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Post by Cousin Eddie on Nov 25, 2012 13:07:11 GMT -6
obc, I am on board with you. I think an option style offense could work great with this team. Glenn's comment when he was hired was "I learned how to run the option directly from Tom Osborne." Nobody did it better.
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Post by azsod73 on Nov 25, 2012 13:19:41 GMT -6
Coyotefan - like your post about what kind of coach/players you would have in your footabll program as an AD. Three words come to mind: ain't gonna happen. Sorry, I wish USD could recruit that level of player but the great majority of time - not every time - that type of player is going to go to ... (very long list of let's say about 100 FBS or FCS schools). In any event it is wise to assume that most top level high school players don't exactly have Vermillion on their radar. I'm a bit of a realist and have stated over and over that USD has to adapt to its situation and develop a style that can compete with teams in the MVFC, especially when playing games in the friendly confines of the Dome. You want a good offense? Run the ball. Ball control. That's what USD won with in the seventies and eighties. I wish we could but we just can't recruit that big, smart, strong-armed QB year in and year out. However, I believe we can recruit running backs and we have had some good ones in past years. O-line? Again, quickness wins. If you study how the line in action, words like leverage, balance, footwork, technique come to mind before things like height and weight (read fat). We might have one or two big, strong, quick linemen on the team at any given time. That's not enough since o-linemen must constantly work together on blocking schemes, etc. One breakdown blows the play. I think every year the team could have maybe 7-8 smaller, quicker, fully capable linemean though. I'd like to have that mythical 310 lb guy who can actually block on the perimeter and pancake D-linemen; just don't think many of them will show up on our team. Defense? Offensive ball control. Maybe we can get that 6' 3" four-star recruit all-state DT but I doubt it. In fact, recruiting a good defense may be even more difficult than an offense. A grind-it-out triple option running game may not be flashy but it gives defenses a fit and can wear them down so we have a chance to hold onto leads and maybe win a few games in the 4th quarter. Coaches? Not much of an opinion here other than simply recruiting good players and calling plays oversimplifies things. In USD's case 3 or probably 4 years seems about right for the current crew. One thing. If I were head coach I would not want to inherit anyone in a coordinator position. Just like in the business world, you want to hire people (coaches) you can not only relate to but learn from. Hiring and firing are difficult tasks. Ironically, such tasks can get YOU fired. Does anyone out there think we can actually recruit the kind of players Coyotefan wants? Maybe posters could vote on this. In any event, I suggest we get back together on this topic after we learn what recuits are coming USD's way this spring. An excellent dose of reality...
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Post by Coyote Fan on Nov 25, 2012 15:05:00 GMT -6
Wow does this fanbase have low expectations. So I guess since we can't recruit good players lets just run an arcaic offense that most defenses in the Valley that can stop the run will be able to stop.
If we are going to run the triple option offense lets call Denny Creehan or maybe Barry Switzer and see what he is up to as I am sure he would be a good OC to go with.
So according to what is being said in here we should not strive for good recruits as they are ungettable, kind of like Zach Zenner and Stefan Logan. There are plenty of good players that come from the FCS and succeed in the NFL. Why be so short sighted when it comes to recruiting.
So lets go back to the past, forget about the future and run a triple option. Hey I guess I can't argue because I really don't know much about football.
All I can say is if we continue to think small we will be small and get small results.
Why build a new arena or expand the Dakotadome if we are just going to stay small time as many of the old timers want. The fans won't fill those facilities anyway, so why build them. It's not too late to re-establish close by rivalries such as with Morningside and maybe we can get one started with Northwestern,IA. The triple option might work against them. Augie and USF are a bit ahead of USD right now so we need to work up to be able to play to that kind of a level.
Maybe some day USD can build up a fanbase of progressive thinkers but as of now that time is not now.
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obc
Senior Member
Posts: 781
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Post by obc on Nov 25, 2012 16:16:27 GMT -6
Choosing to run an option based offense would not be lowering our expectations. Cal Poly doesn't view their offense as that. Georgia Southern has been a perennial power running that style.
Maybe someday USD can sign and compete successfully for the top conventional skill players in the region. Right now the other area MVFC teams and UND are out recruiting USD where our recruiting overlaps more often than not. Just a fact.
Facilities and tradition are the biggest black marks. The facilities can be completely done in three years.
SDSU runs a pretty old school balanced attack on offense and a vanilla 4-3 defense. They have proven there are enough players out there if you can find them that can make you a national contender.
