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Post by yoteforever on Feb 19, 2017 3:12:51 GMT -6
Mike Daum took more than half of his team's shots. He shot 48% while his teammates shot 59% from the field. I am more shocked that a coach would let one guy take more than half of his team's shots than the 51 points. I'm sure there are some advanced metrics that will show this isn't a particularly impressive performance. Really reminds me of Grinnell College in Iowa where they would let a guy score 89 points on 55 shots while shooting less than 50% from the field. It's more a bastardization of the game than an incredible feat. Wow. That's incredibly stupid even for you jackl, Personal attacks of this magnitude aren't acceptable. This is smack in a non smack forum, plus it's very personal. I have zero issue with debating and good natured ribbing, but your comment was neither. Please refrain from this in the future and let's continue spirited debate without the insults.
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Post by jackfan86 on Feb 19, 2017 17:54:41 GMT -6
Mike Daum took more than half of his team's shots. He shot 48% while his teammates shot 59% from the field. I am more shocked that a coach would let one guy take more than half of his team's shots than the 51 points. I'm sure there are some advanced metrics that will show this isn't a particularly impressive performance. Really reminds me of Grinnell College in Iowa where they would let a guy score 89 points on 55 shots while shooting less than 50% from the field. It's more a bastardization of the game than an incredible feat. He shot 18 of those from the 3 point line. His shooting percentages were pretty efficient. 7/11 from 2, 7/18 from 3 and 1617 from the stripe. I think that's a pretty efficient game. That being said, I thought he was shooting much better in first game against IPFW and this was certainly not his most efficient game. He took some not so great shots down the stretch cause I literally think he was too tired to drive to the hole. He's so much better offensively than anyone else on the team, so yes, he gets free reign to shoot pretty much at will.
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Post by Coyote Fan on Feb 19, 2017 18:12:26 GMT -6
More good news for the Coyotes. IUPUI beat the Pioneers in Denver so the Coyotes have officially clinched the #2 seed. Time to make your reservations for Saturday night at the Premier Center.
At this point I think the teams that have the best chance in the tourney are USD, NDSU and SDSU. The Bison may still be slight favorites because of their experience. The Coyotes will have a crowd advantage over them and the Jacks will have a crowd advantage over everyone. That makes for 3 teams that definitely have a punchers chance. The Jacks may be the least likely team to be able to win 3 in a row so I would put them at #3. USD and NDSU are pretty much a co favorite at this point.
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Post by Yotes on Feb 19, 2017 18:24:26 GMT -6
Mike Daum took more than half of his team's shots. He shot 48% while his teammates shot 59% from the field. I am more shocked that a coach would let one guy take more than half of his team's shots than the 51 points. I'm sure there are some advanced metrics that will show this isn't a particularly impressive performance. Really reminds me of Grinnell College in Iowa where they would let a guy score 89 points on 55 shots while shooting less than 50% from the field. It's more a bastardization of the game than an incredible feat. He shot 18 of those from the 3 point line. His shooting percentages were pretty efficient. 7/11 from 2, 7/18 from 3 and 1617 from the stripe. I think that's a pretty efficient game. That being said, I thought he was shooting much better in first game against IPFW and this was certainly not his most efficient game. He took some not so great shots down the stretch cause I literally think he was too tired to drive to the hole. He's so much better offensively than anyone else on the team, so yes, he gets free reign to shoot pretty much at will. But is it efficient when your teammates are shooting more than 10% better than you are? I didn't watch the game, and this does disregard the points created at the free throw line, but it sounds like the other 4 guys were probably pretty open if they shot nearly 60% from the field.
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Post by Coyote Fan on Feb 20, 2017 0:21:17 GMT -6
We can argue all we want about Daum's efficiency but the fact remains that of any team in the league the Jacks have improved the most from the beginning to the year until now. They have won 5 of their last 7 and beat Omaha and IPFW on the road and had the streaking Coyotes on the ropes in their house. If teams didn't have to worry about Daum and could play them straight up I don't think they would win 5 Summit games. They are extremely fortune to have landed him on their team. Otz does deserve credit for this as well as he has had to do plenty of creative coaching to have this team playing as well as they are now.
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Post by jackfan86 on Feb 20, 2017 9:05:10 GMT -6
He shot 18 of those from the 3 point line. His shooting percentages were pretty efficient. 7/11 from 2, 7/18 from 3 and 1617 from the stripe. I think that's a pretty efficient game. That being said, I thought he was shooting much better in first game against IPFW and this was certainly not his most efficient game. He took some not so great shots down the stretch cause I literally think he was too tired to drive to the hole. He's so much better offensively than anyone else on the team, so yes, he gets free reign to shoot pretty much at will. But is it efficient when your teammates are shooting more than 10% better than you are? I didn't watch the game, and this does disregard the points created at the free throw line, but it sounds like the other 4 guys were probably pretty open if they shot nearly 60% from the field. On that team no player or coach is at all concerned that he takes that many shots. It is what it is. They rely heavily on him for offense.
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Post by coyotecrazie5 on Feb 20, 2017 10:06:56 GMT -6
Great game for Damm. That guy can create his own shot very well. I did not watch the game, but did FW double him? I do know FW does not have a great interior defense. You have to force their gaurds to make shots, and unless Telly has the game of his life they are beatable.
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Post by jackfan86 on Feb 20, 2017 11:45:48 GMT -6
Great game for Damm. That guy can create his own shot very well. I did not watch the game, but did FW double him? I do know FW does not have a great interior defense. You have to force their gaurds to make shots, and unless Telly has the game of his life they are beatable. They doubled him when he was in the post...along with most of the rest of the defense staring at him and no the guy they were guarding. They kept giving him open looks from 3 until about halfway through second half. They played him tighter out there then. That's when I thought he would pump fake and drive but he didn't. He seemed tired. IPFW is a poor defensive team. That played a huge role in his 51 points.
