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Post by Coyote Fan on Nov 21, 2012 18:33:47 GMT -6
I always like to do my research and show the facts and here they are. These are some interesting numbers that USD football has compiled in the 25 years between 1988-2012.
Total NCC Record: 68-99
Total Great West Record: 6-9
Total MVFC Record: 0-8
Total Record against Opponents as follows
Augustana: 12-8 (8-8 pre Meierkort)
South Dakota State: 5-16 (3-15 since 1989)
North Dakota State: 1-17
North Dakota: 3-20
Record Against Current Peer Opponents (SDSU,NDSU,UND): 9-53
I will comment more on why I wrote this later but I don't have time to say anything more right now. Just look at these numbers. They are unbelievable, and some wonder why I am frustrated all the time with Coyote football. Well here is the reason why. I lived through all but 3 of these seasons.
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Post by GoYotes on Nov 21, 2012 18:47:05 GMT -6
Happy Thanksgiving
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jackjd
Senior Member
Posts: 655
Member is Online
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Post by jackjd on Nov 21, 2012 20:13:19 GMT -6
I lived through all but 3 of these seasons. You presented info on 25 years. I know you're older than 25. Hmmm...if you lived through all but 3 of the last 25 seasons, were you dead for three?
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Post by notkiotees on Nov 21, 2012 20:21:09 GMT -6
He was traveling with Up With People.
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Post by azsod73 on Nov 21, 2012 20:44:15 GMT -6
That nails it
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Post by Coyote Fan on Nov 21, 2012 22:31:02 GMT -6
What I find so interesting is that people just love to make me the scapegoat on this board and all I do is basically state the facts and get whiney during these losing seasons. Does anyone want to take a guess where I got these numbers. Ya really want to know. They didn't come from an old book in the library! They didn't come from the archives near the trophy room! I got these records under the rug in the A.D's office. The rug where they could lie untouched and untalked about. They are the records that the admin doesn't want to have to explain and doesn't want the fans and alumni to know about. A convenient place to lie and be forgotten about.
2012 has come and gone. Without any major changes to this program means that another season comes and goes. Sayler holds up the old rug, Glenn sweeps it quickly away while President Abbott watches on in approval. As I say this the news is on, SDSU gets more spotlight for their playoff game while USD fans continue to play second fiddle once again, and once again licking their wounds feeling no one is in their corner. I say this after coming home from a hockey game where the team I cheer for puts away an overtime game and everyone leaves with a smile from grin to grin. I find out my favorite NBA team gets a surprise comeback from it's best player coming back 2 weeks earlier than expected with no one but the Wolves insiders knowing it would happen. What a pleasant surprise. But I sit here tonight feeling as if no one truly cares about Coyote Football and no one truly cares about fixing Coyote Football other than using the same country club mentality that has been used for the past 25 years. Scratch my back and I will scratch yours.
From now I am going to consider the Dakota Dome the "Country Club Suites at Dakota Dome Field. I will consider that until I can see with actions that the administration is serious about giving us a winning product.
The more days that come and go from the present back until the end of the season means the lesser and lesser the chances are that anything will truly change with this program.
So go ahead make yourself feel better and scaregoat Coyote Fan (who by the way is one of the most hard core fans out there). Throw him under the bus, kick him out of the Country Club, don't dare allow anyone to bring truthfull and objective sensable ideas to the table.
25 years of this kind of a mentality has basically turned off a generation or more of Coyote Fans that could have been season ticket holders right now. But instead because of the Country Club mentality the average everyday fans continues to get more and more turned off and apathetic towards their alma mater.
I am just stunned at the lack of backlash towards this football season. Even 50% of the fans on this board think that we should go ahead and just keep the staff totally intact. I have news for you that think we should just stand pat. The players are not going to improve to the point where the Yotes are on an even playing field with the upper teams in this conference. The culture needs to change and having Glenn come in has basically given a majority of the fans the notion that it takes 3-4 more years to build a program. I got some news for you. Truly good coaches make an impact often times in year one but definately at the end of year two.
I believe that there are a good many people that will be happy if the Coyotes finish 2-6 next year and 3-5 in Conference the year after. That will be good. Why expect more than that. Some people were truly happy with Meierkort and many people would take him back in a heartbeat. Those people also are probably happy with 3-5 in the Valley because that is exactly what he would provide.
Heck, Yoteforever thinks I am a destructive force to USD. I tell the truth, I bring up facts, I don't take losing very well. That is a destructive force because it doesn't buy into the country club mentality. The mentality that it's always best to hire from within, it's always best to let unqualified candidates learn at USD instead of learn elsewhere and come to USD when they are already seasoned.
