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Post by gasser86 on Mar 24, 2018 18:10:49 GMT -6
This is getting ridiculous to me. I heard Briar Cliff is looking for a new coach. Better interview for that one as well. His true intentions will be known soon enough but I am getting just a little bit confused on all of this. If this all ends up as rumor only than I apologize but this seems like more than just smoke. USD is an up and coming program so why would he want to go to Utah State. Is he really that desperate to get out of Vermillion. He is really liked here. People may think this is crazy but the Summit Tourney being in Sioux Falls could actually be costing us our coach. I would not blame him at all for thinking that his goals of getting to the tournament have hit a HUGE road block and to get to that goal he needs a more realistic situation to accomplish that. I saw a very frustrated Smith on the side lines in that game in Sioux Falls against SDSU. I actually couldn't blame him because there is a blue and yellow monopoly right now on the tourney. Half the Pac 10 would have lost to the Jacks in that environment. Colorado State OK Utah Fricking State - Good luck with that. I guess the bottom line is that people will do what they want to do. The Coyotes didn't lose that game because of the crowd being a sea of blue, they lost because Smith was out-coached by Otz yet AGAIN! Don't get me wrong- I love the guy, but we have been eliminated from the Summit 2 years in row because he was out-coached by Otz... last year Smith gambled by giving Orris free reign (20 points in the tourney game) in order to limit the 3's from Daum and Co., and he scorched us when it mattered most. Otz knew we'd be throwing bodies at Daum and our loose defense on Orris allowed him to drill that shot that was supposed to fuel us into the tourney this year. Obviously that didn't happen and Otz delivered another grand slam this year. We played terrible defense and couldn't capitalize in the first half when Daum was out and they were still rolling us by a margin of 20 in the first half. Oh, and he drew up another predictable give the ball to Mooney scheme on offense. I understand the coaching carousel is part of mid-major basketball, but Smith is obviously aggressively looking to get out of Vermillion and it is starting to get old listening to all the rumors. I can't fault anyone for trying to get ahead in life and hope he gets what he is looking for. As hard as it is to say, I hope he accepts Utah State and turns them around quickly while playing 4th fiddle behind Weber State, and then gets a gig like Miles at Nebraska. If he is going to leave I'd like it to happen sooner rather than later so we can get another great coach who will have an easy transition with a cupboard full of talent (a la SDSU when Nagy left).
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Post by Coyote Fan on Mar 24, 2018 18:26:59 GMT -6
Thought I'd join this discussion as in all honesty its sad but its exciting times. Sad because Craig Smith is awesome but exciting because coaches don't take better jobs without success. Even if the next coach we hire is here only one year, i'd be excited because that means success. I'm sure Herbster would agree with that. 1. Have a coach here for 15 years with some ups and downs 2. Consistently have coaches here every 2 years with going to the Dance 50% of the time. I'll take #2 all day long and this is the state USD basketball is in. Why don't you explain that 50% a little more clearly because I am failing to understand that part of the argument. It's hard to do anything 50% of the time when it has yet to be done once. 0% of the time is all we have at this point and that 0 doesn't seem to be at a point in time that will end in the foreseeable future. With Smith gone that uncertainty grows stronger. I am sorry but I just don't see how Utah State is a better job.
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Post by Coyote Fan on Mar 24, 2018 18:36:33 GMT -6
So if is all about the coaching and Smith being out coached by Otz why is it in Vermillion the Coyotes win about two-thirds of the time and this year they were by far the better team but when it goes to a blue leaning crowd the Coyotes have never won in the D1 era. I think it is more than a coaching issue because when it comes to X's and O's Smith is at least as good of a coach as Otz. The location means much more than some give it credit for.
