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Post by Coyote Fan on Oct 26, 2011 22:00:28 GMT -6
If the Big Sky reached out and offered the Dakota 3 invitations I would take that in a heartbeat. I think the MVFC is nice for football but I would definately take the Sky over the Summit in the other sports.
I guess I like the sound of being in with the University of a state, the State University of a state or a directional school of a state. No IUPUI, IPFW, Oakland or UMKC
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Post by #1CoyoteFan (Admin) on Oct 27, 2011 0:32:18 GMT -6
So when did Weber get added as a new state to the union? And doesn't the I in both of those stand for Indiana...associating themselves with a state... At least that point worked for Oakland...
Oh, also UMKC has the Missouri in it...associating them as a directional state school, too.
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Post by bigOyote on Oct 27, 2011 15:55:24 GMT -6
next year uNo as well I like the idea of the teams not traveling all over the earth playing the sports most of us never talk about. The expense from that is going to hurt bad. The local community will rally around the sports because they will can relate to the teams the Yotes because they are close by and have similar communities. A farming/commercial like Vermillion can relate to any school town in Illinios but can they relate to a mountain town or one in California. Being able to relate as communities helps to build interest. One reason conferences were created with schools based on geographical similarities. Case in point Colorado was never a rival of Nebraska until the buffs coach manufactured one.
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Post by Coyote Fan on Oct 27, 2011 17:27:28 GMT -6
If travel was the biggest concern than South Dakota might as well drop down to NAIA and join the GPAC. It would be wheels to every game and Coyote fans could go to the road games. Colorado has just as much in common with Nebraska as they do with USC. Not much. Since their is no such thing as a true mountain conference where all teams are in the Rockies the geographical argument really doesn't hold much water. If USD cared about that they wouldn't be in a conference that has so many schools in large metro areas such as what the Summit features. Kansas City, Indianapolis, Fort Wayne, Detroit etc. USD probably has more in common with the Big Sky schools that aren't necessarily located in large cities.
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Post by bigOyote on Oct 28, 2011 22:20:36 GMT -6
OK plain language. SOuth Dakota has a lot more in common with I'll. and In. than any state with mountains or oceans. Midwest values are the same regardless of state or population center. Living in Omaha I see a lot of the same values that I witnessed living in Vermillion population has nothing to do with it.
Read a map some time, University of Colorado was several hours drive west from the rest of the Big Eight and until the recent conference movements the wacky west was all mountain schools.
USD belongs in a conference like the Summit before it belongs in the Big Sky.
BTW there their and they're it is not that hard - I am presumming we have a degree from the same institution.
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Post by Coyote Fan on Oct 28, 2011 23:29:01 GMT -6
IMO it's more important to be with like schools than it is stictly a geography thing. Geography is important to a point but it only goes so far. The North Central Conference was one thing. It was very closely situated except for Northern Colorado. The Summit is another thing. Coyote fans aren't going to relate to IUPUI, IPFW, Oakland and UMKC. Personally if a school isn't within reasonable driving distance, maybe 4 hours does it really matter to most fans if it's IPFW or Weber State. Personally I relate to Weber State, Idaho State, Northern Arizona etc than I do to the eastern block of the Summit League.
Think about this.
Which Conference would you rather belong to.
A closer conference such as what the Summit is currently, and to me it's really not all that close or something like this.
Idaho Idaho State Montana State Montana Utah State Eastern Washington Northern Arizona
I take the State schools and U's anyday over a metro area club such as IUPUI, IPFW or Oakland. Half the Summit League schools are in areas where they are about the 8th most important sports entity in their area. No one cares about UMKC in Kansas City. IUPUI in Indy or Oakland in Detroit. On the other hand schools such as Idaho State, Montana State, Montana, Eastern Washington etc are a bigger deal in their area and have fans that care more in general and simply have more name recognition. I would venture to guess that if you ask the average college sports fan around the Nation where the Summit League was many wouldn't know. USD is trying to be more well known nationally, hence the SD logo. The Big Sky isn't the biggest deal in the country but I would venture to guess that people at least know that the Big Sky is based around the states such as Montana, Idaho and Utah. The non populated Northern Mountain States. The Big Sky to me is something I would have personally been very proud of. The Summit League is ok, afterall it's a league but it's just not as recognizable and that is an important aspect to the majority of Coyote fans.
