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Post by gopheryote on Mar 16, 2016 10:24:45 GMT -6
I think a real concept to be considered - by both fan bases - is the difference between a 'good team' and a 'good tournament team', as they are obviously not the same thing. It is fair to say that the rabbits have been a good tournament team (SL, anyway), but have only won the regular season title 4 times in their current SLT run of 7 of 8. The Yotes have been a good team (consecutive regular seaon titles), but tourney play is different (differnet style of officiating, differnet atmosphere, different pressure, etc.). Actually, as I write that, it makes me wonder more about how important that home-game-environment feel may really be for the rabbits success in SLT - both men's and women's. They tend to beat teams that are better than them to win the tourney...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2016 13:26:37 GMT -6
I think its fair to say the Jacks are good team and a great tournament team. I believe SDSU have finished in the top 3 every year in the regular season since going D1. What team have the Jacks beat that are better than them in the Summit Tournament? The only game I can think of is when SDSU men upset ORU a few years back in the 1st round. Other than that, there hasn't been any upsets that I can think of.
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Post by fightsd on Mar 16, 2016 13:59:11 GMT -6
I think its fair to say the Jacks are good team and a great tournament team. I believe SDSU have finished in the top 3 every year in the regular season since going D1. What team have the Jacks beat that are better than them in the Summit Tournament? The only game I can think of is when SDSU men upset ORU a few years back in the 1st round. Other than that, there hasn't been any upsets that I can think of. Pretty fair to say USD was the better team in the women's tournament this year....
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2016 14:24:51 GMT -6
I think its fair to say the Jacks are good team and a great tournament team. I believe SDSU have finished in the top 3 every year in the regular season since going D1. What team have the Jacks beat that are better than them in the Summit Tournament? The only game I can think of is when SDSU men upset ORU a few years back in the 1st round. Other than that, there hasn't been any upsets that I can think of. Pretty fair to say USD was the better team in the women's tournament this year.... I think USD was the better team going into the tournament. SDSU arguably played their best basketball since the beginning of the season during the SLT. USD ended up +4 in terms of points against the Jacks this year. To me, that is not considered an upset.
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Post by gopheryote on Mar 16, 2016 14:31:22 GMT -6
I think its fair to say the Jacks are good team and a great tournament team. I believe SDSU have finished in the top 3 every year in the regular season since going D1. What team have the Jacks beat that are better than them in the Summit Tournament? The only game I can think of is when SDSU men upset ORU a few years back in the 1st round. Other than that, there hasn't been any upsets that I can think of. Pretty fair to say USD was the better team in the women's tournament this year.... Yeah - I'm defining the 'better team' as the team who wins an outright conference title, which takes being 'better' over a period of time against the same opponents. I realize on the men's side it is a bit different - the first SLT win was when the best team (a dominant ORU team, I believe) was upset in the semi's by WIU, and the rabbits tied for the regular season title the other 2 years. But this is in a WBB thread, so... But more to the point of my post, it appears that many people (fans & media, anyway) often make the leap/mistake that says either a) the best team will win the tourney; or b) the team who wins the tourney must be the best team. I'm not sure anything should be done different by USD for recruiting to win a tourney, but there may be some tweaks to style that can win a tourney at the expense of a regular season title (a physical defense vs. flowing offense comes to mind).
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Post by gopheryote on Mar 16, 2016 14:34:33 GMT -6
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Post by coyotecrazie5 on Mar 16, 2016 15:34:21 GMT -6
Jacks and Yotes women's teams were very close this season, the same as the last few years. Yotes may have won the regular season, but they were hard fought contests. It was a lot of fun to watch both of their seasons. Hopefully they can both make the tourney in upcoming years as I think they both had deserving teams to do so.
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Post by coyote70 on Mar 16, 2016 17:55:46 GMT -6
One thing: winning the Summit League Conference (regular season) for both the men and women doesn't mean that much does it? I don't believe it gets you much in terms of "bragging rights" and unless you're in a top conference, if you lose the conference tournament, you're done.
I don't think I'm being too cynical in stating that money is the cause for this. How long will Summit teams other than NDSU and the two SD schools go along with having the tournament in Sioux Falls?
I for one - and count me in the extreme minority - would have the conference tournament in the facility whose team won the regular season. It's something to play for.
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feared
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Post by feared on Mar 16, 2016 21:42:23 GMT -6
One thing: winning the Summit League Conference (regular season) for both the men and women doesn't mean that much does it? I don't believe it gets you much in terms of "bragging rights" and unless you're in a top conference, if you lose the conference tournament, you're done. I don't think I'm being too cynical in stating that money is the cause for this. How long will Summit teams other than NDSU and the two SD schools go along with having the tournament in Sioux Falls? I for one - and count me in the extreme minority - would have the conference tournament in the facility whose team won the regular season. It's something to play for. From a planning standpoint you just can't do that. It's remarkable how much work goes into hosting a conference tournament. They started planning for next year's SL Tournament before this year's.
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Post by Coyote Fan on Mar 16, 2016 23:29:22 GMT -6
There is no question that money and recognition are a HUGE factor in the decision making when it comes to where the conference tourney is held. There just simply isn't a location anywhere in the Summit footprint that is a better location then Sioux Falls right now and that may never change. It is a VERY big deal how popular the Women's tourney is in Sioux Falls. I don't think there is a conference anywhere in the country where the Women's tourney comes as close in terms of general interest as the Men's tourney as is the case in the Summit League. The Women's programs at USD and especially SDSU are a feather in the cap of the Summit League. The facility is world class. The Premier Center was nominated for an award by one of the country music award shows for the best mid sized arena in the nation. It was among 4 other finalists I believe. The Summit League seems to "get it" when it comes to Sioux Falls and the jewel that it is for an overall sports town and regional epicenter. Most leagues are into the size of the market but if a market has a team like IUPUI in it where the majority of the town could care less than what good is a big market. It's not the size of the market that matters, it's the interest in the market and Sioux Falls cares alot about things like the Summit Tourney and other non major sports leagues. Admittedly SDSU fans make up a good portion of that interest but there are still nice pockets of other's teams fans that made the trip as well. If it's an event people will travel to go to it.
