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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2013 14:28:23 GMT -6
You prove my point about how you arrive at facts. You make a number of assertions and now others have the burden of proving you wrong? My apologies to this board's moderators...I'll pass on further responses to the UND poster. So you have no idea who the Summit League can possibly add, but just keep pretending that everything is fine. So you are saying that the losses of ORU, UMKC, and Oakland are not facts? Wow, denying that this is not a crisis does not make a crisis go away. I've actually laid out a plan of action to help the Summit League to survive, but you refused to even address it (add football as a Summit sport, than add E Ill, Grand Valley St, and Wayne St). Wayne St in Nebraska? That should help lower the USD travel costs. ;D
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Post by Yote 53 on Apr 29, 2013 14:40:15 GMT -6
We have nothing to worry about. Using siouxperfan's thought process Oakland isn't going anywhere. Why would the Horizon offer them when they already have that market "covered" with Detriot Mercy? It would be redundant to have Oakland in the Horizon for that reason.
I am also anxiously awaiting Michigan State's expulsion from the Big Ten. Michigan already covers that market. Redundant. I don't know what they'll do about Indiana but it's not looking very good for Purdue at this point. Does Illinois garner more household TV sets or Illinois? Hmmm.
NC, NCState. Auburn, Alabama. Arizona, Arizona State. The list goes on and on, but you get my point.
The FACTS are there are only so many state flagship institutions to go around. USD, SDSU, UND, and NDSU are state flagship institutions. To college presidents (the decision makers) that matters. It's about who you roll with in your neighborhood. No offense to Omaha, IUPUI, IPFW, Oakland, etc, etc but you will never...ever be the top school in your state, or even in your own city. Give it a few years and those schools will be thanking their lucky stars to be in the same conference as us.
Truth be told, as the Dakota programs continue to grow, and grow they will, we'll probably be talking to Mo State, Illinois St, Indiana St, UNI, and a few others about creating a midwest based Big Ten lite. I can actually see something like that happening.
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Post by GoYotes on Apr 29, 2013 16:28:25 GMT -6
NoNameperfan assertion about the desirability of covering the metro markets makes sense for the BCS conferences in today's world, but I don't believe it has minimal effect on mid and low majors. It also ignores the fact that the whole delivery process of TV sports programming is undergoing huge changes. Today's world of forcing cable/satelite subscribers to pick from 2 to 4 packages will soon be a thing of the past. More and more subscribers are dropping cable/satelite and instead using combinations of HULU, Apple TV, ESPN3, MLB, NBA, Netflix, etc to provide their programming. This is giving subscribers the ability to only pay for the viewing options they want rather than having to pay for programming they never watch.
Reading comments on other message boards (and thank God, that posters on message boards are not the decision makers for the teams they support), most view the Dakota's as geographically isolated. I have always maintained that the 4 Dakota's provide a great core for a conference and still believe within the next 5 years all 4 will be.
The fact that Denver recently joined the Summit League is a good sign. They would not have joined if they had serious doubts about the future of the conference. I would like to see the Summit League and MVFC add both UND and UNC. A Summit League of the 4 Dakotas, UNC, Denver, Omaha & Western Illinois would provide a good core. I still think at some point in time the 2 Indiana schools will have better geographic options and will leave the Summit. A 12 team MVFC would allow for 2 - 6 team divisions and would provide more scheduling options.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2013 16:56:54 GMT -6
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jackjd
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Post by jackjd on Apr 29, 2013 17:05:16 GMT -6
If that report is confirmed, I'll be disappointed but the story has been repeated enough that I won't be shocked.
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Post by siouxperfan on Apr 29, 2013 17:14:02 GMT -6
We have nothing to worry about. Using siouxperfan's thought process Oakland isn't going anywhere. Why would the Horizon offer them when they already have that market "covered" with Detriot Mercy? It would be redundant to have Oakland in the Horizon for that reason. Oakland is simply the best prospect right now, even with Detroit Mercy having done everything in their power to block them. Detroit Mercy is planning to escape to the Atlantic 10 anyway, probably next year, so the Horizon needs to have the Detroit market covered. Ole Miss, Miss St, Wash St, Iowa St, Kansas St, Baylor, Vanderbilt, Wake Forest would never be in a power conference right now if those alignments were chosen by TV execs. Yeah, like URI, Umass, UNH, Maine, UVt, UDel had all kinds of power conferences tripping all over them to get them aboard. So why didn't the MVC even sniff SDSU's jock strap this time? They simply have no interest in a low population state that has fewer people than Omaha metro.
