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Post by gorabbits on Nov 8, 2019 22:31:39 GMT -6
Remember when NDSU was 3-8 in 2009 (Craig Bohl's 6th year)? Didn't think so as they won their first FCS Championship 2 years later and have went on to win an additional six. Great programs are not built overnight. Patience is difficult, but necessary. Wasn't that their first year of postseason eligibility? He also had 8, 8, 7, 10, 10, and 6 win seasons before that. The first two years in the MVFC was a big adjustment for them. Apples and oranges here. 2009 was NDSU's 2nd year of post season eligibility. USD is currently in its 8th year of eligibility for the playoffs. By the 8th year NDSU had 5 national championships, SDSU had been to the playoffs 5 times. Time isn't the issue for USD. Great programs may not be built over night, but they don't take and eternity either. I don't mean this to be a smart aleck post but rather an indication of reality. Our attempts to reach NDSU's level are as challenging as your attempts to reach our level are. It is difficult in either case to determine the reasons that some teams succeed perennially, when others don't. Is it coaching, recruiting, the resources available, the culture/confidence/expectations/traditions of the program, the atmosphere of the whole athletic program, the level of support of the fan base, or just plain luck, I don't know. But probably a combination of the aforementioned and many other intangibles.
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Post by sdyotefan on Nov 8, 2019 23:23:25 GMT -6
gorabbits you must be young! NDSU had a great winning tradition long before D1 (and I know bunny fans think of them as rivals but not anywhere in the same class and never have been--just facts). They won numerous DII titles prior to D1 and the bunnies have never been in a FB national championship game. To illustrate a couple of interesting USD/NDSU historical examples--prior to the DII playoffs in 1968 the Coyotes lost 1 game finished 8th in national ranking and we lost to NDSU who was number 1 and undefeated. In 1986 USD was in the national championship game against the bison and lost 27-7. So the bison are and have been a machine for a long time. The Coyotes will continue to chip away like they did a few years ago when we ended their 26 MVFC win streak by beating them in Fargo when Carson Wentz was their QB!
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Post by Yote 53 on Nov 8, 2019 23:36:32 GMT -6
Thanks for your input. You had me the entire way until you started commenting on the culture of the entire athletic department. Interesting because the volleyball team just clinched the Summit this week in straight sets against the Jacks. The Jacks haven't won a set against USD in 4 years.
The rest of the athletic department is performing at a very high level right now. Volleyball just clinched the Summit. Men's basketball projected to be one of the best in the conference as is the women's team. Track and field has been strong and has had great success, National Champion level success. Softball team played for the SL championship this year.
USD has a football problem. For some reason, no matter how much we put behind this program, we can't seem to find sustained success.
Just goes to show you how much the success of a school's football program goes towards projecting the success of the entire athletic department. Coyote Athletics is doing fine, that's why we keep winning that corn growers championship head-to-head against SDSU every year. We just have a football problem.
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Post by Yotes on Nov 8, 2019 23:55:35 GMT -6
gorabbits you must be young! NDSU had a great winning tradition long before D1 (and I know bunny fans think of them as rivals but not anywhere in the same class and never have been--just facts). They won numerous DII titles prior to D1 and the bunnies have never been in a FB national championship game. To illustrate a couple of interesting USD/NDSU historical examples--prior to the DII playoffs in 1968 the Coyotes lost 1 game finished 8th in national ranking and we lost to NDSU who was number 1 and undefeated. In 1986 USD was in the national championship game against the bison and lost 27-7. So the bison are and have been a machine for a long time. The Coyotes will continue to chip away like they did a few years ago when we ended their 26 MVFC win streak by beating them in Fargo when Carson Wentz was their QB! He called NDSU a perennial power. Not sure where you perceived him stating NDSU has only recently put it all together.
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Post by gopheryote on Nov 9, 2019 6:06:52 GMT -6
TBH, I was hoping this thread would die out quickly, but no dice. Let's not be so quick to dismiss a strong, positive culture as a major draw for players - even over winning. Coach P gets her pick of mid-major players in the area (even over previous destinations like Green Bay and SDSU) because of the amazing culture and program she built - winning is just icing on the cake. (FWIW, that is an almost exact quote from a parent of a player being recruited.) Even if you don't like him, the same can be said for PJ Fleck - his players run through walls for him and the program. I don't know if I've ever heard a current player or coach discuss culture in an interview.
