SDSU

[ElsenMidco]

Nov 11, 2015 11:52:23 GMT -6 Yotes said:

9.5 is what I thought the line should be. The most likely outcome of this game in my mind is SDSU winning by 7-10 points, though in a game like we have Saturday this thing could easily swing a couple TDs either way of that line.

I screwed that up. Fixed in original post now, but the line is actually 10.5

[yote14]

Nov 11, 2015 8:28:40 GMT -6 Cousin Eddie said:

State College beat writer or not, this is a well written piece from Matt Zimmer:

www.argusleader.com/story/sports/2015/11/10/coyotes-resurgence-has-sdsus-attention/75522010/

The Argus may not have a guy that busts his butt like TV did anymore, but I think the quality of their writing is much higher with Mick and Zimmer. Just my opinion, however.

I liked the article as well.

It's sad however when the SDSU beat writer's article here is better than any article Mick has created in the past 4 years. Why didn't Mick write this one?? All I hear is he has nothing to write about ever. I wish the Argus would get someone that cares about this job instead of Mick who's answer to everything is "I don't know" "I will look into that" "I haven't heard anything" and "it's a paycheck". Hard for fans to engage his work or blogs when he brings little to no knowledge or answers to questions.

Nice work Zimmer you do a great job and I wish the Yotes had you. Maybe you can try to teach Mick a thing or two.

[GoYotes]

I really like Mick's work. Does a great job on the personal side of a lot of stories, kind of in the story in the story sort of way. I think the Yotes are fortunate to get a lot of coverage from 2 newspapers that being Mick with the Argus and Jeremy with the P&D and a fair amount of coverage from Barry Poe of the SC Journal. Add in the KVHT trio of Joe VG, Thayer & Culver plus the Midco trio of Elsen, Heinert and Fields and the Yotes get better overall media coverage than most mid-major/FCS programs

[golfingyote]

Nov 11, 2015 13:41:26 GMT -6 GoYotes said:

I really like Mick's work. Does a great job on the personal side of a lot of stories, kind of in the story in the story sort of way. I think the Yotes are fortunate do get a lot of coverage from 2 newspapers that being Mick with the Argus and Jeremy with the P&D and a fair amount of coverage from Barry Poe of the SC Journal. Add in the KVHT trio of Joe VG, Thayer & Culver plus the Midco trio of Elsen, Heinert and Fields and the Yotes get better overall media coverage than most mid-major/FCS programs

Agreed, well said. Do we really need to beat a dead horse on this matter every 6 months? I think its hilarious that this convo is happening on both the sdsu message board as well as this board. Could you imagine a group of people who know little about your job talking about and discussing your job performance in this setting? Mick does a fine job. To his credit, he has done a nice job with the coyote football stories this fall, as well as keeping up with the hoops teams.

[yote14]

when you have a job in the public setting its going to be scrutinized. I respect your opinion that he does a good job. I do not share that opinion and if his job performance, or lack there of, is never brought up how will it ever change? It would be nice someday to read the Argus blog on Thursdays and not have every answer from him be "I don't know" or "I'm just here to get a paycheck".

If I was a politician or PR rep you could scrutinize me all you want. Someone could do it in my current job for all I care. If you are not doing your job effectively either change or go do something else. Everyone else in that list does an amazing job so its not unreasonable to expect similar results from Mick.

What aspect of Micks job would none of us know anything about?

[olifer]

Nov 11, 2015 13:52:36 GMT -6 golfingyote said:

Nov 11, 2015 13:41:26 GMT -6 GoYotes said:

I really like Mick's work. Does a great job on the personal side of a lot of stories, kind of in the story in the story sort of way. I think the Yotes are fortunate do get a lot of coverage from 2 newspapers that being Mick with the Argus and Jeremy with the P&D and a fair amount of coverage from Barry Poe of the SC Journal. Add in the KVHT trio of Joe VG, Thayer & Culver plus the Midco trio of Elsen, Heinert and Fields and the Yotes get better overall media coverage than most mid-major/FCS programs

Agreed, well said. Do we really need to beat a dead horse on this matter every 6 months? I think its hilarious that this convo is happening on both the sdsu message board as well as this board. Could you imagine a group of people who know little about your job talking about and discussing your job performance in this setting? Mick does a fine job. To his credit, he has done a nice job with the coyote football stories this fall, as well as keeping up with the hoops teams.

Agreed as well.  I think these guys do a terrific job and I'm really impressed with Barry Poe's stuff from Sioux City.  I make it a routine to always check the P&D, the Journal, and the Argus Leader for anything related to the program.  

[Yote 53]

Some quickly forget the numerous good articles Mick was pumping out the beginning of the season.

I wish USD had a bigger presence at the Argus, the way it is though we can't complain about the many different places the Coyotes are covered, between the Argus, Journal, P&D, even the Vermillion papers which are full of coverage.

[yodayote]

Focus people focus, we have the biggest game of the year against our biggest rival coming up, and your talking about journalist?! Let's get this thread back on track.

So what is the deal with SDSU claiming they lead the series at 51-50-6 instead of 51-51-7 and the Yotes never trailing in the series?

[jackjd]

Nov 11, 2015 21:49:23 GMT -6 yodayote said:

...

So what is the deal with SDSU claiming they lead the series at 51-50-6 instead of 51-51-7 and the Yotes never trailing in the series?

