is forced to drop their equestrian program, what will they do to maintain Title 9 requirements?
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Post by Yotes on Feb 16, 2015 13:36:17 GMT -6
Title needs to be changed. Putting one incredibly niche sport in a conference doesn't really mean joining it.
Fun move for the fans, but this is absolutely a sign of the times over all else.
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Post by gorabbits on Feb 16, 2015 14:31:35 GMT -6
Many of the comments above have some legitimacy. Historically the big 12 has been the premiere wrestling conferences. Iowa state has won more national championships than any other school in the nation. And OK state ranks third and Oklahoma 4th, (Iowa is 2nd). However the big 12 conference dropped in numbers for wrestling when Missouri and Nebraska left so was in need of numbers, so it is also a sign of the times in some respects. But any time you can join a power 5 conference for any sport,it is certainly a very positive move. And the opportunity to compete at this level will aid recruiting. This year's sophomore class of wrestlers at SDSU was ranked as the 6th best recruiting class in the nation that year. Wyoming and Air Force are also joining so it will certainly be a strong conference. Currently OK State, Iowa State and Wyoming are nationally ranked. If SDSU beats NDSU next week,we will tie for the current conference championship.
As to equestrian,it is my understanding that SDSU is considering it's options. One would be to continue to compete as long as the other schools do even without NCAA sanctions. This wouldn't effect title 9 compliance since title 9 is a federal issue not an NCAA issue. The other options would be looking at another sport to offer or dropping a men's sport which I think is highly unlikely. I don't know what other women's sports might be under consideration. My GUESS is that equestrian will continue for at least the near future. There has been a pretty high level of alumni financial support up to this point.
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jackjd
Senior Member
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Post by jackjd on Feb 16, 2015 15:37:46 GMT -6
My understanding is consistent with the above comment from gorabbits: Title IX compliance is based on federal law and if scholarships are awarded for a sport that is no longer on the list of NCAA-sanctioned sports, they are still included in determination of Title IX compliance. If that understanding is incorrect and Title IX requires sports to be sanctioned by the NCAA, then SDSU will examine requesting approval of the Regents for using the same Title IX compliance analysis that USD was allowed to use. (There are alternative methods for calculating whether there is Title IX compliance and the Regents required SDSU to use one method when SDSU moved to D1 but later allowed USD to use a different calculation method. Both are acceptable but it appears the one used by USD may be a friendlier calculation method if SDSU cannot include Equestrian scholarships in the compliance equation.)
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Post by Yotes on Feb 16, 2015 15:59:35 GMT -6
That's an interesting subject on its own. I can't think of examples of schools offering scholarships for non-NCAA sanctioned sports.
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jackjd
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Post by jackjd on Feb 16, 2015 19:05:05 GMT -6
Here's one example, Yotes: Men's crew is one of the oldest intercollegiate sports and is not under the NCAA. Crew athletes are awarded athletic scholarships at those schools which sponsor varsity crew and award athletic scholarship (compare: the Ivy League technically does not offer athletic scholarships). The ruling organization for men's crew is the Intercollegiate Rowing Association. (NCAA does sponsor women's crew.)
Side note: In Fall of 1999 USD formed a crew club (club status) and it existed for several years. I'm not sure if it still exists (the primary organizer and promoter graduated). I still have a T-Shirt for USD Crew received after making a modest donation toward the purchase of a used racing shell from Creighton. My recollection is they practiced on rowing machines and on McCook Lake.
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Post by Yote 53 on Feb 17, 2015 9:08:17 GMT -6
I would have to think Equastrian is an expensive sport. If SDSU needs to drop it and add a women's sport I would think Women's Ice Hockey could be an expensive option, or field hockey a cheaper option.
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jackjd
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Post by jackjd on Feb 17, 2015 9:38:36 GMT -6
It was relatively easy to raise money for Equestrian. Lots of South Dakotans interested in horses and they donated money as well as top-quality horses for use in the sport. Only a guess but I think it is easier to raise money in South Dakota for Equestrian than ice hockey or field hockey. Ice hockey can be an expensive sport. SDSU had women's field hockey years ago. SDSU also had men's and women's gymnastics for many years (I think USD had field hockey and gymnastics too -- I recall those were NCC championship sports in the 1970s).
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Post by Yote 53 on Feb 17, 2015 10:33:30 GMT -6
I brought up women's ice hockey because there are high school girls club teams in South Dakota and girls hockey is pretty big in Minnesota. Point being, there are quality female players all over this region to field quality teams. Also, SDSU has a rink right there in the Larson Ice Center.
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Post by gorabbits on Feb 17, 2015 11:34:40 GMT -6
The Big 12 sponsors equestrian so there may be some potential for maintaining competition and even conference affiliation for the sport. Participating schools in the Big 12 are TCU, Baylor, Oklahoma State and Kansas State.
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jackjd
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Post by jackjd on Feb 18, 2015 9:31:29 GMT -6
When the news first came out (December) about the NCAA dropping Equestrian, Kansas State indicated it would drop Equestrian. The NCAA currently pays $100,000 to SDSU's Equestrian program and that support will be lost.
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