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Post by bisoninnwmn on Nov 9, 2019 7:02:27 GMT -6
gorabbits you must be young! NDSU had a great winning tradition long before D1 (and I know bunny fans think of them as rivals but not anywhere in the same class and never have been--just facts). They won numerous DII titles prior to D1 and the bunnies have never been in a FB national championship game. To illustrate a couple of interesting USD/NDSU historical examples--prior to the DII playoffs in 1968 the Coyotes lost 1 game finished 8th in national ranking and we lost to NDSU who was number 1 and undefeated. In 1986 USD was in the national championship game against the bison and lost 27-7. So the bison are and have been a machine for a long time. The Coyotes will continue to chip away like they did a few years ago when we ended their 26 MVFC win streak by beating them in Fargo when Carson Wentz was their QB! What is "chipping away". I am curious. That milestone win in '15 was when Wentz broke his wrist in the 1st half. It must be some great win because I see it referenced other times as well. If that was a "milestone" win, what has that translated to? Will USD attain the level where the Bison are at? IMO, no and never will.
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Post by kiyoat on Nov 9, 2019 10:21:48 GMT -6
Wow. Pretty sure that’s not what he meant, but feel free to act like all the thin-skinned Jacks fans we interact with on this site. Seems unnecessary, but what the hell.
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foxyd
Freshman Member
Posts: 6
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Post by foxyd on Nov 9, 2019 11:21:21 GMT -6
...that's why we keep winning that corn growers championship head-to-head against SDSU every year. We just have a football problem. The Yotes have a big lead in Corn Showdown points for this season. But, let’s not overstate the overall series: Rabbits have taken the trophy 4 times while the Yotes have won it 3. I don’t get too excited about those kind of “competitions”. I have also been reminded that the Rabbits sponsor several more sports than the Yotes (what if ALL sports were counted?) The first post started with the proposition that football drove the bus. Let’s get this back on topic. Our bus has two wheels in the ditch and it’s no other school’s fault
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Post by Yotes on Nov 9, 2019 13:27:30 GMT -6
...that's why we keep winning that corn growers championship head-to-head against SDSU every year. We just have a football problem. The Yotes have a big lead in Corn Showdown points for this season. But, let’s not overstate the overall series: Rabbits have taken the trophy 4 times while the Yotes have won it 3. I don’t get too excited about those kind of “competitions”. I have also been reminded that the Rabbits sponsor several more sports than the Yotes (what if ALL sports were counted?) The first post started with the proposition that football drove the bus. Let’s get this back on topic. Our bus has two wheels in the ditch and it’s no other school’s fault What's to talk about? Every investment has been made for any of our sports to thrive, but football continues to disappoint. That's all on Bob. The sooner we can get rid of him the better. Unfortunately it seems we can't do that now so we are in for at least a couple more years of watching a broken program keep letting us down.
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Post by captaincoyote on Nov 9, 2019 14:03:24 GMT -6
I am not saying this to brag, but to add perspective and insight. I contributed on all four of USD Track and Field's conference championship winning teams between 2013 and 2015. We had talent AND culture at a time that all other teams on campus were still building to where they are now. We operated in a bubble and many other teams thought we were stuck up for it. My freshman classmates and i greatly reduced the party culture that had plagued prior classes. We bought into everything Gotts, Lucky, Miles, and Fitz taught. Winning on and off the track motivated almost every decision we made and naturally led to accountability.
I don't know what the culture on the football team is, but it doesn't look like what we had. NDSU and SDSU have that culture. Bob needs to swallow his pride and start meeting Gotts for lunch every day at TJ'S, if he wants to win in Vermillion.
Go Yotes!