Lets face it. There is no way that USD would have gone to the Summit without two factors being in place. South Dakota State and the Summit League tourney in Sioux Falls and to a much lesser degree NDSU. That is pretty much it. USD certainly isn't in the Summit because of the Eastern Block schools and I don't think the travel is all that easy in the Summit either.
I have grown to accept the Summit but I still think the Big Sky would have been the better choice. If SDSU went to the Big Sky for whatever reason and NDSU went to the MVC, USD would come with their Coyote tail wagging back to Commissioner Fullerton to get in the Big Sky.
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Post by #1CoyoteFan (Admin) on Oct 29, 2011 1:16:25 GMT -6
You related to Northern Arizona and Idaho State because you chose too. No one is going to know who Weber State is, but because of the Summit League tournament, they have heard of UMKC, IUPUI and IPFW.
Also, more people recognize the Summit League. Why? Because it is on ESPN more. They also recognize the Missouri Valley Football Conference more. Why? Because they associate it with the Missouri Valley Conference. That isn't ideal, but it relates a lot more. Just ask UNI and how much it gets on ESPN compared to Northern Colorado, which most of the country doesn't even know exists. But yet that was the top team in the Big Sky. Ask people from Virginia if they have ever heard of Northern Colorado, I will bet no. That's who won the Big Sky.
People have heard of Oakland. I knew Oakland existed even before USD, SDSU and NDSU went D-I. Why? Because they were on ESPN on the selection show. They were shown. I don't remember a Big Sky team ever getting any pub besides 5 minutes of Montana a couple of years ago.
I get it, the Big Sky is the sexy choice. Doesn't make it the right choice. More money can be made in the Summit League, that's for sure. Money is needed for this. Many of you complain about a lack of coaches, well the travel in the Big Sky might have cost the Coyotes a coach in men's bball, women's bball and football. Not ideal there is it, but have to pay for those rising travel costs.
Plus USD will draw bigger for SDSU and NDSU for basketball more than any of the schools in the Big Sky. One, because more fans will know them and two, more fans will travel to Vermillion for them. Think Northern Colorado will make the trip? Think again. So that's more money in gate receipts.
In fact, bringing in Augie in the D-II days would probably outdraw anyone but North Dakota, which Augie was equal too.
That's money, plain and simple. Is Nike always the best shoe? No, but it's the most recognizable and people are going to drop money on it because of that.
The Summit is more profitable than the Big Sky. That's a key factor right there, and in today's NCAA, that seems to be driving everyone.
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Post by bigOyote on Oct 29, 2011 8:43:45 GMT -6
I also see a certain stability in the non football schools like Oakland et al. There is no movement amongst conferences based on basketball. Those schools are staying put and not chasing some imaginary pot of cash. The schools you hold up as examples often are seen as targets for conferences that need something to keep them alive. The schools in the Summit are not going anywhere which will allow the U. to grow into the new place in the sports world.
If you want to make an argument over names of schools in a conference how about Portland State, Sacramento State, Weber State, and really who in this part of the country can tell the difference between the systems that Cal Poly and UC Davis are in. All I know about these schools is don't call UC Davis CaL Davis. If you want to pick a conference based on school names we better just get into the B1G.
BTW just an off handed question . . . who picked the name Summit there isn't a dam@ed mountain anywhere in the conference?
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Post by jacksfan29 on Nov 13, 2011 13:51:54 GMT -6
If travel was the biggest concern than South Dakota might as well drop down to NAIA and join the GPAC. It would be wheels to every game and Coyote fans could go to the road games. Colorado has just as much in common with Nebraska as they do with USC. Not much. Since their is no such thing as a true mountain conference where all teams are in the Rockies the geographical argument really doesn't hold much water. If USD cared about that they wouldn't be in a conference that has so many schools in large metro areas such as what the Summit features. Kansas City, Indianapolis, Fort Wayne, Detroit etc. USD probably has more in common with the Big Sky schools that aren't necessarily located in large cities. You don't know much about the Big Sky do you? The reaon many alumni at UM and MSU want out of the Big Sky is due to the number of commuter schools that have been brought into the conference. You also don't seem to understand the difference between the Mountains and the Midwest. Those of us who live west of the Rockies don't associate with Nebraska, SD or ND. We go west, yes we do have a lot more in common with California then we do with Iowa. I'm thinking you need to get out more, or at least do some research.
