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Post by mraugustana on Jan 6, 2013 14:59:48 GMT -6
Ahhh Mr. Augustana..... Everyone is entitled to an opinion. My opinion is: Although several Augie players had D1 one offers or looks it means nothing until they actually accept and ACTUALLY PLAY at that level. I watch Augie and know that those players would not be getting alot of minutes even at the mediocore USD. This includes past players. I think you are still riding on the high of playing the Gophers and "almost winning" that exhibition game. Remember that is an exhibition game, a practice for the Gophers. Even you should know that. Your direct quote "Good luck against the Jackrabbits. Even with this pleasant message board convo we're having, I still prefer to see SDSU lose over USD." Thanks for your well wishes, but your overall messages have been negative towards the Yotes, maybe its indirectly towards a certain player, at least that is the feeling I am getting. I can assure you, I couldn't care less about that Gopher game. To me, that has nothing to do with measuring how good some of our individual players are. I'm strictly looking at talent and potential, and I feel like in another 2 years, when he's a junior, Zach Huisken will be a better player than someone like Trevor Gruis. Frankly, if he had an offer from the Coyotes, the USD coaching staff must have thought so too. Nobody recruits talent hoping to "maintain" their current level or take a step back. They recruit talent that they think will help them improve their programs. I think even you can agree with that. I'm honestly not sure why you think I have been indirectly negative toward any certain player on USD's roster. This whole discussion started because I was COMPLIMENTING a USD player. If I had anything negative to say about one of your players specifically, I'd say it outright. I don't. I just don't think all of your players are as good as some of these USD fans seem to think they are. The flip side of this, obviously, is that you guys don't think Augie's players are as good as I think they are. I'm ok with that. The message boards exist for discussion. I feel like I'm backing up my arguments with at least some logic. I'm not just jumping on here and saying, "Yotes suck," and then signing off. But, to be clear, I put little to no stock into losing by 12 to a Gopher team that finished toward the middle (bottom middle?) of their conference last season and featured the legendary Ralph Sampson III as a starting big man (is it ok for me to take a shot at him, or is that unfair too?).
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Post by #1CoyoteFan (Admin) on Jan 6, 2013 15:03:25 GMT -6
Wait, Wait, Tulane has an athletic program? I think that is newsworthy right there Mr. Augie. Did Augie even have the players to compete with SDSU during the D-2 days? You can keep the Schillings of the world, we will go with the Flack's and Casey K's of the world, thank you.
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Post by mraugustana on Jan 6, 2013 15:15:44 GMT -6
Wait, Wait, Tulane has an athletic program? I think that is newsworthy right there Mr. Augie. Did Augie even have the players to compete with SDSU during the D-2 days? You can keep the Schillings of the world, we will go with the Flack's and Casey K's of the world, thank you. Out of curiosity, who else offered Flack and Kasperbauer? I looked online and only saw that USD had offered them, but it could just be that I didn't look in the right places. Just curious as to whether or not they had any other offers or if USD was just so perfect that they had no interest in going anywhere else. Regardless, I was just saying that some of our guys had several D1 offers. They weren't just high school bench warmers who got lucky with a scholarship at Augie. Wasn't trying to say Tulane was going to win a National Championship tomorrow. Glad that was basically the only point you got out of my entire post. I got to Augie in the mid-2000s, so I don't know a ton about their competition with SDSU, but I'm not 100% sure how that pertains to the discussion at hand. Either way, that's fine if you think Kasperbauer is better for you guys than a Schilling would be. I'm not trying to compare the two rosters. Overall, USD SHOULD have more talent than Augie. They've been building a D1 program for several years now. It'd be incredibly depressing for the Coyotes if they didn't have more overall talent than Augie. I'm just saying no single player on USD's roster would suddenly become the all-time greatest player in Augustana history, which seems to be what several people on here think. Am I not making myself clear on that? I feel like I keep repeating myself, but to no avail.
