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Post by Coyote Fan on May 9, 2013 10:27:28 GMT -6
The Summit is in real trouble right now and if people ignore it and hope the problem goes away it will. The "will" is the Summit. People have tried to ignore you but you don't go away. I have barely been posting so it's not like I am dominating this board as of late. Carrying on...It's not always THAT you lose but WHO you lose. Oral Roberts and Oakland were very respected and competitive programs that really boosted the overall stature of the Summit. Before the Dakota's existed in the Summit those two programs were the forces in men's basketball. We can either cry about it at USD or be part of the sollution as far as where the path should go from here. Of course it takes the administration to be on board but here are my ideas as far as what should be done. I think one of two things should happen as follows and neither involved continuing in the Summit without a real plan in place to continue it and/or strengthen it. 2. I will start with option 2 first. Come back with our Coyote tails between our legs and beg that the Big Sky reconsiders and takes us in. I think we would be a good fit in the Big Sky whether The Dakota U's would be a part of it or not. 1. Be a driving force to form a power mid major conference with football and basketball membership mandatory. None of this "rely on trying to figure out every other week how the MVFC and Summit can both continue to co exist" with the Summit having a 200/100 blood pressure and a pulse that is about to flatline. I would think some of the Valley all sports programs could be convinced to do this because of stability. West UND NDSU SDSU USD UND UNC East Western Illinois Northern Iowa Missouri State Indiana State Illinois State Southern Illinois This divides the conference into 2 divisions for football and still allows for a full round robin for all other sports. In basketball scheduling is difficult so I wouldn't mind the 22 auto games every year. I also think for basketball the conference easily rivals the Valley. Really how do these schools say no to this. Stability and an all sports all encompassing conference. The east schools have plenty of membership and the west schools have plenty of membership. The basketball tourney could be held in Sioux Falls every other year and somewhere out east every other year. All teams get a fair shake having the tourney fairly close to home. The only question, what do we name the new conference?
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Post by Coyote Fan on May 9, 2013 11:01:34 GMT -6
Ooops I need to redo the West had UND in their twice
replace the second with UNO if they are willing to add back football. If not move UNI west and find another eastern school.
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Post by Yote 53 on May 9, 2013 11:53:20 GMT -6
We can put together dream conferecnes or we can put forth some realistic ideas.
This discussion starts and finishes with the understanding the Valley teams are not going anywhere unless a BCS conference comes calling.
It is plausible that UND would consider the Summit under the right conditions. I don't think it is out of whack for UNC to consider it as well, especially if DU and AFA are already in the conference.
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Post by golfingyote on May 9, 2013 13:25:00 GMT -6
The Valley tends to handle things in their own unique way. There is too much money flowing in to make any changes to that basketball conference. I've never really been a huge Big Sky proponent. I think we made the right call trying to get back in with SDSU and NDSU, rather than playing weber state and sacramento state back to back in basketball.
You can look at different scenarions of dream conferences and this and that but teams in the valley like what they have and the profit sharing they have. I would be highly surprised to see much more movement in or out of that conference in football or basketball. Maybe a team or 2 coming in for football.
I think looking at the UNC/UND combo is a good fit for the summit. However, Teams out East would most likely rather see us go after Milwaukee and Green Bay. Either way you slice it, travel is not great with Denver on an Island. Might be hard to convince UND and UNC to leave the Big Sky as thats clearly a league that should be around for a while.
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Post by #1CoyoteFan (Admin) on May 9, 2013 13:57:41 GMT -6
People have tried to ignore you but you don't go away. I have barely been posting so it's not like I am dominating this board as of late. Carrying on...It's not always THAT you lose but WHO you lose. Oral Roberts and Oakland were very respected and competitive programs that really boosted the overall stature of the Summit. Before the Dakota's existed in the Summit those two programs were the forces in men's basketball. We can either cry about it at USD or be part of the sollution as far as where the path should go from here. Of course it takes the administration to be on board but here are my ideas as far as what should be done. I think one of two things should happen as follows and neither involved continuing in the Summit without a real plan in place to continue it and/or strengthen it. 2. I will start with option 2 first. Come back with our Coyote tails between our legs and beg that the Big Sky reconsiders and takes us in. I think we would be a good fit in the Big Sky whether The Dakota U's would be a part of it or not. 1. Be a driving force to form a power mid major conference with football and basketball membership mandatory. None of this "rely on trying to figure out every other week how the MVFC and Summit can both continue to co exist" with the Summit having a 200/100 blood pressure and a pulse that is about to flatline. I would think some of the Valley all sports programs could be convinced to do this because of stability. West UND NDSU SDSU USD UND UNC East Western Illinois Northern Iowa Missouri State Indiana State Illinois State Southern Illinois This divides the conference into 2 divisions for football and still allows for a full round robin for all other sports. In basketball scheduling is difficult so I wouldn't mind the 22 auto games every year. I also think for basketball the conference easily rivals the Valley. Really how do these schools say no to this. Stability and an all sports all encompassing conference. The east schools have plenty of membership and the west schools have plenty of membership. The basketball tourney could be held in Sioux Falls every other year and somewhere out east every other year. All teams get a fair shake having the tourney fairly close to home. The only question, what do we name the new conference? Yeah, he hasn't been posting that much lately, and it's not like his ideas on this are that crazy, honestly. While I don't totally agree, I am not ready to go into panic mood, but stuff does need to get done. I am not willing to go to the Big Sky yet since the basketball there is ... well let's just say it's a good thing they have Montana. But the Summit does need to figure things out and Douple may be out soon.