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Post by fightsd on Nov 9, 2019 19:01:02 GMT -6
Wasn't that their first year of postseason eligibility? He also had 8, 8, 7, 10, 10, and 6 win seasons before that. The first two years in the MVFC was a big adjustment for them. Apples and oranges here. 2009 was NDSU's 2nd year of post season eligibility. USD is currently in its 8th year of eligibility for the playoffs. By the 8th year NDSU had 5 national championships, SDSU had been to the playoffs 5 times. Time isn't the issue for USD. Great programs may not be built over night, but they don't take and eternity either. I don't mean this to be a smart aleck post but rather an indication of reality. Our attempts to reach NDSU's level are as challenging as your attempts to reach our level are. It is difficult in either case to determine the reasons that some teams succeed perennially, when others don't. Is it coaching, recruiting, the resources available, the culture/confidence/expectations/traditions of the program, the atmosphere of the whole athletic program, the level of support of the fan base, or just plain luck, I don't know. But probably a combination of the aforementioned and many other intangibles. We have the same number of national championships as the bunnies.... But keep trying to include yourselves in the same conversation with NDSU.
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Post by yoteforever on Nov 9, 2019 21:23:11 GMT -6
The Yotes have a big lead in Corn Showdown points for this season. But, let’s not overstate the overall series: Rabbits have taken the trophy 4 times while the Yotes have won it 3. I don’t get too excited about those kind of “competitions”. I have also been reminded that the Rabbits sponsor several more sports than the Yotes (what if ALL sports were counted?) The first post started with the proposition that football drove the bus. Let’s get this back on topic. Our bus has two wheels in the ditch and it’s no other school’s fault What's to talk about? Every investment has been made for any of our sports to thrive, but football continues to disappoint. That's all on Bob. The sooner we can get rid of him the better. Unfortunately it seems we can't do that now so we are in for at least a couple more years of watching a broken program keep letting us down. Quite frankly I’m seriously disappointed in you. You have been banging the drum about what a crappy coach Bob is. You talk about “every investment has been made” for us to thrive. Tell me what’s the investment that has been made in football? And have you honestly made part of that so called investment? Even if it’s $100, have you done that? There’s been talk about Bobs 5 year deal. Everybody is one hell of an administrator once it’s played out looking in the rear view mirror, but how many would’ve had the guts to pull that trigger? I don’t hear one flicking negative word about Dawn getting a 5 year deal. I’ll tell you this. Bob Nielson has forgotten more football than any of us clowns know. Bobs a winner. What has transpired this season is a total mystery. I have my hunches but I don’t know for sure. And neither do you or anyone else on this board. You aren’t there everyday. Talking down about our staff in a public forum the way some of you have is poisonous. I’ve played on teams ( hundreds of years ago ) that negative crap happens and sometimes it’s a bitch to fix. Sometimes solutions are relatively easy other times it’s tougher than hell. I don’t like how this played out but I will tell you the answer is not to get rid of Bob. He’s got more integrity in his little finger than most coaches do in total.
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Post by Yotes on Nov 9, 2019 22:00:04 GMT -6
What's to talk about? Every investment has been made for any of our sports to thrive, but football continues to disappoint. That's all on Bob. The sooner we can get rid of him the better. Unfortunately it seems we can't do that now so we are in for at least a couple more years of watching a broken program keep letting us down. Quite frankly I’m seriously disappointed in you. You have been banging the drum about what a crappy coach Bob is. You talk about “every investment has been made” for us to thrive. Tell me what’s the investment that has been made in football? And have you honestly made part of that so called investment? Even if it’s $100, have you done that? There’s been talk about Bobs 5 year deal. Everybody is one hell of an administrator once it’s played out looking in the rear view mirror, but how many would’ve had the guts to pull that trigger? I don’t hear one flicking negative word about Dawn getting a 5 year deal. I’ll tell you this. Bob Nielson has forgotten more football than any of us clowns know. Bobs a winner. What has transpired this season is a total mystery. I have my hunches but I don’t know for sure. And neither do you or anyone else on this board. You aren’t there everyday. Talking down about our staff in a public forum the way some of you have is poisonous. I’ve played on teams ( hundreds of years ago ) that negative crap happens and sometimes it’s a bitch to fix. Sometimes solutions are relatively easy other times it’s tougher than hell. I don’t like how this played