Football Coaching Discussion

[Coyote Fan]

A few more thoughts that I forgot to mention the first time. Jumping from D2 to competing in the Valley is not new nor is it something USD shouldn't be expected to do well or even mediocre for that matter. SDSU is (from recollection) 33-17 in their short time in the MVFC so a peer instituation is and has been having success in this conference. I can understand not wanting to compare with NDSU as they are a different animal even to established programs in the FCS. SDSU's success is prime evidence that USD can and should be having somewhat similar results. The Yotes are capable of winning and have enough people who care (over 10K in attendance). If you would be told without mentioning a name that the new coach following Meierkort would be 3-15 in the Valley most would say that SD needs a new direction. It shouldn't matter whether that name is Joe Glenn or anyone else, that simply shouldn't cut it. Fans should not accept it.

[obc]

Oct 13, 2014 17:35:27 GMT -6 Coyote Fan said:

A few more thoughts that I forgot to mention the first time. Jumping from D2 to competing in the Valley is not new nor is it something USD shouldn't be expected to do well or even mediocre for that matter. SDSU is (from recollection) 33-17 in their short time in the MVFC so a peer instituation is and has been having success in this conference. I can understand not wanting to compare with NDSU as they are a different animal even to established programs in the FCS. SDSU's success is prime evidence that USD can and should be having somewhat similar results. The Yotes are capable of winning and have enough people who care (over 10K in attendance). If you would be told without mentioning a name that the new coach following Meierkort would be 3-15 in the Valley most would say that SD needs a new direction. It shouldn't matter whether that name is Joe Glenn or anyone else, that simply shouldn't cut it. Fans should not accept it.

I am not for firing Joe Glenn, but understand the argument by those that want that. I am not interested in excuses and want results. I know USD can be competitive and move to the top tier of the FCS. SDSU has had a better transition in FB without a doubt. This is a different MVFC today than the first day SDSU and NDSU entered. Two important things happened over that time. First they elevated the competive landscape - especially NDSU. The rest of the league worked hard to step up their game and have gradually done that creating what we see today. Secondly, by SDSU and NDSU moving up first they were able to further secure their recruiting dominance in their geographical footprints. They had an unquestioned advantage becoming the first choice as the highest level of FB available in their states. This has affected both USD and UND. UND prior to NDSU moving up had beaten the Bison something like 7 of the previous 10 games. IMO they were still behind the Bison as a program, but they were much much closer than the gap that exists today.
Even with those reasons and obstacles I expect USD to rise above what they have shown. We are halfway through the season and how the team finishes will tell the whole story. Going into the year I think the most optimistic of Coyotes thought 7 wins with some luck. USD is 1-4 currently in D1 games- one game below where I thought they would be. Montana was the game I thought USD would get and they didn't.

USD can beat MSU, WIU, and YSU if they don't implode on themselves.
ISUr and NDSU are very tough matchups. ISUr being more likely a win than NDSU. Stranger things have happened. Those games will be like UNI - up to the OL IMO. Protect Earl and give the ability to run a little and there will be a chance.
SDSU is a in-State Rival game and anything can happen.

A question I would be interested in hearing from the group is - 1. What was your W/L prediction heading into the year? 2. What would you have to see in terms of W/L the rest of the year to say - I am comfortable with Glenn coaching next year, I see progress?

I was hoping for 7 wins, but if I had been forced to bet my house on it I would have said 4-4 in the Valley and 5-6 against d1 competition - including an unwind able game against Oregon.

I think 4 more wins this year would be a strong finish. Three is likely. Two would be very disappointing.

[sdyotefan]

I'm not into predicting wins and losses. I've tried that with the NFL and am definitely not good at it. I agree obc with your thought that 4-4 would be a strong finish. I also believe that another two great recruiting years will be huge and that is more important to the program than even this year's W-L record!

[Yotes]

I have avoided bringing up this question before, but I think now is as good of a time as ever: How long does Joe Glenn plan on being head coach? Is he done after this year, or does he take the Bill Snyder approach and stay for another decade? I have gotten no good indication to make an estimate, what do you guys think?

I will say, if Joe Glenn gets fired we can just end the program altogether. It would be moronic to do such a thing, and I doubt it's even a consideration for Herbster.