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Post by goyotes24 on Mar 24, 2018 18:38:00 GMT -6
Thought I'd join this discussion as in all honesty its sad but its exciting times. Sad because Craig Smith is awesome but exciting because coaches don't take better jobs without success. Even if the next coach we hire is here only one year, i'd be excited because that means success. I'm sure Herbster would agree with that. 1. Have a coach here for 15 years with some ups and downs 2. Consistently have coaches here every 2 years with going to the Dance 50% of the time. I'll take #2 all day long and this is the state USD basketball is in. Why don't you explain that 50% a little more clearly because I am failing to understand that part of the argument. It's hard to do anything 50% of the time when it has yet to be done once. 0% of the time is all we have at this point and that 0 doesn't seem to be at a point in time that will end in the foreseeable future. With Smith gone that uncertainty grows stronger. I am sorry but I just don't see how Utah State is a better job. I'm trying to understand YOUR argument a little more clearly because you are incredibly contradictory in this post alone. You state that USD has never gone to the dance, and therefore, as appears to be implied in your post, has not achieved any type of success (mind you, USD has had 20+ win seasons two consecutive seasons for the first time since going D1). Then you state that a program which has gone to the dance multiple times, and pays more, and is in an overall better conference (RPI 9 for MW, 17 for Summit), much larger city, larger stepping stone, etc. is not a better job for Smith. I hate being in the position of having to argue for our coach leaving, but again, you're incredibly naive to think that we are at the level of the Mountain West at this point. That's not to say we won't get there, but we're not now.
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Post by goyotes24 on Mar 24, 2018 18:38:59 GMT -6
So if is all about the coaching and Smith being out coached by Otz why is it in Vermillion the Coyotes win about two-thirds of the time and this year they were by far the better team but when it goes to a blue leaning crowd the Coyotes have never won in the D1 era. I think it is more than a coaching issue because when it comes to X's and O's Smith is at least as good of a coach as Otz. The location means much more than some give it credit for. Make the calls, CF, let's join the MVC!!! We'll be travel partners with UNI and crush Loyola-Chicago!
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Post by Coyote Fan on Mar 24, 2018 18:47:07 GMT -6
So go Yotes 24 why don't you explain to me how Smith was out coached by Otz in Vermillion. Also if the location of the games don't matter than why is it such a disparity in games in Vermillion vs the Jacks vs games in Brookings or Sioux Falls. So is Otz's coaching more responsible for the Jacks winning or is the location of the game more important. It would seems to me based on facts that the location is a little more important.
The bottom line is that losing Smith is a big blow.
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Post by Coyote Fan on Mar 24, 2018 18:48:00 GMT -6
So if is all about the coaching and Smith being out coached by Otz why is it in Vermillion the Coyotes win about two-thirds of the time and this year they were by far the better team but when it goes to a blue leaning crowd the Coyotes have never won in the D1 era. I think it is more than a coaching issue because when it comes to X's and O's Smith is at least as good of a coach as Otz. The location means much more than some give it credit for. Make the calls, CF, let's join the MVC!!! We'll be travel partners with UNI and crush Loyola-Chicago! It would be interesting to compare the Coyotes RPI to the teams in the MVC just to see how they would stack up.
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Post by usdtator on Mar 24, 2018 18:50:55 GMT -6
I'm not so certainly Otz is a good Xs and Os coach. You rarely see him sit down with the team in huddles during timeouts. It's usually one of his assistants who sits down and draws up their plays.
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Post by goyotes24 on Mar 24, 2018 19:01:56 GMT -6
So go Yotes 24 why don't you explain to me how Smith was out coached by Otz in Vermillion. Also if the location of the games don't matter than why is it such a disparity in games in Vermillion vs the Jacks vs games in Brookings or Sioux Falls. So is Otz's coaching more responsible for the Jacks winning or is the location of the game more important. It would seems to me based on facts that the location is a little more important. The bottom line is that losing Smith is a big blow. I never said Smith was merely out coached by Otz (that was a previous poster). But I also don't think we should join a different conference and lose a healthy rivalry because you think it's "unfair." Of course, home crowds are important, but it's not like USD isn't the same distance away from Sioux Falls as Brookings. I can see IPFW fans being annoyed about this (i.e. IPFW loss two seasons ago in SLT), but not USD fans. Yes, it is annoying that SDSU fans show up more than USD fans at SLT games. But leaving the conference isn't going to do the trick. We would never get accepted into MVC/Mountain West right now, and Big Sky/Horizon have lower conference RPIs than the Summit. Sorry, man, but you're just stuck with the Summit and a State/U rivalry. Nobody is discounting that losing Smith is a big blow. It is. I hate that he's likely gone. State will be losing Otz soon, too. Has Herbster made a 'dud' of a hire yet?
