jp
Freshman Member
Posts: 71
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Post by jp on Apr 27, 2013 8:04:46 GMT -6
Anyone heard anything new regarding Oakland leaving for the Horizon League?
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Post by yoteforever on Apr 28, 2013 19:51:09 GMT -6
Oakland is a foregone conclusion that they are heading to the Horizon. The reality of the situation is that teams hate the travel situation for the three Dakota schools.
When we accepted the bid to the MVC in football, we had no choice to join any other league then the Summit. Joining the MVC for football is awesome, a great league. However, the Summit by just it's geographic foot print, you knew it was a league that was suspecable with teams jumping ship. The foot print is wide and not convenient for most schools.
You can bet that North Dakota State is going to leverage its recent success in football and other men's sports, and opt out for mid major D-1 league. They have the money, the backing, and the brand to so. They have a regional airport for quick access, in and out travel. Our friends up north in Brookings think they are joined at the hip with them, but I think they are dead wrong. So in my opinion, the Summit will lose NDSU shortly, creating another gap.
This is exactly why I felt at the time The Big Sky was the league we should have joined from an ALL SPORTS PERSPECTIVE. I still think that was he right choice, but we are now commited to a big time football conference in FCS, but not so much with the Summit. But because the Summit is who we are, we need to fixate on some suitable replacements and settle
I hope I am proven wrong.
YFE
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Post by siouxperfan on Apr 28, 2013 21:42:39 GMT -6
Oakland is a foregone conclusion that they are heading to the Horizon. The reality of the situation is that teams hate the travel situation for the three Dakota schools. When we accepted the bid to the MVC in football, we had no choice to join any other league then the Summit. Joining the MVC for football is awesome, a great league. However, the Summit by just it's geographic foot print, you knew it was a league that was suspecable with teams jumping ship. The foot print is wide and not convenient for most schools. You can bet that North Dakota State is going to leverage its recent success in football and other men's sports, and opt out for mid major D-1 league. They have the money, the backing, and the brand to so. They have a regional airport for quick access, in and out travel. Our friends up north in Brookings think they are joined at the hip with them, but I think they are dead wrong. So in my opinion, the Summit will lose NDSU shortly, creating another gap. This is exactly why I felt at the time The Big Sky was the league we should have joined from an ALL SPORTS PERSPECTIVE. I still think that was he right choice, but we are now commited to a big time football conference in FCS, but not so much with the Summit. But because the Summit is who we are, we need to fixate on some suitable replacements and settle I hope I am proven wrong. YFE Sorry, but you Yotes are in a really really bad spot. A league like the Summit should never ever drop below 12 teams because it is a bottom feeder league and its membership is at the whims of the top leagues. The Summit has no control over what happens with the Big East, but will always feel the brunt of the domino effect. It's not like the Summit hasn't been nearly wiped out before, but this time the WAC beat you to the schools that were necessary to survive. Only NJIT is left and they may yet get in the NEC. It's too late to add DII's now, as schools like Washburn, St Cloud, Mankato, Grand Valley, Wayne St, or even Augustana could have given the Summit a lifeline if they were added before. SDSU and USD didn't want Augustana or likely any of the others. The others wanted at least an option to keep scholarship football, but the Summit football schools (looking at NDSU, SDSU, and W Ill) wouldn't consider them as they didn't want to give up MVFC football. The fundamental issue with the Summit is that it didn't have football, so all the other mentioned DII's didn't have a choice of what to do with football other than dropping it like Omaha did. All of the Summit football schools were more interested in maintaining their membership in the MVFC, under the delusion that the MVC values their football affiliation, than in strengthening the Summit by bringing in football. All of NDSU, SDSU, and W Ill cared more about the MVFC than the Summit, so they only have themselves to fault for the Summit falling apart. They are the ones that effectively kept UND out of the conference by not offering football. USD buckled to pressure from Sioux Falls and SD government officials to turn down the Big Sky and ensure Sioux Falls had their treasured conference tournament, all the while when SDSU wasn't even all in on the Summit with their football. USD allowed other interests in SD and SF to dictate to it where it should go. Now you will be stuck as an independent, or at best in the WAC, but still cling to MVFC membership. The MVC has NDSU, SDSU, USD, and WIU exactly where they want them: dependent now on the MVFC but with their basketball programs neutered with no ability to recruit to the big dance. You guys were snookered by the arrogance of SD officials and dreams of big time by Sioux Falls convention and visitors bureau people. Sioux Falls won't even have a tournament in March now, except for an invitational for SDSU, USD, NDSU, and WIL. Hope it will turn out better for you, but just don't see it. The Horizon will forever have better options than any Dakota school. Always wanted UND in the Sky, and what is happening just illustrates why. BTW, highly doubt NDSU will be able to sell its FCS success to an FBS league. The MAC, CUSA, and Sun Belt have plenty of interest and have no interest in Dakota demographics. NDSU and SDSU will be partners with you for the forseeable future. |