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Post by yotelover on May 9, 2013 14:51:55 GMT -6
I have barely been posting so it's not like I am dominating this board as of late. Carrying on...It's not always THAT you lose but WHO you lose. Oral Roberts and Oakland were very respected and competitive programs that really boosted the overall stature of the Summit. Before the Dakota's existed in the Summit those two programs were the forces in men's basketball. We can either cry about it at USD or be part of the sollution as far as where the path should go from here. Of course it takes the administration to be on board but here are my ideas as far as what should be done. I think one of two things should happen as follows and neither involved continuing in the Summit without a real plan in place to continue it and/or strengthen it. 2. I will start with option 2 first. Come back with our Coyote tails between our legs and beg that the Big Sky reconsiders and takes us in. I think we would be a good fit in the Big Sky whether The Dakota U's would be a part of it or not. 1. Be a driving force to form a power mid major conference with football and basketball membership mandatory. None of this "rely on trying to figure out every other week how the MVFC and Summit can both continue to co exist" with the Summit having a 200/100 blood pressure and a pulse that is about to flatline. I would think some of the Valley all sports programs could be convinced to do this because of stability. West UND NDSU SDSU USD UND UNC East Western Illinois Northern Iowa Missouri State Indiana State Illinois State Southern Illinois This divides the conference into 2 divisions for football and still allows for a full round robin for all other sports. In basketball scheduling is difficult so I wouldn't mind the 22 auto games every year. I also think for basketball the conference easily rivals the Valley. Really how do these schools say no to this. Stability and an all sports all encompassing conference. The east schools have plenty of membership and the west schools have plenty of membership. The basketball tourney could be held in Sioux Falls every other year and somewhere out east every other year. All teams get a fair shake having the tourney fairly close to home. The only question, what do we name the new conference? Yeah, he hasn't been posting that much lately, and it's not like his ideas on this are that crazy, honestly. While I don't totally agree, I am not ready to go into panic mood, but stuff does need to get done. I am not willing to go to the Big Sky yet since the basketball there is ... well let's just say it's a good thing they have Montana. But the Summit does need to figure things out and Douple may be out soon. The cornhuskers will never let UNO add football. And the MVC basketball schools will never leave the MVC to form a new conference. So coyotefans dream conference is just that a dream.
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Post by GoYotes on May 9, 2013 16:25:56 GMT -6
A stable Summit is needed for a stable MVFC. Would the MVC members of the MVFC be able to convince the MVC to enter into a scheduling agreement with the Summit giving every Summit team 3 - 4 games annually against MVC teams on a home and home basis. This might be the incentive some teams need to stay in (or join) the Summit.
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Post by bincitysioux on May 10, 2013 0:21:40 GMT -6
It is plausible that UND would consider the Summit under the right conditions. IMO, those conditions would be: 1) The resignation of Commissioner Tom Douple 2) Guaranteed to membership to a football conference that has access to the FCS Playoffs 3) Montana and Montana St. cutting ties with North Dakota either due to conference realignment or by one or both of them moving to FBS I don't think it is out of whack for UNC to consider it as well, especially if DU and AFA are already in the conference. I don't believe UNC would consider the Summit, ever. They were on-again, off-again members of the NCC, and were first NCC team that wanted to move to DI. Obviously they were not content with a Midwestern-based league. Denver won't be in the Summit for more than two seasons, if that. What is the Air Force talk? Air Force in the Summit?
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Post by Yote 53 on May 10, 2013 7:25:13 GMT -6
Air Force is said to be looking for a conference to park their non-revenue sports.
Why do you think DU is a 2yr memeber only? They were bounced from the Sun Belt. Left the WAC because it is junk. What other options do they have? The MWC? The WCC? If the WCC was an option they would be there by now.
Bringing in AFA would assist in solidifying DU. Maybe UNC will never join the Summit ,but AFA helps solidify the western front.
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Post by flashtaco on May 10, 2013 9:31:13 GMT -6
Why would USD and the SU's want to go to a 16 team BSC football/basketball conference? The Summit will find a team or two. Will they be perfect? More than likely not but the MVFC as currently constructed is a much better product on the field and for the student-athlete than the BSC. The Summit with adding any team in the country that has baseball is a much better product on the field and for the student-athlete than the BSC. If the Montana's want to discuss a possible new conference with the Dakota's then I might change my tune. Other than that no thanks to the BSC.
The NCHC/BSC/American Sky/WAC affiliations are a good fit for UND and I wish you the best. The MVFC/Summit affilations are a great fit for SU's and USD.