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Post by gasser86 on Mar 24, 2018 19:50:42 GMT -6
So go Yotes 24 why don't you explain to me how Smith was out coached by Otz in Vermillion. Also if the location of the games don't matter than why is it such a disparity in games in Vermillion vs the Jacks vs games in Brookings or Sioux Falls. So is Otz's coaching more responsible for the Jacks winning or is the location of the game more important. It would seems to me based on facts that the location is a little more important. The bottom line is that losing Smith is a big blow. I believe you were wanting an explanation from me: Does the crowd play a factor? Absolutely, everyone loves home court advantage. The game in Vermillion this year was a blowout and at the time I thought we were a better team straight up, but as the season progressed that was simply not the case. State had a poor shooting game in Vermillion and even if they made some more shots I still think we would have won, but SDSC continued to just plow through everyone. Aside from that anomaly, every game between SDSC and USD the past 2 years has been decided by 1 possession or less except the tourney final this year. Last year we beat SDSC by 2 at home, and lost by 1 in Brookings and by 3 in the tourney. This year we lost by 4 in Brookings, and 10 in the tourney on a "neutral" floor. These are not huge disparities outside of the final this year where we lose by 10 and give up 97 points--that is a huge disparity and a direct reflection of the coach (and staff) not having the team ready to play like they typically do. Yes, there was a lot of blue, but still more red than we ever have in Brookings and there is more red in Sioux Falls every year. I can't give all the credit to the crowd, because they just steamrolled us in the final and we didn't take advantage of some breaks they gave us. It's an uphill battle absolutely, but to say that we lose because of the crowd (or refs) is a cop out and I doubt anyone from the team would use that excuse. Trust me, I was just as bitter about the refs last year in that WWF handicapped match, but we were still in position to win in the end and did not do that for reasons I have already detailed. Champions don't use excuses like that, they overcome. As you could see in the post game presser, they all admitted they just didn't do enough to win. My apologies if I've veered too far from the purpose of this thread, but losing Smith would be a big blow, and he is the reason why these rivalry games are meaningful again.
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Linus
Freshman Member
Posts: 67
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Post by Linus on Mar 24, 2018 19:52:17 GMT -6
Utah State is a bigger school in a better conference and he could make more money. If they don’t have to fly commercial on road trips then even better. I think he hates all the bus to Omaha/Sf and take a couple connections to get where you are going stuff. I agree that it does seem that Smith hates the travel arrangements that are required of a school our size (and the location in Vermillion). Which makes it crazy in my mind that some on this board are suggesting that the solution is to join the MVC or the Big Sky. At least in the Summit League the basketball teams can drive to Omaha, Brookings, Fargo, and now Grand Forks. Additionally, this means that USD Fans can travel to these destinations. Over the last 3 years I have watched our men play at UNO and NDSU each once and in Brookings 3 times. I am looking forward to making the trip to watch basketball and football games in Grand Forks. I think it is great that our fans can easily travel to many of the away conference games. Which to me makes it bizarre that folks would be against having Augie in the Summit. I would go to the men's and women's basketball games against Augie in Sioux Falls every year - it would also be an easy drive for Vermillion residents to attend an away conference game if they so choose. If USD ever leaves the Summit League it would be very difficult to travel to away games. Anyone up for a road trip to Southern Utah, Weber State, Portland State, or any of the MVC schools? Looks like the drive to the closest MVC school to us is close to 5 hours. Also, if we are in the Big Sky we could go to our conference basketball tournament in Reno, Nevada. This year the championship game between Montana and Eastern Washington had 1,378 fans in attendance. I guess it was a neutral court though. I bet the student athletes enjoy playing in an empty shed, at least that is what it looks like on TV. Call me crazy, but I prefer the conference tournament in Sioux Falls. I also think having the rivalry against South Dakota State is great, and would be really disappointed if we moved to a different conference than them and once again lost the rivalry. So in summary, my view is stay in the Summit League, add Augustana, encourage all of the Yote fans we know to buy all-session passes to the Summit League Tournament, and cheer loudly every March in Sioux Falls.