So go ahead and do the usual and smite this post but what you should be doing is to exalt this post because not many people have the guts to come out and lay out the facts, lay out the truth not caring if I take a personal hit to make my point. You can choose to take a stand againt my direct in your face style but I want this program to suceed and I will never stand for ineptness. The day I accept losing is the day I stop being a fan of the Yotes.
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Post by Iceman on Nov 21, 2012 23:34:12 GMT -6
So coyote fan, you must have stopped being a coyote fan then right? You stopped coming to games, at the end of the state game, you are telling them to run up the score on YOUR team. I don't care that you are telling everyone that you said it because you were frustrated. There have been many frustrated coyote fans this year and I haven't heard anyone else say that. I have been frustrated, I have never wished that the opposing team would "punch in another touchdown" at the end of a game. What kind of a person says that??? Not a damn COYOTE FAN!
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Post by Coyote Fan on Nov 22, 2012 0:43:49 GMT -6
Well Iceman I guess you have drawn the line and you are on the other side of it. Your choice. I would have had absolutely no problem had SDSU scored another touchdown. I didn't see any white flags being raised by the Coyotes. I didn't see Joe Glenn hand shaking Stig before the game was officially over. It kind of figures that since you don't have a logical response to this thread that you would have to bring that up again. I did stop going to games and due to my past loyalty to this program I deserve that right. I am certainly not the only one that didn't show up and I am glad other Coyote fans decided that the Yotes weren't worth the price to go watch them have another debacle which is exactly what it was.
Some like to complain that I am not a Howling Pack member but those same people have never once thanked me for my loyalty to the Coyotes despite all the money I have spent in the past going to games. I am the kind of fan x 100 that successfull programs tend to have. I guess I got stuck cheering for the wrong school.
What other fan on this board have spend half the time that I have researching, talking about the Yotes, starting game threads etc. I have barely ever had a thank you for starting game threads and promoting other sports etc. I think about 90% objectively and that really bugs many people. If I don't think a coach is a great coach I say it. Like Houk for example. So many people think he is a great coach and I do not. I think he is an average coach. People jump on me because I don't think he is a great coach and try to use every excuse in the book besides wins and losses of why he is a great coach, like it's some crutch that he is coaching at USD so he is not expected to win as much as if he was at another program but yet still should be called a great coach.
When I post facts many people naturally get hurt because they are not the facts that people want to hear about.
Here is the next problem apparently in the process of developing at USD. People inside the program have apparently crowned Wes Beschorner as the heir apparent to be the next head coach at USD. He may be a great guy, loved by his players etc. There are alot of nice people that are loved standing in the unemployment line looking for jobs. What's the point. He was hired into his position without having the resume to be a D1 FCS OC. Than after never having proved that his offenses were very good suddenly now he has become the next in line to be head coach. Is this the Isiah Thomas syndrow of failing upward. That is the entire problem with this University in the first place and is exactly why the numbers from above have happened. It's the pat on the back philosophy that has hurt this program for so long and I am seeing that same thing unfolding once again.
I thought this University was done with the entitlement form of hiring. What ever happened to doing a complete and thorough national coaching search. That did not happen with Glenn and I don't think happened with Ryun Williams eventhough that turned out OK. It appears with Amy Williams that she was truly the best candidate after a national search, or at least I hope it was.
Country Club hiring practices are a risky form of trying to develop a successfull athletic department.
So based on the questionable hiring practices of the football program here is what we could be looking at if this whole promote Beschorner to head coach crowd gets what they want.
2013: Glenn with the same coaching staff has another sub par year and maybe goes 2-6 or at best 3-5 in the MVFC
2014: Fringe year, either Wes takes over or Glenn has one more year. Either way it's probably 3-5 or 4-4, maybe even a slight break through at 5-3
2015: Wes takes over as head coach as Glenn feels he has left the program in good enough shape to step down. Despite never having proven himself at his prior coaching positions Wes is the man. Another sub par year, this time 3-5 or 2-6
2016: The Wes era is in full bloom but the program gets no better and possibly worse. 2-6 or 1-7 in the Valley
2017 or 2018: Finally USD comes to their senses and hired someone from outside the program. By this time another 5-6 years has been wasted from an experiment that should have never been started in the first place
These are the exact same things that happened previously. Rankin had no business being head coach and USD promoted him anyway. That was an enormous mistake. Austin had no business being head coach and he was with USD about 5 years. These are the types of bad decisions that have haunted this program for years. If changes aren't made than it's fully apparent to me that that this will be similar to the course of what we can expect in the near future.