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Post by kulawjack on May 10, 2013 9:57:33 GMT -6
Why would USD and the SU's want to go to a 16 team BSC football/basketball conference? The Summit will find a team or two. Will they be perfect? More than likely not but the MVFC as currently constructed is a much better product on the field and for the student-athlete than the BSC. The Summit with adding any team in the country that has baseball is a much better product on the field and for the student-athlete than the BSC. If the Montana's want to discuss a possible new conference with the Dakota's then I might change my tune. Other than that no thanks to the BSC. The NCHC/BSC/American Sky/WAC affiliations are a good fit for UND and I wish you the best. The MVFC/Summit affilations are a great fit for SU's and USD. Here here!
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jackjd
Senior Member
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Post by jackjd on May 10, 2013 12:22:02 GMT -6
I note that bincitysioux has posted on this message board and NDSU's and SDSU's boards in the past couple of days. Just doing some trolling and pot-stirring...I think his posts on the XDSU boards were identical.
I'd consider being in a conference with UND but I have little interest in having to have any association with some of their "fans".
Fortunately for UND, bincitysioux is far from a spokesman for UND and its athletic programs.
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Post by kulawjack on May 10, 2013 13:13:18 GMT -6
I note that bincitysioux has posted on this message board and NDSU's and SDSU's boards in the past couple of days. Just doing some trolling and pot-stirring...I think his posts on the XDSU boards were identical. I'd consider being in a conference with UND but I have little interest in having to have any association with some of their "fans". Fortunately for UND, bincitysioux is far from a spokesman for UND and its athletic programs. I agree with all of this.
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fssd
Freshman Member
Posts: 58
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Post by fssd on May 11, 2013 7:10:25 GMT -6
Why would USD and the SU's want to go to a 16 team BSC football/basketball conference? I agree a 16 team BSC would be too large and if it happened you would see a split much like what happened with the WAC and the formation of the Mountain West / WAC. The Mountain West got the better end of the deal. BYU and other Mountain West schools were able to shed the schools they did not like. Which makes you wonder if this does happen is that part of the end goal for the schools joining together. A conference with the following schools would be interesting as a destination conference: NDSU, SDSU, UND, USD, UM, MSU, UNC, UI maybe ISU, UNO and Denver to give the flagship schools anchor markets of Denver and Omaha. much better product on the field and for the student-athlete than the BSC. Summit vs Big Sky I don't understand the Summit is better than the Big Sky conference talk. In general Montana and Weber have been the top schools in basketball for the Big Sky. But, UNC and Portland St have had very recent NCAA births. So, the conference is starting to build depth. IMO - Weber St is head and shoulders better than any school in either the Summit or Big Sky. Weber St. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weber_State_Wildcats_men%27s_basketball14 NCAA bids - 6-15 NCAA record Comparison: Entire Summit League/Mid Con history - 7-28 NCAA record ORU - 5 bids - 2-5 NCAA record Oakland - 3 bids - 0-3 The current NBA rookie of the year is Damian Lillard who played in the Big Sky at Weber St. Can you image the chatter from NDSU or SDSU if Woodside or Nate were drafted much less "rookie of the year" This year after losing Lillard - CIT runner-up beating Cal Poly, Air Force, Oral Roberts and UNI before losing to East Carolina. Women's basketball - Big Sky is much better than Summit. I am not saying SDSU/USD do not have nice programs. But, Big Sky 3 top 100 and 6 top 150 schools this year. Summit has 1 top 100 and 2 top 150 schools this year. www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-women/d1/ncaa_womens_basketball_rpiTrack and Field - NDSU and USD would compete but the Summit does not have the depth of the Big Sky. The Big Sky has 7 mens/4 womens regional ranked schools. Summit 1 mens /2 womens. www.ustfccca.org/assets/rankings/div1/2013-otf/NCAAD1_2013_outWk6_TF_RegionalIndexTop15.pdfFootball - Big Sky / MVFC very comparable ... To be honest do not know much about the other sports. I am a football/basketball/TF/baseball guy - those are the sports that I follow. But, the talk about the Summit/MVFC being so much better than the Big Sky just does not make sense. Don't let your hate of UND cloud your judgment. Just hate on UND - I am fine with that..
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fssd
Freshman Member
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Post by fssd on May 11, 2013 7:44:19 GMT -6
Getting back to the thread - hate to see Oakland go. It puts the SL in a tough spot. But, I do believe that they will be fine. I am not sure that UND would join the SL because football would need a home. Big Sky is not going to let UND be a football only school and MVFC is not going to allow UND in the door.
To be honest, I really don't see UND joining the SL because the SL is not the end goal for NDSU or SDSU. So, why join a conference to be with the other Dakota schools when they are looking to leave. Both ADs at xDSU are on record saying other conferences are the end goal.
If the SL became the long term goal (ie 20 years or more and started Summit Football) I believe that UND would look at joining but it would need assurances that the Dakota schools would remain together.
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