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chuck
Sophomore Member
Posts: 169
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Post by chuck on Jan 6, 2013 16:19:45 GMT -6
Mr. Augie, this has been fun but please stop. What do you expect when you go on a USD board and proclaim that most of our players would fit right in at a D2 school? Then you continue to argue a pure hypothetical point. Trevor Gruis is never suiting up for Augie and no Augie guys are transferring to USD/D1, so this really can't be settled on a fan message board. I like Augie and I respect D2 basketball, but enough is enough. Let's make it simple:
There is a clear food chain in college basketball:
NAIA<D2<Low Major D1<Mid Major D1<High Major D1
Within this food chain: 1) Coaches are generally more accomplished. Recruiting determines if they get to keep their job or not, so they rarely offer players that would fit better within a lower level on the food chain. 2) The LARGE LARGE majority of players accept offers at the highest level of the food chain that they are offered. In particular, I am confident that the following conversation RARELY happens: Summit League Coach:"How would you like to play for our university?" We get pretty good media exposure and play a few Big 10/12 etc games a year. Did I mention that during your four years here you will have a decent shot at playing in MARCH MADNESS." 18-year-old high school student: "No thanks, I'm sticking with the NSIC"
In summary, know your food chain and where you are posting. I am seriously considering going on the Iowa Hawkeye fan site and letting them know that their players wouldn't help USD that much. But-Adam Woodbury is a nice player so congrats on that. What type of reaction do you think I'd get? Or should I go on the Augie board to let everyone know there that most of their players would fit right in at my school, SF Washington? However, you should be excited about Augie player X.
OK, I like Augie. Obviously, you do too. All fans tend to overrate their team--I do it myself. Please stop doing it on a USD board and claiming it is logical. Let's stay friends.
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Post by mraugustana on Jan 6, 2013 16:40:37 GMT -6
Mr. Augie, this has been fun but please stop. What do you expect when you go on a USD board and proclaim that most of our players would fit right in at a D2 school? Then you continue to argue a pure hypothetical point. Trevor Gruis is never suiting up for Augie and no Augie guys are transferring to USD/D1, so this really can't be settled on a fan message board. I like Augie and I respect D2 basketball, but enough is enough. Let's make it simple: There is a clear food chain in college basketball: NAIA<D2<Low Major D1<Mid Major D1<High Major D1 Within this food chain: 1) Coaches are generally more accomplished. Recruiting determines if they get to keep their job or not, so they rarely offer players that would fit better within a lower level on the food chain. 2) The LARGE LARGE majority of players accept offers at the highest level of the food chain that they are offered. In particular, I am confident that the following conversation RARELY happens: Summit League Coach:"How would you like to play for our university?" We get pretty good media exposure and play a few Big 10/12 etc games a year. In addition, we are eligible to play in MARCH MADNESS." 18-year-old high school student: "No thanks, I'm sticking with the NSIC" In summary, know your food chain and where you are posting. I am seriously considering going on the Iowa Hawkeye fan site and letting them know that their players wouldn't help USD that much. But-Adam Woodbury is a nice player so congrats on that. What type of reaction do you think I'd get? Or should I go on the Augie board to let everyone know there that most of their players would fit right in at my school, SF Washington? However, you should be excited about Augie player X. OK, I like Augie. Obviously, you do too. All fans tend to overrate their team--I do it myself. Please stop doing it on a USD board and claiming it is logical. Let's stay friends. I actually dont disagree with the point you're making, but simply saying "it's a food chain, end of story" is an extremely limiting argument. Which is fine, I guess. I at least appreciate you recognizing the point I was trying to make. As to your final point, I'm guessing you were trying to make a point humorously, but in case you werent, I'd say the jump between D2 basketball and high school basketball is drastically different compared to the jump between low-major D1 basketball and D2 basketball. Obviously if you even sort of follow basketball, you're aware of that. Like I said, I'm assuming you were simply joking on that one. I must think more highly of our level than you guys do, so it's pretty obvious my side of the argument isn't going to gain much traction. Either way, I at least appreciate the level-headed response. I'll go ahead and keep my discussions over on our clearly lower-level D2 message board and let you guys get back to the intense action taking place on here every few days without a dissenting opinion such as mine.
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chuck
Sophomore Member
Posts: 169
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Post by chuck on Jan 6, 2013 17:06:26 GMT -6
Fair enough. I would encourage you to continue to overrate your team, I plan to continue to do the same with mine. :-)
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Post by mraugustana on Jan 6, 2013 17:16:46 GMT -6
Fair enough. I would encourage you to continue to overrate your team, I plan to continue to do the same with mine. :-) Well played. We're a team loaded with young guys (we start 3 true freshmen and a true sophomore, and our two non-starting freshmen get substantial minutes as well), so I'll do more overrating in another 2 years when we're substantially better than we are this season. Hopefully, at least.
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Post by #1CoyoteFan (Admin) on Jan 6, 2013 17:35:05 GMT -6
Fair enough. I would encourage you to continue to overrate your team, I plan to continue to do the same with mine. :-) Well played. We're a team loaded with young guys (we start 3 true freshmen and a true sophomore, and our two non-starting freshmen get substantial minutes as well), so I'll do more overrating in another 2 years when we're substantially better than we are this season. Hopefully, at least. Basically two of the clear cut people that are at a level they shouldn't be at in the area are - Nate Wolters, offered by SDSU and St. Cloud State. By Mr. Augustana's point, since he was only offered by SDSU on the D-I level, he is barely a D-I one player and would only work at at D-II level since D-Is weren't lining up at his door. Deb Remerde or however it is spelled, who played women's basketball at Northwestern but started at Iowa by got homesick after an injury plagued year and went back. Besides that, 99 percent of the time, players end up on the level they are suppose to. I don't care where the USD kids had offers from, but Boots knows D-I talent, which is why he didn't offer the kids at Augustana a scholarship like the Schillings or McCaffery, who I think is a pretty good player, but could he be as dynamic at the next level? Eh, maybe, if that.