This is also what I think could happen. When David Sayler leaves Joe Glenn will become the AD without a real national search because he is Mr. Coyote despite not having the experience to be AD. He will be positive just like he is but will not create a sense of accountability and the athletic program will continue to flounder for years. If he keeps Wes on the job he certainly will not make good decisions elsewhere within the department.
My vision of the country club mentality is going to lead to USD being well behind UND, NDSU and SDSU for many years to come. In the meantime I will continue to be an angry and aging man. I will be banned 100 times from the board for being too negative eventhough all I really even do is say it how it is.
Ok get ready I am going to be positive for a moment. I do think David Sayler has been GREAT for this University. He has made people that never thought USD could do things like build new facilities not only think it's a possibilty but a near certainty.
I think he may be about to botch the whole football thing but actual sports knowledge might not be his forte. Isn't that what Herbster is supposed to be. Maybe not, who knows. On that thought maybe Herbster is the problem. Maybe he is not standing up to Sayler enough when it comes to the football program. Maybe he needs to start kicking people in the butt more often.
So people hate on as they will do but I seem to be able to predict what will happen more accurately than people that are too close to the program and make decisions based on loyalty instead of objectivity.
I am beginning to think I am the only one that truly cares about winning and losing.
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Post by azsod73 on Nov 22, 2012 12:01:41 GMT -6
I am truly/truely thankfull that I have sworn to never read another post from cf.
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jimmer
Freshman Member
Posts: 23
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Post by jimmer on Nov 22, 2012 13:57:55 GMT -6
coyotefan you are a hypocrite. You act completely bullied, but you bring it upon yourself.. I think your informational posts are interseting but man, no one likes a whiner. This isn't the nfl where a team can completely change in a year. In college it takes numerous years to create a "Dynasty" or winning program, which everyone is striving for. You act like your the only USD fan on this whole board. Say the right things and I'll have your back, but that obviously doesn't happen very often.
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Post by Coyote Fan on Nov 22, 2012 16:00:44 GMT -6
When you classify someone as a whiner or being negative is that really the case or is it just simply fact finding and objective thinking. If this program gave me something hang me hat on than maybe the comments would come off as more positive. I am an equal opportunity poster.
My posts hurt the hardcore fans because the truth is told. If I was full of hot air no one would care.
I am still waiting for someone to honestly and accurately respond to some of the things that I have laid out. I don't mean fireballs being thrown my way, I mean factual sensable responses. Saying programs take time is not a well thought out post. Many coaches when they take over do not take 3-4 years to make an impact. It's usually rather quickly but the full results may take a few years. A program is built over time but usually stages of improvement start to happen right away.
What happened on the field this year was not simply a lack of talented players that can be switched out to suddenly make things completely turn around. If SDSU's talent was on this team I don't think they would be coached up enough to finish better than 3-5 in this conference with the coaching staff that is already in place.
Joe Glenn himself is not the problem, what is the problem is Joe Glenn's insistance to keep all the coaches around him the same despite continued failing from many of them.
All bets are off if there still ends up being some changes at OC and Special Teams coach. When Glenn shows he is willing to make the difficult decisions that are needed to be made than my confidence in him goes up. If things stay status quo than I am not confident things will get significantly better.
I revert to what I always say below---If you always do what you have always done, than you will always get what you have always got---.
Coyote Fans should not be surprised if we stand pat and things don't significantly improve. That's common sense.
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Post by Coyote Fan on Nov 22, 2012 16:35:01 GMT -6
The things that I talk about are real and they are important to get right. Just look at the showing of Coyote Fans at Coughlin-Alumni. I remember in Sioux Falls during the 2005 season (or was it 2006) when the Yotes played Augustana, Red filled most of the visitors section. There were definately more fans for that game than showed up in Brookings. The cost might have something to do with it but not that much.
I say things in the heat of the moment like the run up the score thing, and I appologize for that as it was insensative. When I make might points they are not just thrown out there with no thought. I say things with the big picture in mind. I base my comments on facts and trends that happen over time. I don't base them on knee jerk reactions like some of you would like to believe.
It would be great if a non biased football mind would come in and help Sayler and or Herbster to make the proper decisions to get this things going properly. If Sayler is not a football guy than he shouldn't be making the decision of what is right and wrong for the program. What he should know is the right person or people to turn to that do know what it takes.
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Post by yoteforever on Nov 22, 2012 18:22:23 GMT -6
One thing that can't be disputed is the record USD has had the last 25 years, and had CF gone back further, I think he would have found more of the same. The early 80's had some winning teams, the 78 team won the league, and then there was the Joe Salem era that had a few conference titles shared with other teams but won more than they lost. CF makes a valid point about the history, but to me what is more significant is that in reality we don't have a winning tradition over time to lean on.
