91jack
Sophomore Member
Posts: 162
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Post by 91jack on Aug 3, 2018 15:44:51 GMT -6
Actively pursuing schools for expansion doesn't seem to be our commissioner's forte. If there is any kind of plan or vision other than doing what Sanford tells him to do, I'd be surprised. I am not pro or anti for our commissioner but I don't know if he is terrible at adding teams. In the last 7 years, he has added UND (2018), ORU (2014, Denver (2013), Omaha (2012)and USD (2011). That is 5 schools that are all good schools in the last 7 years. I'm sure if UMKC was a good school they would be back in the league, too. The Summit just doesn't have tons of options in the midwest. How do you sell the Summit League to some of those teams from the Horizon? Do they want the extra travel and play the basketball tourney in Sioux Falls every year? I do think adding Green Bay and Milwaukee would be a homer though.
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Post by kiyoat on Aug 3, 2018 16:42:05 GMT -6
Actively pursuing schools for expansion doesn't seem to be our commissioner's forte. If there is any kind of plan or vision other than doing what Sanford tells him to do, I'd be surprised. I am not pro or anti for our commissioner but I don't know if he is terrible at adding teams. In the last 7 years, he has added UND (2018), ORU (2014, Denver (2013), Omaha (2012)and USD (2011). That is 5 schools that are all good schools in the last 7 years. I'm sure if UMKC was a good school they would be back in the league, too. The Summit just doesn't have tons of options in the midwest. How do you sell the Summit League to some of those teams from the Horizon? Do they want the extra travel and play the basketball tourney in Sioux Falls every year? I do think adding Green Bay and Milwaukee would be a homer though. I don't necessarily disagree with your statements, but if we weren't constantly hemorrhaging teams, we wouldn't have to be constantly looking (reactively), right? It seems to me that 10 teams would be a good number to shoot for, and yet we hear no urgency, no plan, no statement of vision. Weak. Going after Northern Colorado as a baseball member seems like a pretty easy or low-risk move for them, and would get us in the front door... their current league for that sport is the WAC with its awesome travel budget. But instead we hear: "If we lose Ft. Wayne, we can just add an affiliate member for baseball, so no problem..." Hey, here's an idea: How about we get ahead of it before it becomes an issue?
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Post by aldewitt on Aug 3, 2018 17:57:45 GMT -6
Kansas City wouldn’t help with baseball but they would be a good addition. Chicago State is the other obvious choice in the WAC and they do play baseball.
I think Chicago might be the WACs Augie.
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Post by kiyoat on Aug 3, 2018 19:59:44 GMT -6
I think Chicago State is more like our Western Illinois, meaning: hemorrhaging money and headed for D-2.
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Post by aldewitt on Aug 4, 2018 5:01:53 GMT -6
The only viable Horizon candidate seems to be KC. Chicago is a weak sister and the Big Sky schools are not moving. The only possibility is NoCo but they quit us once because of travel. I began to doubt Augies ability to move with This post from Yote 53 over on bisonville. insurmountable hurdle?
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Post by hokieman on Aug 4, 2018 11:49:22 GMT -6
Found an article about what schools in at least one other FSC conference spend on athletics. It talks about how new Big South member Hampton U. stacks up against its new conference mates. Definitely not an apples-to-apples comparison -- Big South vs. the Summit League. But it does offer a little perspective on how schools in other (mostly) bus-leagues pay the bills. The key figures are the $13.8 million spent by Hampton and the $45 million by Liberty. That's what lots of online students apparently allows you to do. www.dailypress.com/sports/dp-spt-hampton-big-south-finances-1123-story.html#
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Post by aldewitt on Aug 16, 2018 16:56:43 GMT -6
The Dakota schools are spending over 10 mill more per year than the MEAC schools. That’s a lot.
Things have changed a lot too. 15 yrs ago or so 4 mill was more the norm for us.
I looked at the NCAA site for expenses and revenues and the MVFC schools only lose 1-3 mill. Boiled down that’s the true cost of athletics to the school.
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Post by JWKunzman on Aug 17, 2018 9:07:55 GMT -6
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Post by aldewitt on Aug 18, 2018 13:44:13 GMT -6
That was an interesting interview with the announcer saying Augi D1 was pretty much a done deal! Lots of confidence in the Augi D1 move, almost taken for granted when they were speculating Augi was going to the Pioneer League. They kept mentioning the confidence everyone had that Sioux Falls market could support them.
I'm not sure who the Augi spokeswomen was but she said it was premature to be talking to the Summit league. I guess the Summit and the Pioneer are waiting for some kind of assurances the doubts we all had are being addressed satisfactorily.
2020 Summit League entrance for Augi or could they make it for next season? Sooner the better with the 5 year transition period.
Like they said they are getting the band back together. I agree with that. The future is right here. We just have to keep building what we have always had.
For 2019 USD could:
Buy out Mount Marty and Mayville State. I think almost all the Dakota Summit teams could do that, or something similar. They all have Mount Maritys.
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Post by aldewitt on Aug 19, 2018 5:46:00 GMT -6
At the end of last season we were talking about the future of the FCS. The point was being made the future is in all the empty seats. Although there was some objection SDSU and UND were the best examples of wasted potential in our region. It’s looking like the same is true for the Summit. The future is with us.
There are no other conferences willing to share their resources with any of the Dakota schools. There are no options for us, the wild speculations from siouxvolley not withstanding, the Big Sky wouldn’t even accommodate UND and they were shown the door. Those huge travel budgets and lack of fan interest in unknown opponents just doesn’t work.
