Conference Poll

[#1CoyoteFan (Admin)]

Coyote Fan wanted me to post this poll. He was pming me all night saying how much he wanted this poll up to settle it once and for all basically.

Okay, that was just a joke, but I feel it's a good poll to have.

I honestly think that USD made the right decision because all of the conference moves are about money, and that's how USD made it's decision. In reading over everything, the BSC and UND seem to have no ill will toward the Coyotes, same with the fans, well except for irrational ones.

[Coyote Fan]

You know what poll I am talking about #1CF, and it's not the one that you just posted. Put the poll up that we were talking about and end this banning speculation once and for all.

[HadleyCoyote]

If coyote fan and #1 don't stop bickering, I'm going to ban you both. At least I'll ask the admin to do it.

It's unbecoming.

[#1CoyoteFan (Admin)]

Haha who says I am not all for banning myself Hadley.

So far it's 3 to 1 for the MVFC and the Summit. Like I have said, it seems like the definitive right choice, even if it burned a couple bridges. It does seem like UND and the Big Sky both think this was a good move for USD and the Big Sky was a good move for UND. Seems like UND knew the MVFC didn't want them and moved on to there own respectable conference.

[usdfbalum]

I think the MVFC/Summit was the clear choice for:

1. Increasing season ticket sales, Howling Pack Memberships, student interest, and attendance at FB, M & W BB.

2. Better budget decision for the money USD has to spend currently.

3. A chance to potentially play in a conference tournament for BB in your State's biggest market. By the way, SF is not a lock to keep it even though I think it is a great spot. There are some other spots preparing to bid on it. Sioux Falls needs to be aggressive here.

4. The MVFC's footprint is where USD recruits a majority of it's student body.


That being said, I still believe the BSC (as it stands now) had some big advantages. It is an all-sports league - I prefer those. Adding everything together BSC is a more prestigious conference and the competition would have given USD more National exposure. I believe there are more Universities that share USD's academic vision in the BSC.

The BSC would have been the aggressive choice and I was hoping for that. Would have been a big step for USD to venture out and find success where other Dakota schools had not. Had I not thought MT & MT st were not on the way out in the next 3-5 yrs I would be more disappointed.

The MVFC/Summit will be very challenging for USD and USD will have to step it up to be competitive. Anyone that doubts that should look at NDSU - they have fan interest, facilities, and money - and they have had big challenges - mixed with moments of success (NCAA birth in MBB).

Really understand why Sayler went the direction he did. It was the smartest choice. I just wish Sayler could have negotiated the Sanford / USD Medical school deal - USD would have gotten a lot more than the $20 million they got for naming rights! Should have been $100 million at least.

[usdlaw]

USD made the right choice for USD. Are there some advantages to the BIg Sky, yes. But the disadvantages outweighed the advantages. Plain and simple.

This decision was not just about SDSU and renewing a rivalry. It was about money, fan support, student time away from class, etc. Playing SDSU again is just icing on the cake.

Coyote Points just took on a whole new meaning. The first number you should be calling this morning is 677-5959 and talk to Brad Simons. Order your season tickets now. Remember, if you have season tickets next year you have priority for the season after that - hint hint hint. Crap, I forgot to renew my basketball season tickets - better get that done.

We had just over 1,400 season tickets sold in football this year. That number needs to be 2,500 for next year, and 4,000 for the year after that (that first year against SDSU). With that, of course, comes a Howling Pack membership. For that check out www.howlingpack.com
or send me a personal message

Pierreyote has it right. he joined and doesn't go to many games but you know he will be in attendance when SDSU, NDSU, UNI, Oral Roberts and Oakland come to town. If he needs a ride, just go to Kennebec and stick out your thumb. My parents drive to most Yote games.

We have just over 600 HP members now. I want that number to be a 1,000 by next year. There's no reason it shouldn't be now that we are playing SDSU again. Even if you can't get season tickets, remember HP donations count toward Coyote Points, which makes you higher on the totem poll for away games. Hint Hint Hint

And I agree the bickering between #1 and CF is getting old. Most admins like to post a little closer to the belt.

[Yote 53]

In the short run, yes, the MVFC was the right decision. In the long run we are going to regret this decision. The issue I have is not with the MVFC, it is a top notch conference, the issue is we just blew our chance to upgrade out of the Summit League.

Every school that has entered the Summit has looked at this conference as a stepping stone to another conference. This conference is not a stable, long term home. Based on our location, our next level conferences are the Valley or the Big Sky. We'll never get a Valley invite and we just rejected a BSC invite that we had in hand. So, now what do we do for the future growth of our athletice dept and raising the profile of the U?