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Post by usuaggiefan on Mar 24, 2018 20:41:21 GMT -6
USU Aggie fan here. To start off, I want to say how much I love small town schools. Mid major basketball is the best. I’ve watched more summit league games than SEC games because small conference ball embodies NCAA sports. I admit that I don’t know much about your coach, but I thought I’d respond to a few posts here. 1. Why would anybody pick leaving a good job to go to usu? Usu was top 3 in win percentage for 2000 to 2010 or so. We finished ranked multiple times. We had a CRAZY crowd that was named the best in the west by ESPN, over the likes of Arizona, SDSU, Gonzaga, UCLA, etc. our claim to fame is of course pioneering the spread of the I believe chant www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH65jS-EseQ and the lesser known winning team losing tea, chant m.youtube.com/watch?v=ARpzavb7PQk Oh and also wild bill. www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH65jS-EseQhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcJdG_LnRJUWe also have some very good training facilities that are new and as big as BCS teams. Bigger than many, in fact. 2. usu is third fiddle (or fourth) in Utah. True we are third. Ridiculous to say we are fourth behind Weber. That’s just how it is in a small town. Utah and Byu have enrollments over 35k students. We can’t compete with that. That’s the size of our city. Budget: utah 79 million usu 32 million weber 13 million byu who knows 3. USU hardly pays more than USD. Kind of true. We paid our last coach 250k or so because it was his first HC job. The previous coach made about than a million a year. Usu also has some good talent to build on. We have a 3/4 star pg who may play in the nba. We have a shooting guard who was one of the most efficient shooters in the NCAA. Both are sophomores. We had 4 bigs out by the end of the season and weren’t good there to begin with, so we couldn’t compete vs the depth of the MWC. I wish you guys luck. I have read a lot about your beautiful town. Man, I miss college towns.
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Post by yotebewithyou on Mar 24, 2018 21:13:20 GMT -6
USU Aggie fan here. To start off, I want to say how much I love small town schools. Mid major basketball is the best. I’ve watched more summit league games than SEC games because small conference ball embodies NCAA sports. I admit that I don’t know much about your coach, but I thought I’d respond to a few posts here. 1. Why would anybody pick leaving a good job to go to usu? Usu was top 3 in win percentage for 2000 to 2010 or so. We finished ranked multiple times. We had a CRAZY crowd that was named the best in the west by ESPN, over the likes of Arizona, SDSU, Gonzaga, UCLA, etc. our claim to fame is of course pioneering the spread of the I believe chant www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH65jS-EseQ and the lesser known winning team losing tea, chant m.youtube.com/watch?v=ARpzavb7PQk Oh and also wild bill. www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH65jS-EseQhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcJdG_LnRJUWe also have some very good training facilities that are new and as big as BCS teams. Bigger than many, in fact. 2. usu is third fiddle (or fourth) in Utah. True we are third. Ridiculous to say we are fourth behind Weber. That’s just how it is in a small town. Utah and Byu have enrollments over 35k students. We can’t compete with that. That’s the size of our city. Budget: utah 79 million usu 32 million weber 13 million byu who knows 3. USU hardly pays more than USD. Kind of true. We paid our last coach 250k or so because it was his first HC job. The previous coach made about than a million a year. Usu also has some good talent to build on. We have a 3/4 star pg who may play in the nba. We have a shooting guard who was one of the most efficient shooters in the NCAA. Both are sophomores. We had 4 bigs out by the end of the season and weren’t good there to begin with, so we couldn’t compete vs the depth of the MWC. I wish you guys luck. I have read a lot about your beautiful town. Man, I miss college towns. If it's true and Craig does go to USU, you're getting a fantastic person to lead your program. Listening to Craig talk about basketball and life is probably the thing I'll miss the most about him. I'd encourage you to watch this press conference from last season when we played at Nebraska (against his mentor Tim Miles)
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Post by stevenyote on Mar 24, 2018 21:34:18 GMT -6
Flight left joe foss around 8:00pm. Was from Utah and headed back. Dang.
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Post by stevenyote on Mar 24, 2018 21:38:36 GMT -6
Flight N15CV from Logan Utah
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