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Post by Yote 53 on Apr 29, 2013 8:00:47 GMT -6
Well, I would say that USD, SDSU, NDSU, UNO and WIU are a good base to build a conference on. Now, if we just bring UND back into the fold (the Big Sky doesn't really want you, UND is such an outlier) we'd really have the core of a good conference put together. Of course we'd need to get you a football home. Personally, I say the Summit/MVFC schools should be raising a huge stink within the MVFC about bringing UND in. I honestly don't care what Youngstown thinks, they have other options. Or imagine if UNO brought back football. We could tear the MVFC in two and start dictating terms to those schools instead of the other way around.
I think it's time for USD, SDSU, NDSU, and WIU to band together and start moving some weight around inside the MVFC to make some changes for the survival of the Summit.
Also wanted to add that, yes YFE, I agree with you. I was a big proponent of the Big Sky and knew that all these conference issues would happen if we went with the Summit. At the time I was very vocal about the stability of the BSC over the Summit.
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Post by siouxperfan on Apr 29, 2013 8:33:41 GMT -6
Well, I would say that USD, SDSU, NDSU, UNO and WIU are a good base to build a conference on. Now, if we just bring UND back into the fold (the Big Sky doesn't really want you, UND is such an outlier) we'd really have the core of a good conference put together. Of course we'd need to get you a football home. Personally, I say the Summit/MVFC schools should be raising a huge stink within the MVFC about bringing UND in. I honestly don't care what Youngstown thinks, they have other options. Or imagine if UNO brought back football. We could tear the MVFC in two and start dictating terms to those schools instead of the other way around. I think it's time for USD, SDSU, NDSU, and WIU to band together and start moving some weight around inside the MVFC to make some changes for the survival of the Summit. Also wanted to add that, yes YFE, I agree with you. I was a big proponent of the Big Sky and knew that all these conference issues would happen if we went with the Summit. At the time I was very vocal about the stability of the BSC over the Summit. UND isn't going to move, as the present situation with the Summit just goes to show how tenuous its situation is. The Big Sky is no longer under any risk: the WAC is a weaker conference that the BSC now, and the MWC really has no interest in BSC teams. Meanwhile, the new Big East could well add more teams next year from the A10 (St Louis and Dayton) which may lead to the A10 taking two more from the Horizon and the MVC could add two more from the Horizon to get to 12 too. That would be four more gone from the Horizon, which will almost force it to add IPFW and IUPUI just to survive. If the Summit isn't done this year, it will be next. Not sure why the Summit Dakota media hasn't figured that out yet: guess journalists are just really horrible at math, plus the AD's at NDSU, SDSU, and USD just don't want to terrify their fan base yet. "Just stay calm, being an independent won't be that bad." The Summit has to take football in-house now and get E Ill and DII call ups. What's probably been happening is that Oakland has been blocking Wayne St, and Grand Valley St won't move without Wayne St. IUPUI, IPFW, and Omaha probably don't want football in the league, and NDSU, SDSU, and W Ill don't want to separate from the MVFC. E Illinois isn't going to move into that kind of crappy environment. The Summit is really a pitiful collection of schools that are so concerned about their own little feudal interests, that they really don't care about the conference as a whole. It needs a commissioner who can get the Presidents on one page with a real vision, but simply doesn't have that in Douple. Would also say that NDSU, SDSU, USD, and UNO are a horrible core to a DI conference. Nobody from east of the Mississippi or south of Nebraska wants to be in a conference where the core group represents a population of 2.5 million. The demographics of any conference with those schools united together are just horrible from a revenue and publicity standpoint. The Big Sky footprint is over ten times that (excluding California as a state). |
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jackjd
Senior Member
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Post by jackjd on Apr 29, 2013 9:20:29 GMT -6
Another example that make me wonder if UND offers classes in something called linguistic alchemy: start with opinion based on ill-will for anything involving NDSU; throw in speculation and jealousy and a strong amount of 'hoping to be able to say I told you so' and, voila: manufactured "facts" that now support the starting opinion.