The BSC is everything usdfbalum said, higher profile, more prestigous, institutions that more reflect USD, a chance to vastly increase the exposure of USD. Why does USD always settle for the easy option? This was our chance to blaze our own trail and do something great, instead we just settle for what is easier. I'm sure those that only cared about playing State and playing in the Summit Tourney in Sioux Falls are happy. Your myopic vision of the future just came true. It could have been so much better.

So, my brother, who lives over in eastern Iowa, calls me last night because he heard the news about USD going to the MVFC. He's an impartial outsider and his view probably represents the view of many outsiders. He asked me what the h*ll we were thinking. Why would we pass on a chance to get in the BSC to stay in the Summit. His opinion was the Summit is a garbage conference. That's what most outsiders think. In the midwest the order goes, Big Ten, Big Twelve, Valley, MAC,.............Summit.

FWIW, every coach wanted the Sky, Sayler wanted the Sky. Abbott had signed off. We were set and ready to go. This decision to change our minds came down to Pres Abbott and the BOR. I'm fairly certain there was some heavy influence from the BOR and also do not buy Patty V's timeline of events. I'm supposed to believe she just woke up Tuesday and realized the U's were not a package deal. BS. She knew, and if she didn't she had months and months to lob us a phone call to find out. Something happened here and it smells pretty fishy. I'd really like to hear the true inside story.

I'll still support the Coyotes, I'll still be in the HP, I'll still have season tickets. But I am very upset and disappointed at the lack of vision the administration has shown here.

[marchingneck]

I realize this is the in the MVFC section, but there was mention about how bad of a basketball conference the Summit is.
I just wanted to post some analysis I did on our own forums about how the Summit improves with the changes over the next couple of years.
Originally posted 11/4/2010 at 12:27:13 AM here: leathernecknation.com/Topic8819-17-1.aspx

Just did a quick check on the power ratings (rankings) for the conference as it stands right now:

56 Oakland
81 IUPUI
123 Oral Roberts
212 IPFW
226 South Dakota St
267 Western Ill.
273 North Dakota St
276 Mizzou KC
316 Centenary
324 Southern Utah

We already knew that Centenary was leaving for Div. III, and as of this week, we know that Southern Utah is going to the Big Sky conference. Up until tonight, it looked like the U of South Dakota was trying to find a way to get out of the Summit so they could go with all sports into the Big Sky. However, the news tonight is that USD is joining the MVFC for football, partially so they can stay in the Summit League.

If put together today, the new Summit would look like this:

56 Oakland
81 IUPUI
123 Oral Roberts
156 South Dakota
212 IPFW
226 South Dakota St
267 Western Ill.
273 North Dakota St
276 Mizzou KC

I admit, I don't know much about RPI or college basketball rankings, but this seems like a pretty significant upgrade to me.
Our current conference average RPI is .4657 putting us in 23rd out of 32 conferences (if you count the independents as a conference). Given the dropping of the worst two teams in the conference, and adding a pretty decent team, it brings our conference average RPI up to .4818, which would move the Summit League up to 17th, jumping ahead of the Ivy League, Sun Belt, Ohio Valley, Big West, Big Sky and Southern conferences, and right behind the Mid-American Conference.
realtimerpi.com/2009-2010/rpi_conf_Men.html

Now, all of this is based off of last year's results, but still, I think this is a pretty decent step up for the conference.

[yoteforever]

This is really a tough, tough call. On one hand, it is easy to say that we made the right decision going to the MVFC/Summit. There are many reasons to do so. Travel expense, buyout clauses, rivalries. All of those in and of themself are decent reasons.

Yet a move to the BCS would have been bold and in my opinion visionary. The negatives to this move are the strengths of the other. Travel, rivalry, expense of buyout.

Then you add the other ingredients and the water only gets mor murky. Starting with the Summit, I am like Yote 53 and CF, I think it is a weak conference with teams looking to bail out. The only possible (and I stress possible, but unlikely) is if enough Summit teams bailed, and somehow the MVC expanded and included the Dakota teams. Regarding the MVFC, I think the strenght of the league stands on its own. I would compare it to the Big Sky. Maybe one year one league is higher than the other, but for my money we are talking about the same strength.

The negative on the Big Sky is the possible (and likely at some point soon) move of Montana (and possibly Montana State) to FBS. Personally speaking, I think that is a given. I believe that Montana feels they can navigate those waters and end up mostly like Boise State did. That does dilute the value of the league in my opinion. Secondly, we have to admit as a fan base we struggle getting fans into the Dome except for "big": games. How long would it take to have a rivalry in the BSC tht held meaning to our fans. Remember the dilemma that Abbott and Sayler are dealing with is the building of a new basketball arena. They need to have butts in seats, and I do think there is a side to their argument that they have to have some rivalry games NOW to put fans in the seats.