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Post by #1CoyoteFan (Admin) on Nov 13, 2011 14:45:45 GMT -6
If travel was the biggest concern than South Dakota might as well drop down to NAIA and join the GPAC. It would be wheels to every game and Coyote fans could go to the road games. Colorado has just as much in common with Nebraska as they do with USC. Not much. Since their is no such thing as a true mountain conference where all teams are in the Rockies the geographical argument really doesn't hold much water. If USD cared about that they wouldn't be in a conference that has so many schools in large metro areas such as what the Summit features. Kansas City, Indianapolis, Fort Wayne, Detroit etc. USD probably has more in common with the Big Sky schools that aren't necessarily located in large cities. You don't know much about the Big Sky do you? The reaon many alumni at UM and MSU want out of the Big Sky is due to the number of commuter schools that have been brought into the conference. You also don't seem to understand the difference between the Mountains and the Midwest. Those of us who live west of the Rockies don't associate with Nebraska, SD or ND. We go west, yes we do have a lot more in common with California then we do with Iowa. I'm thinking you need to get out more, or at least do some research. That you jacksfan for bring logic to the conversation, something that has been missing, especially from the person you quoted.
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Post by Coyote Fan on Nov 13, 2011 15:11:17 GMT -6
If travel was the biggest concern than South Dakota might as well drop down to NAIA and join the GPAC. It would be wheels to every game and Coyote fans could go to the road games. Colorado has just as much in common with Nebraska as they do with USC. Not much. Since their is no such thing as a true mountain conference where all teams are in the Rockies the geographical argument really doesn't hold much water. If USD cared about that they wouldn't be in a conference that has so many schools in large metro areas such as what the Summit features. Kansas City, Indianapolis, Fort Wayne, Detroit etc. USD probably has more in common with the Big Sky schools that aren't necessarily located in large cities. You don't know much about the Big Sky do you? The reaon many alumni at UM and MSU want out of the Big Sky is due to the number of commuter schools that have been brought into the conference. You also don't seem to understand the difference between the Mountains and the Midwest. Those of us who live west of the Rockies don't associate with Nebraska, SD or ND. We go west, yes we do have a lot more in common with California then we do with Iowa. I'm thinking you need to get out more, or at least do some research. I may not know much about the big sky in your mind but what school was it not so long ago that was dreaming about being in the Big Sky? Wasn't that a school that you may just happen to cheer for quite intensely. When that mysterious school was going D1 you didn't hear about them wanting to be a part of the Mid Continent Conference. It was the Big Sky that was desired. People tend to accept their current situation as the best situation to create a peace of mind. The bottom line is that a good number of schools in the Summit desire to be in a different league but the Summit is just what is convenient for the time being. Eventhough my desire was to be in the Big Sky over the Summit I will still be very interested in being in a real conference. From USD's perspective the Summit took a big hit by losing Oral Roberts (or maybe not in many USD minds). It gained back a big positive by having an arena in Sioux Falls approved that will make it very difficult for the Summit to move the tourney elsewhere. I do think being in the MVFC is a whisker better than being in the Big Sky for football. For the other sports I still think the Big Sky would be better. Just my opinion. If that opinion is one that you absolutely disagree with and think is an uninformed decision well than there are quite a few uniformed USD people that are fairly intelligent and more well informed than you might think.
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Post by #1CoyoteFan (Admin) on Nov 14, 2011 0:52:03 GMT -6
Guess that means coyotefan thinks David Sayler is pretty uninformed then...I mean, he did work at Rice, which is a pretty smart institution ... so I am pretty sure he knows what's going on.
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