NDSU with all their success in football has a hard time finding an FBS game much less an FBS conference. SDSU is the top in Summit basketball and the only chance they have is the Summit auto bid. The MVC wouldn’t even give them a look and an at-large is out of the question.
Not every school was ready for D1 when the mighty land grants decided to move. UND, along with the other D2/D1 hockey schools led the NCC schools that wanted to remain D2. Their model depended on the rest of the league providing them with quality D2 opponents, conveniently located so they could afford D1 hockey.
Eventually that collapsed due to self interest and a looming moratorium on D2 to D1 move ups forcing UND to bolt the NCC on the last day D1 applications would be received. The move up did strain their finances and cost them several sports and eventually Big Sky membership.
The lesson learned from UND is one of realistic expectations. The old NCC is growing up. 6 Summit teams including Augi are old NCC foes. As markets and budgets grow we may see other NCC members make the move too. It looks like the time for the D1 NCC has arrived.
Duluth and Mankato have the same football problem as Augi. Can the pioneer take them all or would they be the core of a new Summit non scholarship league? WIU and UND might both be more comfortable with non scholarship football too. I don’t know but its becoming clear all the wild speculation about conference realignment is behind us. Our future is a reflection of our past
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Post by aldewitt on Aug 19, 2018 10:16:42 GMT -6
It looks like the Summit’s future is set as the old NCC schools continue to wander in. If there is to be an FBS future for some of the Summit members I think it will be a new FBS league with willing and capable schools in the MVFC and the Big Sky. The other MVCF schools could stay FCS and maybe combine with the Summit FCS schools. Augi might be interested in this: “Projected yearly expenses ranged from $377,474 during the announcement year of an FCS program to $10,971,529 for the first year of FBS play.” That’s what a recent study estimated costs would be for Unv Texas Rio Grand Valley. They don’t have football and expect 40,000 enrollment by 2025. It was recommended they move to FBS. Time frame would be by 2025. Augi already has D2 football and would only need to upgrade what they have. If you need 10.9 mill for FBS Augie is well on their way to an FCS budget. www.brownsvilleherald.com/news/local/utrgv-football-feasibility-study-reveals-benefits-pitfalls/article_eb507996-f843-5b25-b3b8-89ccc9b04442.html?mode=jqm
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Post by aldewitt on Aug 20, 2018 5:17:37 GMT -6
Southern Illinois Runs the largest deficit of the MVC schools at about 4.3. They might be another candidate for Summit non scholarship football. The cost overruns are being passed on to students in the form of higher athletic fees. Here is a typical comment to the article: “The athletic fee that students pay quoted in the article as $350, which now thanks to the board will be uncapped at $26.25 per credit hour which if you want to graduate on time will be $26.25 x 15 = $393.75 each semester, or $787.50 a year. What does that get you? Free admission in the games. Which how many students actually go to the games? I’d wager much less than half. So we have the entire student body generously donating just shy of 800 bucks to the school for ATHLETICS! Guys, this is an educational institution, not a professional sports team. Why is the largest fee charged to students funding ATHLETICS!!!?? Meanwhile students cant buy groceries, and the library cuts hours? And not only this but the 8.1 million dollars donated by students who don’t see a penny in value is spent by SIU and the Athletics programs run up an additional 4 million in the red? Great and that is ultimately payed for by who? the University, which is funded by tuition of you got it, the students. What a joke. Eliminate athletics fees, and have sports programs run off of the income the bring in. Sports teams should not be funded on the backs of students trying to earn a degree.” it it certainly doesn’t sound like they are ready for an FBS move. Seems like BB might be their focus. dailyegyptian.com/79417/more-headlines/siu-athletics-running-on-cumulative-deficit-of-26-million/
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Post by yote14 on Aug 20, 2018 7:20:21 GMT -6
I could be wrong but I believe its called an activities fee at USD not an athletics fee. At least it was when I was there. So should we cut all student funding to drama, theatre, etc. and make them fund themselves or fail. without sports teams a college has no image. How many Minnesota School of business shirts do you see walking around.
If you want to look at it black and white then yes sports teams at almost every college lose money. What would endowments and public support look like at all of those colleges without sports teams?
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Post by kiyoat on Aug 20, 2018 7:48:05 GMT -6
I can’t remember where I read it, (maybe here) but when discussing the financing of college sports, one solution might include having the NCAA lighten up a bit on its regulatory model.
Obviously Title IX isn’t going away, and shouldn’t, but some of the NCAA’s regulations have zero to do with Title IX, zero to do with helping the student-athletes, and zero to do with common sense.
Scholarship limits can help keep the playing field level competitively in sports like football, but for many other sports they are either burdensome or restrictive, not reflecting the actual participation numbers of a popular sport like softball, and forcing unpopular sports down our throats.
Also, the “all-or-nothing” model for which division hurts schools (like Augie) that could otherwise leave football in D-2. Aldewitt mentioned WIU and SIU, I would add UNO. Many fans were extremely upset when they chose to drop football. BTW, UND will be fine...
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Post by Yote 53 on Aug 20, 2018 8:04:01 GMT -6
UND going to non-scholarship football or the Dakota schools joining with Montanas and Idahos to make a new western FCS or FBS-G5 conference, what is more likely to happen? You can say that the Big North conference will never happen, you might be right, but UND dropping scholarship football is even more far-fetched.
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