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Post by wileycoyote on Jan 6, 2013 17:44:17 GMT -6
Quoted from #1 Coyote Fan "I don't care where the USD kids had offers from, but Boots knows D-I talent, which is why he didn't offer the kids at Augustana a scholarship like the Schillings or McCaffery, who I think is a pretty good player, but could he be as dynamic at the next level? Eh, maybe, if that".
I agree #1 Coyote Fan!
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Post by #1CoyoteFan (Admin) on Jan 6, 2013 18:03:17 GMT -6
Wait, Wait, Tulane has an athletic program? I think that is newsworthy right there Mr. Augie. Did Augie even have the players to compete with SDSU during the D-2 days? You can keep the Schillings of the world, we will go with the Flack's and Casey K's of the world, thank you. Out of curiosity, who else offered Flack and Kasperbauer? I looked online and only saw that USD had offered them, but it could just be that I didn't look in the right places. Just curious as to whether or not they had any other offers or if USD was just so perfect that they had no interest in going anywhere else. Regardless, I was just saying that some of our guys had several D1 offers. They weren't just high school bench warmers who got lucky with a scholarship at Augie. Wasn't trying to say Tulane was going to win a National Championship tomorrow. Glad that was basically the only point you got out of my entire post. I got to Augie in the mid-2000s, so I don't know a ton about their competition with SDSU, but I'm not 100% sure how that pertains to the discussion at hand. Either way, that's fine if you think Kasperbauer is better for you guys than a Schilling would be. I'm not trying to compare the two rosters. Overall, USD SHOULD have more talent than Augie. They've been building a D1 program for several years now. It'd be incredibly depressing for the Coyotes if they didn't have more overall talent than Augie. I'm just saying no single player on USD's roster would suddenly become the all-time greatest player in Augustana history, which seems to be what several people on here think. Am I not making myself clear on that? I feel like I keep repeating myself, but to no avail. Took me about not even a minute to find out where Flack was offered and about 2 minutes to find out about Kasperbauer. Tyler Flack rivals.yahoo.com/basketballrecruiting/basketball/recruiting/player-Tyler-Flack-130477Two other D-I schools offered him as well. Kasperbauer had offers from SDSU, Evansdale and Nevada. www.omaha.com/article/20110921/PREPZONE/709219744It's called Google.
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Post by mraugustana on Jan 6, 2013 18:05:54 GMT -6
Well played. We're a team loaded with young guys (we start 3 true freshmen and a true sophomore, and our two non-starting freshmen get substantial minutes as well), so I'll do more overrating in another 2 years when we're substantially better than we are this season. Hopefully, at least. Basically two of the clear cut people that are at a level they shouldn't be at in the area are - Nate Wolters, offered by SDSU and St. Cloud State. By Mr. Augustana's point, since he was only offered by SDSU on the D-I level, he is barely a D-I one player and would only work at at D-II level since D-Is weren't lining up at his door. Deb Remerde or however it is spelled, who played women's basketball at Northwestern but started at Iowa by got homesick after an injury plagued year and went back. Besides that, 99 percent of the time, players end up on the level they are suppose to. I don't care where the USD kids had offers from, but Boots knows D-I talent, which is why he didn't offer the kids at Augustana a scholarship like the Schillings or McCaffery, who I think is a pretty good player, but could he be as dynamic at the next level? Eh, maybe, if that. Just to clarify, Wolters' final choices were Augie and SDSU. He actually said that himself in a big ESPN article last year. Which actually supports the point I was trying to make in the first place. I wasn't saying that those guys shouldn't be playing at USD. I'm saying that, if the talent level is close enough that Wolters' final two choices were the ONE D1 school that offered him and a reasonably solid D2 program, clearly the talent disparity can't be that drastic. And you may have missed my other point (and maybe I read wrong online, but I don't believe I did), but USD DID offer Augie freshman Zach Huisken. As in, didn't just "show interest," but offered. And so did SDSU. So Boots clearly saw some talent there, unless he just felt like wasting a scholarship on a kid who would never play for him. To once again repeat myself, it's not that I think no USD players would be good at Augie. It's that I don't think every player on USD's roster would be incredible at Augie just because they are D1 players and Augie is at the D2 level. Not trying to aimlessly drag out this argument. Just defending my perspective (and having fun talking about it with you guys).