USD can do the same - question is will they?
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Post by Coyote Fan on Nov 25, 2012 17:00:08 GMT -6
Tradition a black mark I can see that. As far as facilities I don't think that is a disadvantage. I think we have an average facility that can really be a noise box. Certainly the facility at USD isn't any worse than what they have at SDSU and that isn't holding them back. Maybe the weight rooms, office space, practice facilities aren't the best but the dome is a nice place to play for the home team and a nice place to watch a game from a fans perspective.
I am actually quite open to many things. What I am not open to is losing football regardless of reasoning because with every excuse to lose there should be an equal reason as to why a program can win. I can reason with alot as long as it makes sense. I can reason with decision making that makes sound sense. I simply didn't observe a whole lot that made much sense. Glenn was hired which seemed to be a good hire at the time. The Glenn supporters claim that he was left kind of a mess with player personell. If that is the case than shouldn't it be said that the more housecleaning done at the time of Ed's departure the better. What just simply doesn't make sense is that USD put Glenn in place but allowed coaches to be kept under Ed's regime that didn't have the resumes to be where they are at. It's like they only partially did what they needed to do after the 2011 season to go in a different direction. I think by not getting rid of more coaches before Glenn arrived held this program back this year and will continue to hold the Coyotes back going forward.
Like I said I can be sensible and am not as ruthless as people would like to believe. By looking at the facts and looking at things objectively we should have gone a different way with some other coaches.
As far as Wes is concerned I hope he completely proves me wrong and figures out a way to get this offense moving and making it look like a legit D1 offense. So far though I just haven't seen it. A handfull of years is enough where he should have gone from potential to reality as a good OC.
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obc
Senior Member
Posts: 781
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Post by obc on Nov 25, 2012 17:21:24 GMT -6
The facilities disadvantage I am referring to is:
An outdated FB venue with wooden ugly bleachers on one side. An inadequate weight training facility - I think the equipment is not functionally lacking but compare the look to NDSU, SDSU, and UNI and you will see what I mean. Meeting rooms and coaches offices are a joke When FB players make their official visits during basketball season they see our makeshift basketball venue. Frost is not a great venue but in comparison looks great.
Facilities are scheduled to be fixed - this will help for sure.
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Post by #1CoyoteFan (Admin) on Nov 25, 2012 21:06:45 GMT -6
Agreed with obc about the facilities but I would cringe at the veer offense. Harding ran it this year and got creamed in the playoffs. I think a power running game would be the way to go with a qb with a decent arm. Defensively, I like to blitz a bit but as long as the d can get it done, base is also good. Look at SDSU.
Also, Stefan Logan was never a big time recruiting get. He was a diamond in the rough. Also, I don't remember anyone praising the zenner signing either. He was a good get but no one thought nation's best
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Post by dklemme on Dec 2, 2012 23:44:33 GMT -6
Denny Creehan didn't run the triple option. He based out of the Wing-T. There might have been some option in there, but there was more stuff as well. The Bison ran split back veer very well in the 90s. And someone mentioned Georgia Southern too. great SBV team. If you want to see an offense that spreads teams out and has them make decisions in the option game, go up and watch Wofford play NDSU this weekend. They hardly every have to throw it and they are good at what they do. They compete every year. You could still get some RBs and athletes on the field, but the line up front has to get the job done.
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Post by Coyote Fan on Dec 3, 2012 17:31:13 GMT -6
If Wofford comes in and has success against NDSU running their option offense I would be surprised. NDSU is very good against the run and will figure out how to stop it.
The offense I would like to see is a balanced one but one where having a passing quarterback would be essential. If that QB is mobile so be it than that is a plus but passing and cerebral ability comes before mobility in my book. Let the backs do most of the running. Without a good passing quarterback if makes life for the defense much easier. I like sets that consist of 5 linemen, 4 receivers and a quick elusive runningback. I would run a ton out of it and simply keep defenses honest. That is not to say I wouldn't run some tighter formations but my preference is to spread the field and take what is open. It takes an intelligent quarterback to play that way and to keep defenses honest. That isn't the only way just the way I happen to like best.
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Post by dklemme on Dec 5, 2012 18:42:07 GMT -6
Do the Yotes look at Max Shortell? He's leaving the gophers.
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Post by #1CoyoteFan (Admin) on Dec 5, 2012 19:30:37 GMT -6
I would hope so.
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