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Post by Coyote Fan on Mar 20, 2021 1:46:52 GMT -6
I am happy that ORU won. If it were SDSU I would have cheered against them regardless of any money stipulations. Somethings money just can't buy, and it can't buy me cheering for a certain team. So much for defense being the key to winning in post season. ORU wins because of their offense. They should be able to hang with the Gators.
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Post by leatherneckcountry on Mar 20, 2021 13:21:07 GMT -6
I am happy that ORU won. If it were SDSU I would have cheered against them regardless of any money stipulations. Somethings money just can't buy, and it can't buy me cheering for a certain team. So much for defense being the key to winning in post season. ORU wins because of their offense. They should be able to hang with the Gators. They only scored 75 in an OT so there defense was pretty good.
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Post by gopheryote on Mar 21, 2021 19:49:05 GMT -6
O R FREAKIN U!!!!!!!
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Post by kiyoat on Mar 21, 2021 19:52:18 GMT -6
Cha-Ching.
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Post by Yotes on Mar 21, 2021 20:11:14 GMT -6
Looks like ORU got a #15 seed, and will be playing Ohio State on Friday afternoon @ 2:00PM CST. I almost wish they had gotten the 16 seed like NDSU did two years ago. Those 16v16 play-in games still count as a win to increase the tournament payout to conferences. Just keeps getting worse with age
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Post by kiyoat on Mar 21, 2021 21:34:00 GMT -6
Looks like ORU got a #15 seed, and will be playing Ohio State on Friday afternoon @ 2:00PM CST. I almost wish they had gotten the 16 seed like NDSU did two years ago. Those 16v16 play-in games still count as a win to increase the tournament payout to conferences. Just keeps getting worse with age C'Mon, man! quit kicking me while I'm down....
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Post by elcoyote on Mar 22, 2021 7:28:59 GMT -6
Anyone have any idea how much a share is worth to each Summit school for these ORU wins?
Just found out some stuff: didn't realize these wins are not one time payouts but the conference teams will keep cashing in for six years. Quite the racket for the P5's. If my in-the-head math is correct, which is highly doubtful, it'll probably be around something like 3.5 million divided by the nine conference teams. Six years of that is pretty lucrative. Plus conference schools can add in the NDSU win a few years back. Feel free to set me straight on this if I'm way off.
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Post by kiyoat on Mar 22, 2021 8:09:01 GMT -6
Anyone have any idea how much a share is worth to each Summit school for these ORU wins? Just found out some stuff: didn't realize these wins are not one time payouts but the conference teams will keep cashing in for six years. Quite the racket for the P5's. If my in-the-head math is correct, which is highly doubtful, it'll probably be around something like 3.5 million divided by the nine conference teams. Six years of that is pretty lucrative. Plus conference schools can add in the NDSU win a few years back. Feel free to set me straight on this if I'm way off. An NCAA tournament "unit" (payout per tournament appearance) varies over time, but recently I saw it was worth about 1.67 million divided by 6. That may have gone down with the cancelled tournament last year, but I'm not sure. Basically that 1.67 million each conference gets by just showing up (auto bids) is distributed over 6 years ($278,333 per year for 6 years). The payments "stack", meaning that a mid-major conference that gets only one team in every year, and never wins a game, will get paid for each of the previous six years they were in the conference. So it "stacks back up to between 1 and 2 million each year. Keep in mind that the number changes each year based on income to the tournament, so the stacked number is based on past payout amounts. Usually the number gets larger as the tournament makes more each year. Conferences that get multiple teams in the tournament (Power 6) get a unit for each team appearance. Teams that win games and advance earn an additional unit for each appearance. So the two teams in the championship game have each earned their conferences six units paid out over the following 6 years. You are right that the power conferences make big money on this. Mid-major conferences that get at-large teams in make more money from the NCAA. Mid majors that get wins make more money for their conferences. I'll do a breakdown of the Summit in another post:
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Post by kiyoat on Mar 22, 2021 9:00:08 GMT -6
Estimated Summit League Payouts (using a fixed $278k as a hypothetical) year | auto-bid | at large | seed | units | Summit Payout | 2009 | NDSU |
| 14 | 1 | 7 units# | 2010 | Oakland |
| 14 | 1 | 7 units# | 2011 | Oakland |
| 13 | 1 | 7 units# | 2012 | SDSU |
| 14 | 1 | 6 units | 2013 | SDSU |
| 13 | 1 | 6 units | 2014 | NDSU |
| 14 | 2* | 6 units | 2015 | NDSU |
| 15 | 1 | 7 units ($1.95 mil) | 2016 | SDSU |
| 12 | 1 | 7 units ($1.95 mil) | 2018 | SDSU |
| 16 | 1 | 7 units ($1.95 mil) | 2019 | NDSU |
| 16 | 2** | 7 units ($1.95 mil) | 2020 | NDSU |
| -- | 0?*** | 7 units ($1.95 mil) |
# in 2005 Oakland beat 16-seed Alabama A&M * in 2014 NDSU beat 5-seed Oklahoma **in 2019 NDSU beat 16-seed NC Central *** in 2020 the NCAA lost all tournament revenue. Insurance was paid, but AFAIK it did not provide for payouts. So in 2021 we would still get one more payment above 6 based on NDSU's 2014 win, and one more based on NDSU's 2019 win, but lose one based on the 2020 mess. So 7 units again. In 2022 we would get 8 units (should have been 9, but 2020 happened) On a per-team basis, each tournament win gives each member of the Summit an extra $28,000 or so each year for 6 years (based on a 10-team Summit). One football pay-to-play game against a P-5 team has a bigger impact, but if we can keep winning in the tournament year after year, it will stack and add up.