UND is a fine university but they have their share of odd folks who claim to be supporters.
Discussion about the future of any mid-major league seems an appropriate topic for message boards. But when some UND supporters shows up, it's not going to be a discussion but a statement of wishful thinking.
Reminds me a little about NDSU's infamous fan who has been banned on more message boards than I know to exist.
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Post by Yote 53 on Apr 29, 2013 10:11:38 GMT -6
I was reading siouxperfan's post with an open mind until this statement:
Would also say that NDSU, SDSU, USD, and UNO are a horrible core to a DI conference.
Then thought to myself "Then what does that make UND?" A school from a small population state, not located near any metro population, and might as well be in Canada.
Back to the topic, I would hope the administators at the 3 Dakota universities are working on a solution to this never-ending problem.
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Post by siouxperfan on Apr 29, 2013 12:04:30 GMT -6
I was reading siouxperfan's post with an open mind until this statement: Would also say that NDSU, SDSU, USD, and UNO are a horrible core to a DI conference.Then thought to myself "Then what does that make UND?" A school from a small population state, not located near any metro population, and might as well be in Canada. Back to the topic, I would hope the administators at the 3 Dakota universities are working on a solution to this never-ending problem. So where did I say UND is the core of the Big Sky? You are imagining things. NDSU, SDSU, USD, and UNO are a wonderful core to a DII conference where travel is a major issue for cost containment, but a horrible core for a DI conference as the market for that core is so small. Ask yourself, why did UMKC want out of the Summit League? Then ask, why did Oral Roberts want out of the Summit League? Then ask, why did Oakland want out of the Summit League? A Summit League of NDSU, SDSU, USD, and Omaha together offer less than each of those school's metro areas, more or less. Those schools aspire to more publicity, otherwise they might as well be DII. UND covers the same cable distribution as SDSU and USD. If a conference wants to have Dakota coverage, it only needs one of the four Dakota schools, not all four. Until that is understood by USD, SDSU, and NDSU fans, you really can't comprehend what the conference shuffling game is all about. Conferences don't like duplicate markets unless they are forced into that situation. The Summit League absolutely sucks in sex appeal because it duplicates a small market three ways. None of UMKC, ORU, or Oakland see any purpose wasting their athletic efforts advertising on the "Summit Channel" - which is a about the only DI conference that really doesn't have a "channel" (i.e. conference television package) to be begin with. UND brings in nearly 1.5 million viewers into Big Sky TV range. NDSU, SDSU, USD, together, bring in the same for the Summit League. It's a really simple mathematical concept. |
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Post by siouxperfan on Apr 29, 2013 12:07:54 GMT -6
Another example that make me wonder if UND offers classes in something called linguistic alchemy: start with opinion based on ill-will for anything involving NDSU; throw in speculation and jealousy and a strong amount of 'hoping to be able to say I told you so' and, voila: manufactured "facts" that now support the starting opinion. UND is a fine university but they have their share of odd folks who claim to be supporters. Discussion about the future of any mid-major league seems an appropriate topic for message boards. But when some UND supporters shows up, it's not going to be a discussion but a statement of wishful thinking. Reminds me a little about NDSU's infamous fan who has been banned on more message boards than I know to exist. The problem with this Jack fan is that he can't comprehend the facts of DI life: markets matter. Even the NDSU fans are understanding that: Fargo-Moorhead metro isn't going to buy them any membership in a higher level conference. NDSU will understand prior to SDSU that an NDSU/SDSU partnership simply isn't going to work to get to the FBS level: NDSU will have to market itself as the only team in the Dakotas to get an invite to that level. The only wishful thinking going on is a Jack fan thinking that things will stay perfectly the way they are: a Dakota-centric Summit existing with a tournament in Sioux Falls. Invite Augustana, Black Hills St, SD School of Mines, Mary, and Minot St, and continue on with your dream existence. School outside of the Dakotas want nothing to do with the Summit League except as a DI stepping stone for new DI schools or as a weigh station waiting for something better (Denver). Don't let Jack fans sugarcoat how "great" things art. The Summit League is in dire straights unless some real leadership is shown soon. |