out but I will tell you the answer is not to get rid of Bob. He’s got more integrity in his little finger than most coaches do in total. Competitive coaching salaries, Dome renovation, incredible training facilities, paying cost of attendance. Those aren't all necessarily exclusive to football, but the athletic department has put the tools in place for any program to succeed. Do you not agree? I guess since you question my investment I'll give the details. I'm at the minimum level for the Howling Pack. My name isn't on a building and I no longer give enough to even get a parking spot for football games. I used to give those extra five hundred dollars a year but couldn't keep justifying the expense. My biggest investment is buying 4 season tickets a year since graduating in 2014. I try to drag a few people with me to each game and have eaten many tickets over the years but I've always been okay with it since it basically is my annual contribution to the program. I'd love to give more in the future but there are so many more prudent items for me to be spending my money on at this point in my life. Yes, Bob probably knows more about football than I know about anything, but he is not putting up the results we should be seeing. Is he making the wrong personnel moves? Is he no longer able to connect with the kids? Has he ever had to deal with culture problems like this before? Of course I'm not there and don't know why we see such inconsistent performance. It seems like the same situation we had with Joe and it's just so old at this point. I want to watch a football team that is motivated and disciplined. Those seem like the most fundamental things to building a successful program, and if we aren't seeing it in year 4 it seems very unlikely we are going to in the future without changes. I questioned the extension at the time and am not at all happy to see my concerns realized this year. Something is wrong with this program. Bob is going to get more time to fix it, but will he figure it out? Years 3 and 4 have been more difficult to watch than years 1 and 2. Not a good trend.
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Post by yoteforever on Nov 10, 2019 0:03:35 GMT -6
Quite frankly I’m seriously disappointed in you. You have been banging the drum about what a crappy coach Bob is. You talk about “every investment has been made” for us to thrive. Tell me what’s the investment that has been made in football? And have you honestly made part of that so called investment? Even if it’s $100, have you done that? There’s been talk about Bobs 5 year deal. Everybody is one hell of an administrator once it’s played out looking in the rear view mirror, but how many would’ve had the guts to pull that trigger? I don’t hear one flicking negative word about Dawn getting a 5 year deal. I’ll tell you this. Bob Nielson has forgotten more football than any of us clowns know. Bobs a winner. What has transpired this season is a total mystery. I have my hunches but I don’t know for sure. And neither do you or anyone else on this board. You aren’t there everyday. Talking down about our staff in a public forum the way some of you have is poisonous. I’ve played on teams ( hundreds of years ago ) that negative crap happens and sometimes it’s a bitch to fix. Sometimes solutions are relatively easy other times it’s tougher than hell. I don’t like how this played out but I will tell you the answer is not to get rid of Bob. He’s got more integrity in his little finger than most coaches do in total. Competitive coaching salaries, Dome renovation, incredible training facilities, paying cost of attendance. Those aren't all necessarily exclusive to football, but the athletic department has put the tools in place for any program to succeed. Do you not agree? I guess since you question my investment I'll give the details. I'm at the minimum level for the Howling Pack. My name isn't on a building and I no longer give enough to even get a parking spot for football games. I used to give those extra five hundred dollars a year but couldn't keep justifying the expense. My biggest investment is buying 4 season tickets a year since graduating in 2014. I try to drag a few people with me to each game and have eaten many tickets over the years but I've always been okay with it since it basically is my annual contribution to the program. I'd love to give more in the future but there are so many more prudent items for me to be spending my money on at this point in my life. Yes, Bob probably knows more about football than I know about anything, but he is not putting up the results we should be seeing. Is he making the wrong personnel moves? Is he no longer able to connect with the kids? Has he ever had to deal with culture problems like this before? Of course I'm not there and don't know why we see such inconsistent performance. It seems like the same situation we had with Joe and it's just so old at this point. I want to watch a football team that is motivated and disciplined. Those seem like the most fundamental things to building a successful program, and if we aren't seeing it in year 4 it seems very unlikely we are going to in the future without changes. I questioned the extension at the time and am not at all happy