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Post by Yotes on Mar 22, 2021 11:50:16 GMT -6
Anyone have any idea how much a share is worth to each Summit school for these ORU wins? Just found out some stuff: didn't realize these wins are not one time payouts but the conference teams will keep cashing in for six years. Quite the racket for the P5's. If my in-the-head math is correct, which is highly doubtful, it'll probably be around something like 3.5 million divided by the nine conference teams. Six years of that is pretty lucrative. Plus conference schools can add in the NDSU win a few years back. Feel free to set me straight on this if I'm way off. An NCAA tournament "unit" (payout per tournament appearance) varies over time, but recently I saw it was worth about 1.67 million divided by 6. That may have gone down with the cancelled tournament last year, but I'm not sure. Basically that 1.67 million each conference gets by just showing up (auto bids) is distributed over 6 years ($278,333 per year for 6 years). The payments "stack", meaning that a mid-major conference that gets only one team in every year, and never wins a game, will get paid for each of the previous six years they were in the conference. So it "stacks back up to between 1 and 2 million each year. Keep in mind that the number changes each year based on income to the tournament, so the stacked number is based on past payout amounts. Usually the number gets larger as the tournament makes more each year. Conferences that get multiple teams in the tournament (Power 6) get a unit for each team appearance. Teams that win games and advance earn an additional unit for each appearance. So the two teams in the championship game have each earned their conferences six units paid out over the following 6 years. You are right that the power conferences make big money on this. Mid-major conferences that get at-large teams in make more money from the NCAA. Mid majors that get wins make more money for their conferences. I'll do a breakdown of the Summit in another post: Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the value of those units increase with each passing round? So having ORU play in the Sweet 16 is worth 4 times more than in the round of 64?
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Post by kiyoat on Mar 22, 2021 12:44:52 GMT -6
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the value of those units increase with each passing round? So having ORU play in the Sweet 16 is worth 4 times more than in the round of 64? No, as far as I understand it each "appearance" (each game played in an appearance) is worth a "tournament unit" (even if you lose in the first round), and the amount is static in a given year. The amount does change from year to year based on what the NCAA hauls in revenue. Generally the amount increases each year. I assume that inflation is a factor, as well as tournament popularity. I did just read that the championship game is not rewarded with an additional unit, so the most any one team can earn is 5 units ($8.35 mil) by getting to the Final Four. The "payout" amount is 1/6 of the unit, and is payed each year to the conference. (I could have the terminology backwards, but you get the idea). So rather than one unit, ORU just earned three units for the Summit League (about $5 million) with the chance of more. That's worth a payment of $835,000 each year to the Summit for six years, or $83,500 per school per year for six years (divided 10 ways)... Keep in mind that a third of that would be coming to us anyway via the auto-bid.
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Post by kiyoat on Mar 22, 2021 12:57:25 GMT -6
The big kick in the nuts for mid-majors is that the Big 10 just got 9 teams in. Only six of them secured wins, and only two survived to the Sweet 16. Even with that massive failure, they earned 15 units so far ($25 million)! At least they are forced to split it 14 ways instead of 10.
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Post by elcoyote on Mar 22, 2021 13:23:32 GMT -6
As always, tremendous work, kiyoat. Muchos gracias!
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Post by lakesbison on Mar 22, 2021 20:37:26 GMT -6
congrats to ORU. that's so sweet . I can't imagine the feeling. in 2014 we drove all the way to Spokane and when NDSU was up by 6 early we were going crazy *then lost* what a rush I bet.
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Post by gopheryote on Mar 25, 2021 10:58:01 GMT -6
This video is awesome at showing you the game within the game with ORU. Very interesting 8 minutes, if you ever wonder what coaches try to figure out and make decision about.
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