[Coyote Fan]

Although I did not make it official on the board I figured about 3-5 in the conference was about right. As things are now I think 2-6 is looking probable. A non competitive road game followed by a loss to a mid level MVFC team in UNI. I could see a W vs Western Illinois at home and maybe a W somewhere else but right now it is escaping me which game it will be. at MSU, at SDSU, at YSU vs NDSU and vs Illinois State are all looking like losses right now. Maybe the Yotes will get one of those but they are probably the underdog in each one of those games. Based upon what should happen we are possibly looking at 1-7. The UNI loss hurts the longterm outlook no doubt.

[Coyote Fan]

Oct 13, 2014 19:53:48 GMT -6 Yotes said:

I have avoided bringing up this question before, but I think now is as good of a time as ever: How long does Joe Glenn plan on being head coach? Is he done after this year, or does he take the Bill Snyder approach and stay for another decade? I have gotten no good indication to make an estimate, what do you guys think?

I will say, if Joe Glenn gets fired we can just end the program altogether. It would be moronic to do such a thing, and I doubt it's even a consideration for Herbster.

If you want to keep Glenn I guess that is up to you but I would hardly call it "moronic" to fire a coach that has not only lost to the tone of 3-15 but in many cases hasn't even been competitive in games against the top tier of the MVFC. People see the name Joe Glenn and they get way to gushy about it. Glen has way too much loyalty to his own coaches and players and fans have way too much loyalty towards him. He isn't getting the job done and that is what matters. What he is doing this year should be a good indication of what life with Joe Glenn is like. Coaches are going to show their true colors by the end of their third year. It doesn't take longer than that and in most cases improvement happens much sooner, often in year 1. As I said before Glenn is not going to get any better, he is simply going to get older.

I was obviously for the firing of Meierkort but objectively he has probably done a little better than Glenn has despite having a team full of undisciplined players. At least Ed held serve at home pretty good. Does it really matter that Glenn has done things the "right way". What does that mean anyway. He may have good guys on his team but the world is full of good guys and many of them suck at football. I am not saying they suck but I would rather have an undisciplined group of winners than a team full of good guy losers. It doesn't matter because USD deserves better than the both of them.

Herbster made a very tough decision getting rid of Joey James in favor of coach Smith. Herbster has actually impressed me more than I thought I would be when he was given the full time AD job. It would be tough but Herbster should wipe the slate clean and start over next season, and no I don't think it would be like totally starting over because the right coach can start having an impact in year 1. It doesn't take several years to build up a program just the right coach to get a turnaround started rather quickly. And no Wes should not be the guy but rather the second guy out the door a long ways behind Triplett.

I think this has been a good discussion and regardless of opinion lets keep things civil in this discussion.

[Yote 53]

Honest assessment, I don't see us winning a game in the Valley this year. Not now, not after what I've seen so far. WIU is our best shot and I think we'll do something stupid to screw that up. Never thought I would say this when the season started. I thought we had a real shot against UNI but screwed ourselves with poor, poor special teams plays and way too many penalties on offense. Unless something changes and this team quits hurting itself and gets mentally tougher I don't see this ending very pretty.

Now, all that being said, of the 4 Dakota schools I think we come in 3rd and are way ahead of UND. Our record this season will not be a reflection of the quality of this team, it will be what it is because of how difficult the Valley is. Nothing about the Big Sky has impressed me so far this season. I originally wanted USD in that conference. I think we would have been more successful there. Not as good, but more wins.

[obc]

Oct 13, 2014 21:57:30 GMT -6 Yote 53 said:

Honest assessment, I don't see us winning a game in the Valley this year. Not now, not after what I've seen so far. WIU is our best shot and I think we'll do something stupid to screw that up. Never thought I would say this when the season started. I thought we had a real shot against UNI but screwed ourselves with poor, poor special teams plays and way too many penalties on offense. Unless something changes and this team quits hurting itself and gets mentally tougher I don't see this ending very pretty.

Now, all that being said, of the 4 Dakota schools I think we come in 3rd and are way ahead of UND. Our record this season will not be a reflection of the quality of this team, it will be what it is because of how difficult the Valley is. Nothing about the Big Sky has impressed me so far this season. I originally wanted USD in that conference. I think we would have been more successful there. Not as good, but more wins.

I really hope you are wrong, but this is a real possibility. Going winless in the Valley in our third year is unacceptable as far as I am concerned. This team has enough talent to win several if they don't continue to be mentally weak.
Maybe it is the fan in me but I think the Yotes will finish strong.