The series records have been off for decades. About a year ago when I wanted to waste 15 minutes, I went through each school's media guide where series records are maintained. I made some notes but cannot locate them right now but the discrepancies could be determined. However, that search didn't reveal which school's records were correct (and didn't rule out both schools' records being off by a game or two). Further research, probably in newspaper accounts from games played decades ago would be required to determine what the actual facts are.

For many years the series record reported in pregame media info from each school have not matched. Once an error occurs, it's easy to repeat because the media info just updates certain stats from the prior year's info.

[coyotecrazie5]

I looked through each teams media guides, and found a few differences.

There are 3 differences between the schools.

They both agree first game 1889, tie 6-6.

USD says there was a game in 1900 in which USD won 17-0, SDSU says there was no game.

1901, each team says there was a game in which USD won 22-0. USD says there was another game, which USD won 6-0, but this game is not listed for SDSU.

The other difference is 1922. USD and SDSU agree there was one game and they tied 7-7. SDSU says there was also a second game, which they say USD won 15-6. USD does not recognize this game.

All other games and scores were the same.

Looking at these differences, USD says it is 51-51-7.

According to what I counted in SDSU's guide, the series should be listed as 51-50-7, but is printed as 50-50-7.
SDSU also say they played USD-Springfield twice, last in 1931. I do not see them on their schedules posted at all, so something doesn't add up.

I got all of the game numbers from each teams football media books found on each their respective website.

[jackjd]

I found my notes. What got me curious about the series-record discrepancy was a comment made by Mick Garry in the 11/23/14 Sunday Argus Leader. He pointed out that the two schools reported difference series records.

If you compare the all-time series records published by each school in their media guides, you will see that the information matches except for three years: 1900, 1901 and 1922.

1900: SDSU's records do not show a game with USD in 1900. USD shows a 17-0 win over SDSU that year.
1901: USD's records show two games against SDSU, a 22-0 USD win and a 6-0 USD win. SDSU's records show just one game that year, the 22-0 USD win.
1922: SDSU's records show two games against USD, a USD win of 15-7 and a 7-7 tie. USD's records show only the 7-7 tie.

USD's records show all-time ties at 7 while SDSU's reports ties at 6. My review of the printed records showed there were seven ties. The media-guide info from each school shows the following seven ties: 1889, 6-6; 1904, 6-6; 1922, 7-7; 1926, 0-0; 1932, 0-0; 1952, 21-21; and 1976, 17-17.

Looking at media guides does not resolve the actual fact of wins and losses. I would argue that since there is agreement in the media guides about ties (except for SDSU's statement of total ties), that we can all agree there were seven ties. (And, since ties can't happen any more, who cares?) There are stories/legends/claims -- call them what you will and who knows if some or all or true or false -- that, if true, may explain the discrepancy depending on the accuracy of the stories/legends/claims. For example, in a year in which the teams played twice, was one game an exhibition game and was agreed in advance to not be counted?

Was it possible that one team could count a game while the other called it exhibition? We do that today in basketball (e.g. SDSU hosts DWU but SDSU lists it as exhibition while DWU lists it as a counter.


I think the discrepancy can only be resolved with some certainty by resorting to outside sources, the most obvious being a daily newspaper's reports of the games played in 1900, 1901 and 1922. I know the Watertown Public Opinion is available on microfilm for public searching at the Watertown Regional Library. Likely the Argus Leader is available too.

ADDED: looks like I was typing as coyotecrazie5 posted but you can see we point out basically the same years etc.

[coyotecrazie5]

Crazy how it could be different, just adds to the lore of the rivalry.

[jackjd]

Agreed.

And, it's possible, once the actual history is reviewed, that both schools are wrong; or neither school is right; or both schools are right (if it was possible for one to count a game while the other did not...one old story I heard is there were limits on the number of games so if a school had an extra game, they just called it an exhibition game).

[jimmyjack]

This is going to be a really entertaining game, I think. USD has a solid team and I have enjoyed watching them this year. It's fun to have a second team to root for in the Valley. Saeger has been very effective at times, Van Ginkel is a stud. It's a shame that Bouma got hurt. Rivalry games are a lot of fun, particularly when both teams are pretty good.

Absent a ton of turnovers (and SDSU has been very good at protecting the ball), I think the Jacks win by 14 or so. Jacks fans will have to sit through four series to know who the QB will be the rest of the game, which is annoying. Lujan always knows where to go with the ball, but holds it forever and is not mobile. Christion isn't as accomplished as a reader of defenses, obviously, but makes up for that by being the best athlete on the field. We all know he's fast and elusive, but he also has a gun for an arm and is a pretty accurate passer. My gut tells me TC will be more effective, particularly since Van Ginkel and the Coyote d-line will likely put some pressure on the QBs.

Of course you just never know what will happen. And that's what makes rivalry games so great.

[Yotes]

Here are links to the four fall 1900 issues of the Volante:

dlsd.sdln.net/cdm/compoundobject/collection/volante/id/2830/rec/161
dlsd.sdln.net/cdm/compoundobject/collection/volante/id/2869/rec/162
dlsd.sdln.net/cdm/compoundobject/collection/volante/id/2843/rec/163
dlsd.sdln.net/cdm/compoundobject/collection/volante/id/2817/rec/164

I thought maybe sifting through the student paper might give some more details at least on the disputed 1900 game (my quick google search only yielded the archived Volantes from 1887-1901). I'd go through all of this now but I've got to get to work. The first issue I looked at has an article on USD beating Medics (Sioux City Medics) 23-0.