There were alot of things at work here. I know the deadline smells fishy, but I think I do believe veryone when they say how it went down. The only criticism of the process would have been the Commish not knowing USD and UND were not a package deal. She ASSUMED they were when they wer not.

The second screwup came from the BSC commish when he didn't put a deadline down to USD and have them commit to the league the same day as UND and SUU. Had that clause been in the offer, I know for a fact we would have been in the Big Sky today.

Here is how I look at it. Personally I wanted the Big Sky. It was a bold move and a fresh face to our athletics. The Big Sky is simply more stable and prestigous than The Summit. However, given ALL that happened, and taking people at their words, I can see why President Abbott made the decision he did. I trust Jim, he has done so many good things for USD, that I give him thebenefit of the doubt on this deal. I threw away my Big Sky cap and put on my MVFC/Summit hat. I am on board with the decision, so let's move forward because the decision isn't going to change.

Final analysis. Football wins either way

[Yote 53]

Don't get me wrong, I trust Pres Abbott too. Something happened though. Wouldn't suprise me if this was Patty V's vision all along. Divide the U's and conquer. She didn't want UND, to far away, but she wanted USD to further lock in the SU's who could have been a flight risk with any more BSC shakeups. Once UND signed without USD blood was in the water. Was this USD's plan all along? Innocently seperate ourselves from UND to see what happened? If so, and the ultimate goal at the top levels was MVFC all along, then we played a great hand of poker. Actually has the stroke of good politician and savvy businessman all over it. Both describe Pres Abbott. UND can be ticked, and rightfully so. But right now they are the odd Dakota school out, and I don't think the NDSU relationship is improving. They'll still deal with us, but a lot of trust was lost.

[#1CoyoteFan (Admin)]

Yoteforever and Yote 53 are completely right. The Big Sky is the better and more stable conference right now. I am very worried that Montana and Montana State could be leaving though.

I do think a lot of the decision came down to money as well. If USD didn't have to pay the Summit buyout, I think USD is easily in the BSC right now, plain and simple and the MVFC wouldn't have even been a factor. I think that was a greater decision than the travel costs. Like Sayler said, they would've made the travel costs work.

Marching neck made a good point about RPI. BSC basketball just got a lot weaker by adding North Dakota and Southern Utah, well its RPI did I should say. So the Summit 'technically" got better I guess you could say.

Yes, the timeline that Patty V set down doesn't seem right at all. I just don't think the MVFC wanted to expand at all, but USD and other schools convinced Patty V once they found out about the BSC. But they didn't want UND. That is clearly evident.

It's interesting how this all went down and what USD's thought process was. The BSC should've put a deadline on USD to make its decision, and if they would've, I agree, USD would be in the BSC.

[Coyote Fan]

IMO this is the best thread for good discussion since all these rumors came down. Very good thoughtfull analysis here. The first thing that stands out that could lead to me jumping off a cliff is that IF the BOR screwed this up in any way for USD I am going to be majorly, and I mean MAJORLY dissappointed in them and the state of South Dakota. The vision in this state can really be self defeating but when a state decides to elect Noem to Washington regardless of part affiliation we have a program. I am not trying to make this about politics but the only reason people voted for Noem was that they either hated Herseth-Sandlin or are a staunch republican. She is absolutely clueless and with all the adds I listened to from her in not one of them did I hear why she was worthy of being elected. All they were, were to cut down Stephanie. The typical South Dakota way of thinking does not go much beyond the boarders and if USD was going to go away from SDSU it was probably haulted right there. Maybe the BOR is a non issue in all of this but as soon as I found out USD was going to go to them I knew that trouble was likely to come from it. Whether that was because of USD's own backtracking or whatever something definately changed.

This is my opinion and has been for the last few days. Terry Vandrovec just mentioned this on an interview on KWSN. I believe that USD was firmly committed to the big sky but once the BIGS started thinking about it more (and that includes SDSU and the other Summit or Valley schools) they started to realise something.

USD's inclusion may not have been because they necessarily wanted USD but because they were protecting their own interests. I spelled this out on a post somewhere a few days ago. USD was in a position of power as the floater between the Big Sky and Summit/MVFC. The writing was on the wall. USD could flip the power of the entire region to the west or midwest because the dominos were going to start to fall after that point.

The biggest power player in all of this is the Missouri Valley all sports Conference. It wouldn't surprise me if the Valley schools (even if they were not necessarily those sponcering football) made some kind of a decision to protect the MVFC which is dependant on the Summit. the MVC only wants to keep the Summit around to give their schools a place to play football. If the Summit crumbles, the MVFC gets nervous and if the MVFC gets nervous the MVC gets nervous. Something could have happened all the way up as far as a school like Creighton or Bradley or anyone for that matter. USD's decision could have had an impact on the stability of at least 4 different conferences, Big Sky, Summit, MVFC and MVC.