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Post by siouxperfan on Apr 29, 2013 17:22:45 GMT -6
NoNameperfan assertion about covering the desirability of covering the metro markets makes sense for the BCS conferences in today's world, but I don't believe it has minimal effect on mid and low majors. It also ignores the fact that the whole delivery process of TV sports programming is undergoing huge changes. Today's world of forcing cable/satelite subscribers to pick from 2 to 4 packages will soon be a thing of the past. More and more subscribers are dropping cable/satelite and instead using combinations of HULU, Apple TV, ESPN3, MLB, NBA, Netflix, etc to provide their programming. This is giving subscribers the ability to only pay for the viewing options they want rather than having to pay for programming they never watch. What your saying will have an affect, but not yet. When that happens, the metrics of how many fans are watching on line will be what's important. When either USD or SDSU get above any MVC school's numbers, then you can crow about it. Right now, USD and SDSU don't even have 100,000 living grads. Denver hated the thought of associating with schools like GCU, Chicago St, UTPA, and UVU. They simply saw the Summit as a better academic option (which it is), but have no intention to sticking around. They didn't even celebrate their acceptance into the Summit, but rather tried to hide it so their alumni would not be so upset. Denver fans really don't like associating with UND, but grudgingly do because we both need each other in hockey.
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Post by GoYotes on Apr 29, 2013 17:25:12 GMT -6
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Post by #1CoyoteFan (Admin) on Apr 29, 2013 18:04:05 GMT -6
Siouxcrapyourpants, you ask why the MVC didn't look at SDSU? That's a very valid question. Because they wanted to be laughed at by all of their fans.
I live 20 minutes from Cedar Falls and they are laughing at Loyola Chicago and all of the schools considered, like UMKC. They would've rather had an SDSU or NDSU. They say it's a joke what the MVC is doing, they just wanted to replace a Jesuit school with a Jesuit school, which makes sense actually.
But Loyola-Chicago is basically a blah school.
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Post by Yote 53 on Apr 30, 2013 12:54:49 GMT -6
...and if the Valley continues to make blunders like Loyola Chicago (I've heard they might go all in for Chicago and go UIC and one other) that only strengthens my position that those state schools I mentioned could look to form a Big Ten lite.
As for Denver, it's a good academic school from everything I've gathered. Of course it would rather associate with a group of state flagship institutions than WAC rejects which proves what I am saying. The Dakotas have that going for them.
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Post by siouxperfan on Apr 30, 2013 16:30:19 GMT -6
Siouxcrapyourpants, you ask why the MVC didn't look at SDSU? That's a very valid question. Because they wanted to be laughed at by all of their fans. I live 20 minutes from Cedar Falls and they are laughing at Loyola Chicago and all of the schools considered, like UMKC. They would've rather had an SDSU or NDSU. They say it's a joke what the MVC is doing, they just wanted to replace a Jesuit school with a Jesuit school, which makes sense actually. But Loyola-Chicago is basically a blah school. The MVC didn't look at SDSU, USD, or NDSU because they have a TV contract with ESPN, and ESPN demanded a Chicago school. ESPN calls more of the shots than the MVC Presidents do. The better fit of the Chicago schools was UIC with their higher enrollment, good endowment, basketball arena, and new baseball field courtesy of Curtis Granderson, but the private school block in the MVC forced Loyola onto the public schools (as fellow private Creighton was the one leaving). The private schools in the MVC simply don't want to lose their numbers as a matter of protection. As far as the name calling, give it a break. If you don't want me to post the truth that you certainly shouldn't like but really need to know, just ban me. But if and when the worst happens, this board better not be bitching up a storm. I'm not going to pretend to shove the bad news under a rug like ignorant SDSU, as I'm actually aware am not in denial that the Summit League has already entered into a grace period for its very existence. Douple has no plan, and the two other schools that considered the Summit in years past, Northern Kentucky and SIU-Edwardsville, rejected Douple's offer in favor of the Atlantic Sun and OVC. The two schools Douple has got aboard (DU and UNO) made institutional choices, and weren't won over by Douple or Summit Presidents. Unless the Summit sponsors football (and USD, SDSU, NDSU, and W Ill withdraw from the MVFC), the Summit has no options.