[Yotes]

I still think if you step back and take a look at the season, we really aren't in any situation to say the season is lost yet. There are red flags for sure, but there is still plenty of time for our guys to put things together and finish with a record most fans would have been happy with going into the season.

[ctc2010]

Oct 14, 2014 9:50:23 GMT -6 Yotes said:

I still think if you step back and take a look at the season, we really aren't in any situation to say the season is lost yet. There are red flags for sure, but there is still plenty of time for our guys to put things together and finish with a record most fans would have been happy with going into the season.

Especially considering we've had our starting quarterback for a game and a half this year.

[Iceman]

Oct 13, 2014 20:17:38 GMT -6 Coyote Fan said:

Oct 13, 2014 19:53:48 GMT -6 Yotes said:

I have avoided bringing up this question before, but I think now is as good of a time as ever: How long does Joe Glenn plan on being head coach? Is he done after this year, or does he take the Bill Snyder approach and stay for another decade? I have gotten no good indication to make an estimate, what do you guys think?

I will say, if Joe Glenn gets fired we can just end the program altogether. It would be moronic to do such a thing, and I doubt it's even a consideration for Herbster.

If you want to keep Glenn I guess that is up to you but I would hardly call it "moronic" to fire a coach that has not only lost to the tone of 3-15 but in many cases hasn't even been competitive in games against the top tier of the MVFC. People see the name Joe Glenn and they get way to gushy about it. Glen has way too much loyalty to his own coaches and players and fans have way too much loyalty towards him. He isn't getting the job done and that is what matters. What he is doing this year should be a good indication of what life with Joe Glenn is like. Coaches are going to show their true colors by the end of their third year. It doesn't take longer than that and in most cases improvement happens much sooner, often in year 1. As I said before Glenn is not going to get any better, he is simply going to get older.

I was obviously for the firing of Meierkort but objectively he has probably done a little better than Glenn has despite having a team full of undisciplined players. At least Ed held serve at home pretty good. Does it really matter that Glenn has done things the "right way". What does that mean anyway. He may have good guys on his team but the world is full of good guys and many of them suck at football. I am not saying they suck but I would rather have an undisciplined group of winners than a team full of good guy losers. It doesn't matter because USD deserves better than the both of them.

Herbster made a very tough decision getting rid of Joey James in favor of coach Smith. Herbster has actually impressed me more than I thought I would be when he was given the full time AD job. It would be tough but Herbster should wipe the slate clean and start over next season, and no I don't think it would be like totally starting over because the right coach can start having an impact in year 1. It doesn't take several years to build up a program just the right coach to get a turnaround started rather quickly. And no Wes should not be the guy but rather the second guy out the door a long ways behind Triplett.

I think this has been a good discussion and regardless of opinion lets keep things civil in this discussion.

Man I still don't get you at all. What the heck are you thinking? You would rather have a team that wins and could give a crap less about everything else? So you would rather have kids like Jaemis Winston on your team? Or hey, how about all the good publicity we are getting from the tax fraud thing. Or trashing the locker room at UND after the game and allowing it to happen. That's all great publicity, but hey if we are winning, that's all no big deal right?

[ctc2010]

Oct 14, 2014 23:57:56 GMT -6 Iceman said:

Oct 13, 2014 20:17:38 GMT -6 Coyote Fan said:

If you want to keep Glenn I guess that is up to you but I would hardly call it "moronic" to fire a coach that has not only lost to the tone of 3-15 but in many cases hasn't even been competitive in games against the top tier of the MVFC. People see the name Joe Glenn and they get way to gushy about it. Glen has way too much loyalty to his own coaches and players and fans have way too much loyalty towards him. He isn't getting the job done and that is what matters. What he is doing this year should be a good indication of what life with Joe Glenn is like. Coaches are going to show their true colors by the end of their third year. It doesn't take longer than that and in most cases improvement happens much sooner, often in year 1. As I said before Glenn is not going to get any better, he is simply going to get older.

I was obviously for the firing of Meierkort but objectively he has probably done a little better than Glenn has despite having a team full of undisciplined players. At least Ed held serve at home pretty good. Does it really matter that Glenn has done things the "right way". What does that mean anyway. He may have good guys on his team but the world is full of good guys and many of them suck at football. I am not saying they suck but I would rather have an undisciplined group of winners than a team full of good guy losers. It doesn't matter because USD deserves better than the both of them.