I am an alumni. I am an ex-player. I am a booster. There are some people that love USD as much as I do, but I sincerely doubt that many people love the U more than I do. When you post CF that guys like me are COUNTRY CLUB type people you couldn't be more wrong. I will defend you in the accuracy of the factual posts, it's when you editorialize that you lose me, and the vast majority of the readers on here. Your editorials can be grating. If you want people on here to have valid debate with you, tone down the editorials. I am going to try beginning with this post to engage you and ask you to be less confrontational.
Lets start about who cares about Coyote football. I do. Yotes 53 does. The OBC does. Jimmie does. CF #1 does. Yotemeal does. Usd football alum does. Coyotega does. I think you get my point. We all do, including yourself, care for Coyote sports. You say Howling Pack members don't acknowledge your loyalty. That's probably true. But other than reading your posts on here, how would they know if you went to games or not? By your own admission, you said you didn't go to the last 2 games, so if you are honest with yourself do you really deserve recognition for once going, and now not going because they are losing? I for one am not going to go out of my way to thank you for staying home. It took far more courage to attend the game in Brookings than it did to stay home out of protest. But in closing this part, I do think you care about USD sports, but so do we. Make no bones about it. And also regarding the thank you portion, once a year I receive a letter from the university thanking my wife and I for our contribution, and that's it.
The second point I want to make is sometimes, and I use the word sometimes, you are not consistent. You made the point you wanted the Jacks to run up the score. Ou then defended that statement several times, now in your last post, you apologize for saying it. For my takes, I understand why you maybe said that in the heat of the moment, but then you should have retracted it and admitted it was wrong. So I do understand your passion. But when you want to earn respect from others on here, or from the administration department, if you have rebuttal, you then must back that up with suggestions that have validity, not so much off the cuff. I get confused as to your position on Joe Glenn. My take is that you like the hire, and you respect him, but now you feel he isn't the guy because he doesn't make decisions that match what you think. You might be right. But you also might be wrong. To take such hard stances is what in my opinion alienates you, and invalidates your opinion. The truth of the matter is I happen to agree with you to a certain point.
Where I agree with CF is that IF Coach Glenn is wrong in keeping half of Ed's staff, then he did indeed gamble and the program cold take longer to heal than once was thought. However, if Coach Glenn is correct in assessing the talent of the coaches he has on staff, then I believe the healing time will be less. I feel I am as qualified to assess as CF is, maybe more, and my real answer is I don't have a clue. I have to believe Joe Glenn is in this to win, and given the fact he has won 3 national championships, I trust his judgement. The reality is we have no other choice than to accept his decision, and back it. If he is wrong, then I guess you will feel good about bashing him and saying I TOLD YOU SO. However, in my interest in bringing you into the fold as opposed to further chastising you, I want you to express your opinion but also be willing to accept the decision of the head coach. I guess what I am saying is that people get tired of you sticking out your chest AFTER THE FACT. There is an old saying, hindsight is 20-20. If I knew what the future held, I would then make the decision to support that vision.
My next point is to not be so frickin dramatic. When you spewed your statistics for the last 25 years, you say...WHERE DID GET THEM FROM? NOT FROM TRADITIOAL SOURCES BUT RATHER FROM THE RUG IN FRONT OF SAYLERS OFFICE AND COACH GLENN IS SWEEPING MORE OF THE SAME UNDER THE RUG WITH THE ONLOOKING AND APPROVAL OF PRESIDENT ABBOTT. Now lets be candid. That is dramatic as hell. I know others feel the same. All that is needed on here is dialogue and fair and honest debate. Dramatics don't play a role. The other dramatic line was FROM HERE ON OUT, I AM GOING TO CONSIDER THE DAKOTADOME THE COUNTRY CLUB SUITESof the DakotaDOME FIELD. That place is anything but a country club. My point is that is again really dramatic.