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Post by sdyotefan75 on Mar 17, 2016 5:24:05 GMT -6
One thing: winning the Summit League Conference (regular season) for both the men and women doesn't mean that much does it? I don't believe it gets you much in terms of "bragging rights" and unless you're in a top conference, if you lose the conference tournament, you're done. I don't think I'm being too cynical in stating that money is the cause for this. How long will Summit teams other than NDSU and the two SD schools go along with having the tournament in Sioux Falls? I for one - and count me in the extreme minority - would have the conference tournament in the facility whose team won the regular season. It's something to play for. Rather than the conference champ host all the games, have 1-4 seeds host the first round then do a final four at the home of the highest seed remaining. So if the top seed gets knocked off, they wouldnt be the host.
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Post by golfingyote on Mar 17, 2016 6:32:24 GMT -6
The tournament seems to be working pretty well the way it is. I mean we did have 3000 more people at our womens championship than any power 5 conference and 28,000 people attend the womens games. IF its not broke dont fix it???
Better question to ask is would the yotes have received fair consideration from the committee had we not lost those first 2 ganes without Seekamp? Honestly, we should have at least been in the discussion even with those 2 losses. The committees for both mens and womens seem to be a little brain dead when it comes to selecting and placing teams. Im not sure whey they didnt at least put SDSU in the sioux falls region. They would have been a long shot to make it anyway, but it would have created an interesting story line and buzz.
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Post by yoteforever on Mar 17, 2016 6:32:31 GMT -6
On paper it sounds good to do what has been suggested, and that is reward the regular season champ by hosting, but I don't think that's practical. There is a lot of work and preparation going into the tournament, and logistically I think it would be a nightmare to pull it off. Theres no way Vermillion or Brookings could host a 3-4 day tournament based on hotel rooms alone. Not only for teams, but for fans as well. It would also stress the local restaurant/food catering part of it as well. I do believe there are conferences that do have the upper half host the first round games, and although it would be more feasible to pull off, the only real teams it would help would be 3 and 4 seeds, as a 1 and 2 seed are not likely to lose a first round game. I know anything is feasible, but highly unlikely.
The Big 12 has been in 3 cities that I can think of. Oklahoma City, Dallas, no Kansas City. And there is absolutely no question Kansas City is to the Big 12 what Sioux Falls is to the Summit. Kansas, Kansas State, and Iowa State flood KC and spend a lot of dollars. And KC, like SF, does a great job in hosting the tournament. It's huge. Outside the arena is one big party and tailgate. They know how to do it. Attendance in OKC and Dallas was never as good, and lacked the enthusiasm. The only other logical place to host would be Indianapolis ( for IPFW and IUPUI ), and given the Big 10 is there, and all the motel rooms taken up my media people alone, I don't think Indy would want them.
To me, the Summit has the best situation going. And honestly, USD fans have not embraced the tournament like the Jacks, no certainly don't support it like the Jacks. As a fan base, we've had our chance to buy up tickets and get involved, but we don't. And I know I'm preaching to the choir with this group of fans, but unless the Coyote fan base has a total change of heart in how they support athletics, we will struggle permanently. We must get more fans enthusiastic about backing the U. I've said this a number of times, and I mean it, it's a blast to get behind our teams and follow them. There's a lot of social interaction with old friends and classmates, new friends, and the like. Football, basketball ( men's and women's ). It's just plain fun. With the new arena coming, you can literally treat it like going out to eat no getting to watch a game for little money.
If the tournament is a problem for other teams, so be it. Right now the state of South Dakota is footing the bill ( and paying for it quite nicely ) along with some NDSU. Why argue with success? My only hope is the Coyote fan BASE jump on board as well. Those not going are missing out.
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Post by sdyotefan on Mar 17, 2016 11:09:46 GMT -6
I have always said that a conference champion should get any bids to national tournaments. The other teams nationwide could play in preliminary conference tournaments for additional at large bid consideration. The NCAA has post season conference tournaments set up the way they are for one reason--money!! And as usual money trumps logic.
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Post by yote14 on Mar 17, 2016 11:14:59 GMT -6
One thing: winning the Summit League Conference (regular season) for both the men and women doesn't mean that much does it? I don't believe it gets you much in terms of "bragging rights" and unless you're in a top conference, if you lose the conference tournament, you're done. I don't think I'm being too cynical in stating that money is the cause for this. How long will Summit teams other than NDSU and the two SD schools go along with having the tournament in Sioux Falls? I for one - and count me in the extreme minority - would have the conference tournament in the facility whose team won the regular season. It's something to play for. I agree all small schools look at the only thing that matters is winning the conference tourney because its the only way you get to the NCAA tourney. However, USD and SDSU have absolutely no shot at winning a national championship in basketball. Its great to make the national tourney for exposure but winning a couple games there is best case scenario.
They have a better shot at winning the NIT. Still not a huge one but..... Does it mean as much, no. The regular season conference champion gets an auto bid into the NIT if they do not win the conference tournament so the regular season does mean something other than bragging rights.
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