Herbster made a very tough decision getting rid of Joey James in favor of coach Smith. Herbster has actually impressed me more than I thought I would be when he was given the full time AD job. It would be tough but Herbster should wipe the slate clean and start over next season, and no I don't think it would be like totally starting over because the right coach can start having an impact in year 1. It doesn't take several years to build up a program just the right coach to get a turnaround started rather quickly. And no Wes should not be the guy but rather the second guy out the door a long ways behind Triplett.

I think this has been a good discussion and regardless of opinion lets keep things civil in this discussion.

Man I still don't get you at all. What the heck are you thinking? You would rather have a team that wins and could give a crap less about everything else? So you would rather have kids like Jaemis Winston on your team? Or hey, how about all the good publicity we are getting from the tax fraud thing. Or trashing the locker room at UND after the game and allowing it to happen. That's all great publicity, but hey if we are winning, that's all no big deal right?

People forget that at the level we play at, it's more about preparing the players for the rest of their lives than preparing them to play football at the next level. Lower level schools legitimately care about the athletes as student-athletes, which is something that gets lost at the higher ranks. These kids know that they more than likely won't be playing football after their years at USD, which in my opinion, is why character > skill.

[Cousin Eddie]

Before the season began I stated that I needed to see 6 wins from this team to continue the belief that Glenn and Co. were continuing to succeed in building the program. I did not qualify that by stating that it had to be 6 FCS wins, so William Penn is part of this. I still believe that goal is attainable. I also stand by that mark. If we get 5 or less, in my opinion, then Glenn is probably on the hot seat next year. If we get six or more, then progress is being made and we should have business as usual.

This is my comment to the prediction of Yote 53. He was pretty accurate in this - except for UNI, so far:

usdcoyotesports.proboards.com/post/16666/thread

Going forward it is:

Oct. 18 Missouri State* Springfield, Mo.
Oct. 25 North Dakota State* Vermillion, S.D.
Nov. 1 Youngstown State* Youngstown, Ohio
Nov. 8 Western Illinois* Vermillion, S.D.
Nov. 15 Illinois State* Vermillion, S.D.
Nov. 22 South Dakota State* Brookings, S.D.

Ultimately, can we win 4 out of 6? It seems like a VERY steep task, but with our QB back, I think we have a puncher's chance in every game (except for maybe NDSU, even though it is in the Dome).

[canislatrans]

Didn't really want to post in a Fire Joe Glenn thread, but have to admit there has been good discussion from all sides on the issue.

I think Joe Glenn was the right hire, at the time, and currently. I also think that he should be given the appropriate amount of time to build his program, which in my view is 3-5 years, otherwise he is being evaluated on a partial roster, given the red-shirting process.

Agree with Cuzin Ed, with Earl back, we have a puncher's chance in every game (NDSU will take 60 mins. of top notch Coyote Football).

It all comes down to Wins and Losses, I'm not making excuses for Glenn, but I do believe we will be able to clearly see Glenn's team next year and the year after (and this year still has potential).

[Yote 53]

Oh yeah, I've posted in this thread but never given my thoughts on the title. We'd be stupid to fire Joe. Talk about setting the program back years. It is fair, though, to point out that he may need to re-evaluate his coaching staff. I'm not real thrilled about how special teams has gone. I think that is an area to look at. I actually think Wes has done a good job this season as the OC. It's not just the OC calling the plays, the players have to execute. Sometimes that is tough to do, like against UNI who brought in a very tough front 7 on D. All the play calling in the world won't help if you can't execute.

If we want to hire better coaches I will point back at the money issue. Our athletic department either can't or won't put the appropriate level of resources needed towards football to compete for titles in the MVFC. If we want better assistants we will need to pay more money to get better assistants. If we want to attract better recruits we will need to give them the types of bells and whistles the rest of the conference (and UND) are offering in terms of facilities.

My eyes tell me Joe is getting the job done on the field. The product on the field is bigger, stronger, faster, and more athletic than it has ever been before. The rest of the conference has elevated their game too. That's why we aren't seeing the desired results on the scoreboard. In time I think we will, I'm just not sure about this season. Of course, I'm still pretty depressed from Saturday and that is clouding my judgement a bit.