Ok, I think I have made my point with you, so now lets debate. I disagree that many people will be satisfied with 2 or 3 wins next year. But before we go into depth on this discussion I want to say that although the posters on here are passionate about the Coyotes, the overall active fan base of USD is not very good. I hate to admit it, but unless we are undefeated or close to it, getting people to support USD is tough. Regardless of the sport. It's even true with a majority of former players. They are more apt to go to a USD vs Big 10 or Big 12 team on the road then drive to Vermillion to watch us play UNI or Illinois State. So former players are just as guilty. But in order to build a winning program, you have to take your first step. Hopefully in football, Coach Glenn is that first step. As you know, last year I was in Ed's corner. That was last year. If you were right, and Ed wasn't the guy, then we have to accept the hire of Coach Joe. And as I have said many times, there is Not a coach out there that is more COYOTE then Coach Joe. Maybe, just maybe, Joe inherited a team that was spent. The talent level at key positions (offensive and defensive lines) is not good. If that offensive line is as bad as I think it is, then it's no wonder we had trouble moving the ball. Until those two areas are shored up, then we will have to accept mediocracy. No lines, no wins. Period. I don't know the answer about our assistants, but I am willing to accept Joes judgement. Maybe he is wrong, if so, then you are correct, the program is set back a few more years. However if he is right, then the healing process is expedited.
Lastly, in closing for now, we all should be bantering about making USD better and not drawing attention to ourselves. One thing we all could agree to is that we wished more fans had CF's passion
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Post by Coyote Fan on Nov 22, 2012 20:16:10 GMT -6
Yoteforever,
Thanks for taking the time to at least write out a well though out post. We are both passionate about the Yotes we just have a difference of opinion as far as what it will take to be successfull. You may not agree with my style and I can respect that but at least you acknowledged some of the points I made in my longer posts. I appreciate that. I make my points wanting people to make a good rebuttal and hopefully it leads to a long debate. That is kind of the point of forums and conversations in general if for people to disagree.
I agreed with the hiring of Joe Glenn I can even agree with keeping Joe Glenn. I think that shows that I am not inflexible. What I can't agree with is to keep coaches around that have never proven to really be able to succeed of improve on their coaching abilities. There was some question as to how and why they got their jobs in the first place.
This years team is not even close to being a contender. Spin it any way you want but the fact remains the fact. With all the facts in place I just don't see how one can make the conclusion that to stay the exact course is the right way to do things.
Yoteforever you are a business man so should know that when getting very low results, like rock bottom results it's not wise to continue on the exact same path. That is insanity and will drive it out of business.
I guess what I am saying is that I have kind of proven by past results that having patience is not always the best way to go. Why is it that people always tell everyone to have patience after a losing season. Saying that and doing that does not conform to the idea of having urgency. I have never really seen the administration have a sense of urgency. I believe that is why we are in this predicament in the first place.
Just to reiterate my reasons for my disappointment in this season goes way beyond just this season. It is one heck of a culmination of disappointments I would suppose.
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Post by yoteforever on Nov 22, 2012 21:08:31 GMT -6
Yoteforever, Thanks for taking the time to at least write out a well though out post. We are both passionate about the Yotes we just have a difference of opinion as far as what it will take to be successfull. You may not agree with my style and I can respect that but at least you acknowledged some of the points I made in my longer posts. I appreciate that. I make my points wanting people to make a good rebuttal and hopefully it leads to a long debate. That is kind of the point of forums and conversations in general if for people to disagree. I agreed with the hiring of Joe Glenn I can even agree with keeping Joe Glenn. I think that shows that I am not inflexible. What I can't agree with is to keep coaches around that have never proven to really be able to succeed of improve on their coaching abilities. There was some question as to how and why they got their jobs in the first place. This years team is not even close to being a contender. Spin it any way you want but the fact remains the fact. With all the facts in place I just don't see how one can make the conclusion that to stay the exact course is the right way to do things. Yoteforever you are a business man so should know that when getting very low results, like rock bottom results it's not wise to continue on the exact same path. That is insanity and will drive it out of business. I guess what I am saying is that I have kind of proven by past results that having patience is not always the best way to go. Why is it that people always tell everyone to have patience after a losing season. Saying that and doing that does not conform to the idea of having urgency. I have never really seen the administration have a sense of urgency. I believe that is why we are in this predicament in the first place. Just to reiterate my reasons for my disappointment in this season goes way beyond just this season. It is one heck of a culmination of disappointments I would suppose. If we had the tools and talent I would agree with you. But if he cupboard is empty as a result of Ed, then you have to have patience because there is no other choice. If you compare it to business as you did, you then have to decide if its the salesman or the sales manager whose to blame. In the business world, I can do the rebuilding one of two ways. I can go into the free market and hire people to get the job done immediately if I pay them and give enough incentives to make the change. In college, you either recruit freshman or Juco players. In either case, they both have to learn the system. Also, what USD has to offer is similar to every other school. A free education and a chance to play. As much as I love USD, we really don't have anything to sell other than being a good school. Weather for many sucks, town size often is an obstacle, etc. at least in business I can offer an extra $$ or two. If you let Glenn go after one year, or even 2, you will never hire a top notched cach again or as long as Sayler is there. You can't have that reputation. Make sense?
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