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jackjd
Senior Member
Posts: 656
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Post by jackjd on Apr 29, 2013 12:37:55 GMT -6
I was reading siouxperfan's post with an open mind until this statement: Would also say that NDSU, SDSU, USD, and UNO are a horrible core to a DI conference.Then thought to myself "Then what does that make UND?" A school from a small population state, not located near any metro population, and might as well be in Canada. Back to the topic, I would hope the administators at the 3 Dakota universities are working on a solution to this never-ending problem. ^^^^^this. |
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Post by siouxperfan on Apr 29, 2013 12:41:36 GMT -6
I was reading siouxperfan's post with an open mind until this statement: Would also say that NDSU, SDSU, USD, and UNO are a horrible core to a DI conference.Then thought to myself "Then what does that make UND?" A school from a small population state, not located near any metro population, and might as well be in Canada. Back to the topic, I would hope the administators at the 3 Dakota universities are working on a solution to this never-ending problem. ^^^^^this. So, all knowing Jack fan. What should the Summit League do to survive? I'd love to hear it without all the sugarcoating that you are so prone to, or do you still have your head stuck in the sand and pretending its not an issue? |
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jackjd
Senior Member
Posts: 656
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Post by jackjd on Apr 29, 2013 12:42:02 GMT -6
Another example that make me wonder if UND offers classes in something called linguistic alchemy: start with opinion based on ill-will for anything involving NDSU; throw in speculation and jealousy and a strong amount of 'hoping to be able to say I told you so' and, voila: manufactured "facts" that now support the starting opinion.... ...Invite Augustana, Black Hills St, SD School of Mines, Mary, and Minot St, and continue on with your dream existence... Don't let Jack fans sugarcoat how "great" things art. The Summit League is in dire straights unless some real leadership is shown soon. Oh yeah, I almost forgot that part of the recipe is a large portion of hostility. |
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Post by siouxperfan on Apr 29, 2013 12:44:48 GMT -6
...Invite Augustana, Black Hills St, SD School of Mines, Mary, and Minot St, and continue on with your dream existence... Don't let Jack fans sugarcoat how "great" things art. The Summit League is in dire straights unless some real leadership is shown soon. Oh yeah, I almost forgot that part of the recipe is a large portion of hostility. Answer some questions for once. If I'm so hostile, prove that I am wrong instead of your normal tactic of shooting the messenger. |
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jackjd
Senior Member
Posts: 656
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Post by jackjd on Apr 29, 2013 12:46:11 GMT -6
So, all knowing Jack fan. What should the Summit League do to survive? I'd love to hear it without all the sugarcoating that you are so prone to, or do you still have your head stuck in the sand and pretending its not an issue? You prove my point about how you arrive at facts. You make a number of assertions and now others have the burden of proving you wrong? My apologies to this board's moderators...I'll pass on further responses to the UND poster. |
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Post by siouxperfan on Apr 29, 2013 12:49:23 GMT -6
So, all knowing Jack fan. What should the Summit League do to survive? I'd love to hear it without all the sugarcoating that you are so prone to, or do you still have your head stuck in the sand and pretending its not an issue? You prove my point about how you arrive at facts. You make a number of assertions and now others have the burden of proving you wrong? My apologies to this board's moderators...I'll pass on further responses to the UND poster. So you have no idea who the Summit League can possibly add, but just keep pretending that everything is fine. So you are saying that the losses of ORU, UMKC, and Oakland are not facts? Wow, denying that this is not a crisis does not make a crisis go away. I've actually laid out a plan of action to help the Summit League to survive, but you refused to even address it (add football as a Summit sport, than add E Ill, Grand Valley St, and Wayne St). |
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