to see my concerns realized this year. Something is wrong with this program. Bob is going to get more time to fix it, but will he figure it out? Years 3 and 4 have been more difficult to watch than years 1 and 2. Not a good trend. I like you a lot and as I reread my post the words I used were inappropriate as I honestly didn’t mean to call you out on your donations. So I apologize for what appears to be calling you out and that wasn’t my intention. The point I was trying to make is there are a number of people ( not just on here ) that are pissing and moaning about Bob and don’t even attend games. You do attend, you are a member of the Howling Pack, and I know for a fact you travel to away games because we met in Cedar Falls a few years back. You don’t need to justify your level of giving to me or anyone. I love this program as much as anyone you know and I for sure am impassioned and wanting to see us as annual contenders. How we get there is probably why many of us disagree. Until this very point in time USD had not invested in football. The Dome in and of itself is wonderful but the amenities inside were extremely dated and tired. No matter what anyone says the locker room sucked and was embarrassing. We could tell recruits we were going to renovate, but until it started happening they were only words. Once it’s fully completed with new locker rooms, team meeting rooms, and coaches offices then we can puff our chest out and show them by standing in them not looking at a photo album. That will win recruits. I agree our training facilities are top drawer and literally have provided a foundation for recruiting. Cost if attendance isn’t football unique, but I honestly don’t know what other schools in the league have it. But yes, it’s a good thing. Coaches salaries are just getting to the point where we are middle of the league. Assistant salaries are not in top half. Head coach I believe to be smack dab in the middle. We honestly need about another $250,000 for assistants that we can recruit. All you have to do is look at those who left and ask why. It was monetary. They loved Bob but when you get $50,000 raises AND appear to move up, like vermillion or not, you’re gonna bounce. Joe Glenn’s assistants were paid chump money. The ones that were good left for greener pastures, the others were basically forced out of the game because they weren’t good enough. That’s exactly why I think Joe did a great job because he raised the bar with nothing. We need continuity. We need longevity. If Bob didn’t have the coaching history he does I could maybe buy into your argument. But Bob knows how to coach. Plus he’s a great guy that will never jeopardize the integrity of USD like some other coaches we all know to well. I can tell you he’s mystified why it played out like it did, but as I’ve said before...it happened. Yes we make a boatload of dumb penalties that I disdain. Yes we do things I even question. But that doesn’t mean we’re right. It simply means we think we are smarter than Bob in football and I’m telling you for a fact I’m not. I trust Bob, I like Bob, and I believe in Bob. The reality is we are not, and never have been a football perennial power. Men’s basketball has been, women’s basketball most recently has been and appears to be gaining even more traction. In fact volleyball seems to be on that path. Do I think we can get there in football? Yes, I honestly do. I will do whatever I can to make sure that happens. But we need to build the foundation from the ground up and you can’t do it by playing musical chairs with coaches in my opinion. If I’m wrong, I’m wrong. But if I was the AD I would’ve done exactly what Herbster did. I support his decision. If Bob ends up not being the answer then we are further behind. I just don’t think we are. We’re closer than many think. I trust he’ll do whatever he needs to do to make that happen. What school do you know of that was NEVER relevant in football in their history, but today is? Answer: SDSU They have stayed the course with Stig and it proved to be the right decision. Continue to support our program however you can even when you don’t think it’s going the right way. I will always be a Coyote. Always. And I’ll support our athletes and coaches until they lower me 6’ under. Lastly I apologize if you think I called you out because it was not my intent. You’re a good person and a good fan. I’m sorry Old cliche that I hope applies to us.....It’s always darkest before dawn
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Post by coyote70 on Nov 10, 2019 9:15:25 GMT -6
Good message, Yoteforever. I have ponied up $$$$ over the past few years to be a member of the Howling Pack (one of the best monikers in all of college football in my opinion) but after some recent, very disappointing losses I thought maybe my money should go elsewhere. Your message helped erase those thoughts. In fact, now I'm thinking of upping my support next year.
We all know coaching is critical to player development and team success. I stated previously that continuity is a big part of that. It may be a hard sell to get some Pack members to contribute again next year. I don't know and hope not. It won't be for me.
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