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Post by siouxperfan on Apr 30, 2013 16:36:05 GMT -6
...and if the Valley continues to make blunders like Loyola Chicago (I've heard they might go all in for Chicago and go UIC and one other) that only strengthens my position that those state schools I mentioned could look to form a Big Ten lite. As for Denver, it's a good academic school from everything I've gathered. Of course it would rather associate with a group of state flagship institutions than WAC rejects which proves what I am saying. The Dakotas have that going for them. Loyola will bring in more money to MVC coffers than any other school but Wichita. MVC private schools have no desire to increase the exposure of the MVFC, as FCS is a cash drain to begin with. Financially, you really need to get educated on college athletic. Denver will be gone in a second to the first offer from the Big West, WCC, or MVC. Denver left the WAC because it viewed the addition of Grand Canyon (for profit school) as being a crack house in the neighborhood in a formerly elite neighborhood. It's temporarily renting a place in a lower-middle class neighborhood called the Summit League - which has very nice but rather unworldly people.
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Post by siouxperfan on Apr 30, 2013 16:43:09 GMT -6
So what two baseball schools is the Summit going to bring in to keep all their autobid? The Summit is at four baseball teams right now (NDSU, SDSU, WIll, IPFW, as UNO doesn't count for two years). Douple already has used up one year of the grace period, with only one more to go. If the Summit League doesn't have two more by next year, the NCAA by rule will strip all autobids from the Summit and no longer recognize the Summit League as a voting conference. The Horizon League was short a baseball team too after Butler left, so that is why they had to have a school with a baseball team for next year: Oakland. Douple could have brought in UND and UNC for baseball only (which would have satisfied the NCAA requirements), but both of them accepted baseball offers from the WAC. It's as if both UND and UNC want to destroy Douple and the Summit League, which is the furthest thing from wanting to join the Summit League.
With UNO still in transition for two more years, the Summit League is at 7 teams, the bare minimum for full membership. Every team in the league has to be looking for other options, whether they state that publicly or not, as the Summit League is in a horribly precarious situation there too. What full member will Douple get to bring at least some breathing room? (DII teams aren't acceptable answers, as they won't count for four years.)
You have to be able to answer these questions, otherwise you're just sticking your heads in the sand just like the SDSU fans.
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Post by #1CoyoteFan (Admin) on May 1, 2013 15:59:24 GMT -6
So what two baseball schools is the Summit going to bring in to keep all their autobid? The Summit is at four baseball teams right now (NDSU, SDSU, WIll, IPFW, as UNO doesn't count for two years). Douple already has used up one year of the grace period, with only one more to go. If the Summit League doesn't have two more by next year, the NCAA by rule will strip all autobids from the Summit and no longer recognize the Summit League as a voting conference. The Horizon League was short a baseball team too after Butler left, so that is why they had to have a school with a baseball team for next year: Oakland. Douple could have brought in UND and UNC for baseball only (which would have satisfied the NCAA requirements), but both of them accepted baseball offers from the WAC. It's as if both UND and UNC want to destroy Douple and the Summit League, which is the furthest thing from wanting to join the Summit League. With UNO still in transition for two more years, the Summit League is at 7 teams, the bare minimum for full membership. Every team in the league has to be looking for other options, whether they state that publicly or not, as the Summit League is in a horribly precarious situation there too. What full member will Douple get to bring at least some breathing room? (DII teams aren't acceptable answers, as they won't count for four years.) You have to be able to answer these questions, otherwise you're just sticking your heads in the sand just like the SDSU fans. Or like North Dakota did during the ENTIRE NICKNAME DEBATE THAT WENT ON FOR A DECADE. It's hard to listen to Sioux fans at all about anything when they can barely handle any situation.
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