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Post by mraugustana on Jan 6, 2013 18:13:23 GMT -6
Ah yes. I completely forgot about those, but I had seen them before when I was searching. To be clear, I got mocked for mentioning Tulane, but you'll come out guns blazing with Bowling Green, Evansdale, and Wofford? Also, according to that article, "Kasperbauer had Division I offers to South Dakota and South Dakota State. Among others, he said Evansville and Nevada had shown the most interest." You do know solid offers and "showing interest" are different things, right?
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Post by #1CoyoteFan (Admin) on Jan 6, 2013 18:50:13 GMT -6
Yes, I misread it, sorry. But I guess you missed the part where Tulane won 3 conference games in the "Vaulted" Conference USA last year, including an 11-point loss to Wofford. Yes, Tulane beat Wofford this year, but Wofford got invited to a postseason tourney.
Also, Tulane got an invite to the Big East, which led to the collapse of the Big East. Tulane is so bad, that there are 7 schools that will create their own conference because they feel Tulane is that awful.
Evansville's 9 wins in the Missouri Valley is not only 6 wins better than Tulane, but I would argue at least 16 wins better than Tulane with how worse the Conf. USA is than the MV.
Also, Bowling Green was 9-7 in the MAC, a bad conference but they were able to win games. Tulane was ravished by Hurricane Katrina and many have wondered if they need to drop down to D-2 because how bad that program got hit, actually. Tulane used to be respectable, now I don't know if they are a D-I program, honestly.
In terms of Wolters, he chose SDSU which shows that he is clearly a D-I player. Augie was in it, good for them, but Wolters ended up where he belongs and there is a talent gap from D-II to D-I, no doubt, or else a lot more players would transfer if that was the case.
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Post by mraugustana on Jan 6, 2013 19:08:18 GMT -6
Yes, I misread it, sorry. But I guess you missed the part where Tulane won 3 conference games in the "Vaulted" Conference USA last year, including an 11-point loss to Wofford. Yes, Tulane beat Wofford this year, but Wofford got invited to a postseason tourney. Also, Tulane got an invite to the Big East, which led to the collapse of the Big East. Tulane is so bad, that there are 7 schools that will create their own conference because they feel Tulane is that awful. Evansville's 9 wins in the Missouri Valley is not only 6 wins better than Tulane, but I would argue at least 16 wins better than Tulane with how worse the Conf. USA is than the MV. Also, Bowling Green was 9-7 in the MAC, a bad conference but they were able to win games. Tulane was ravished by Hurricane Katrina and many have wondered if they need to drop down to D-2 because how bad that program got hit, actually. Tulane used to be respectable, now I don't know if they are a D-I program, honestly. In terms of Wolters, he chose SDSU which shows that he is clearly a D-I player. Augie was in it, good for them, but Wolters ended up where he belongs and there is a talent gap from D-II to D-I, no doubt, or else a lot more players would transfer if that was the case. Fair enough. You've proven that Tulane is a few losses worse than teams that offered one of your players. That's a lot of time and effort put in to barely prove a point, but that's cool. At the same time, Tulane got invited to the Big East, which isn't exactly a step below the Summit League by most people's standards. And I'm pretty sure their entire league didn't collapse because a new team was added and people were unhappy about it. I'd imagine it takes a lot more than that to destroy a major D1 conference, particularly behind the scenes. But I guess I don't know enough about it to say so with certainty. Again, never said there wasn't a talent gap. There is. You guys are D1. There should be a talent gap. My point is that no one player from your team would change Augustana basketball forever.
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Post by littleyote on Jan 6, 2013 19:32:35 GMT -6
Just out of curiosity, as I have no idea, of your top six or so players from the past six years, who had offers (not interest) from d-1 schools? I am also wondering if you think that there is any difference in the mental or personal "glory" aspect involved in the choice of going d-1 or d-2?
It appears to me that the players that are going d-2 are kids that need to be the "stud" of the program and feel they will be in "charge" somehow. While they are good players, it is more important for them to play at a level were all the attention is on them.
The players that take a chance and get the opportunity to play at the d-1 level know that they are going to be with, and against, the best players in the nation. Very few d-1 teams have only one or two "studs," but are instead, made up of several good players that are required to work together to have any chance of winning. Very little individual glory at the d-1 level. Getting your team to the "big dance" is the only glory. That brings up another thought. Do your very close (if not more) talented d-2 players play in a tourmant at the end of the year that brings in millions of dollars worth of sponsorship and national recognition to its top teams?
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