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Post by thumper76 on Feb 20, 2017 15:09:33 GMT -6
But is it efficient when your teammates are shooting more than 10% better than you are? I didn't watch the game, and this does disregard the points created at the free throw line, but it sounds like the other 4 guys were probably pretty open if they shot nearly 60% from the field. Are we talking about the same guy here? Cause living in Fargo I listen to their radio station and what I've heard many times on there is just how efficient Daum is at scoring for the amount of shots he takes. I mean, I get it, you hate SDSU and I'm sure the fact that Daum got us on SportCenter during the yotes best year probably burns your ass, but to discount that performance as selfish or less than impressive is kinda dumb.
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Post by jackl on Feb 20, 2017 16:22:35 GMT -6
Wow. That's incredibly stupid even for you jackl, Personal attacks of this magnitude aren't acceptable. This is smack in a non smack forum, plus it's very personal. I have zero issue with debating and good natured ribbing, but your comment was neither. Please refrain from this in the future and let's continue spirited debate without the insults. Actually I was attacking his post but understood, I'll refrain in the future.
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Post by Yotes on Feb 20, 2017 16:22:52 GMT -6
But is it efficient when your teammates are shooting more than 10% better than you are? I didn't watch the game, and this does disregard the points created at the free throw line, but it sounds like the other 4 guys were probably pretty open if they shot nearly 60% from the field. Are we talking about the same guy here? Cause living in Fargo I listen to their radio station and what I've heard many times on there is just how efficient Daum is at scoring for the amount of shots he takes. I mean, I get it, you hate SDSU and I'm sure the fact that Daum got us on SportCenter during the yotes best year probably burns your ass, but to discount that performance as selfish or less than impressive is kinda dumb. Not one person has agreed with me, so the consensus is definitely on your side, but I still contend that scoring 35 points from the field on 29 attempts isn't very efficient. 51 points is a huge number, but given the context of the situation it isn't as impressive as it seems. His teammates scored 36 points from the field on 27 attempts. Neither team must have felt like playing defense and when your entire offense goes through one guy he is going to rack it up. Daum still wins MVP. He is still the best player in the league. His numbers would be even higher if he wasn't constantly subject to the double team. I just don't think he is that efficient given the number of attempts he gets (plus there is the high turnover rate and complete absence of guarding people).
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Post by jackl on Feb 20, 2017 16:39:27 GMT -6
Mike Daum took more than half of his team's shots. He shot 48% while his teammates shot 59% from the field. I am more shocked that a coach would let one guy take more than half of his team's shots than the 51 points. I'm sure there are some advanced metrics that will show this isn't a particularly impressive performance. Really reminds me of Grinnell College in Iowa where they would let a guy score 89 points on 55 shots while shooting less than 50% from the field. It's more a bastardization of the game than an incredible feat. I'll try again. Look closer. At what point did you expect our coach to stop Daum from shooting? Daum missed his last 4 shots which obviously caused his percentage to drop. Before those he was sitting about 56% with a little over half the shots taken. The rest of the team was about the same. After Daum missed the first one, did you expect TJ to burn his last timeout and tell Mike his percentage was lower than the rest of the teams so please stop shooting? Absurd. Also, in your haste to discredit Daum and State, you ignored his 16-17 from the free throw line. That's the very definition if being efficient.
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Post by coyotecrazie5 on Feb 20, 2017 16:53:35 GMT -6
He just said he is the best player in the league, move on.
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Post by jackl on Feb 20, 2017 17:05:02 GMT -6
He just said he is the best player in the league, move on. Hey crazie! How are ya? I was interrupted part way through typing that and didn't see his surrender post. Sorry
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Post by Yotes on Feb 20, 2017 17:26:26 GMT -6
Mike Daum took more than half of his team's shots. He shot 48% while his teammates shot 59% from the field. I am more shocked that a coach would let one guy take more than half of his team's shots than the 51 points. I'm sure there are some advanced metrics that will show this isn't a particularly impressive performance. Really reminds me of Grinnell College in Iowa where they would let a guy score 89 points on 55 shots while shooting less than 50% from the field. It's more a bastardization of the game than an incredible feat. I'll try again. Look closer. At what point did you expect our coach to stop Daum from shooting? Daum missed his last 4 shots which obviously caused his percentage to drop. Before those he was sitting about 56% with a little over half the shots taken. The rest of the team was about the same. After Daum missed the first one, did you expect TJ to burn his last timeout and tell Mike his percentage was lower than the rest of the teams so please stop shooting? Absurd. Also, in your haste to discredit Daum and State, you ignored his 16-17 from the free throw line. That's the very definition if being efficient. At the end of the game you are usually going to put the ball in the hands of your best player. You count on your best to shine in clutch situations. I'm looking at the complete effort though. His free throw shooting is incredibly efficient and the numbers I pose do ignore that. I can't find a Points per Possession state online, so I'm going to try and figure that one out here: Breaking down the numbers I can see he had 29 attempts from the field, 9 trips to the free throw line, and 2 turnovers, making for 40 possessions. That comes out to 1.275 points per possession. Not a bad mark at all, but not insane. We don't get a great sample size from any of Daum's teammates individually, since it appears the other 7 guys combined for 43 possessions using the same FGA, trips to the FT line, and turnovers methodology, but we have PPP ranging from Tellinghuisen's 0.75 to Flatten's 2 with a teammate total of 1.07. Again, I don't think we have a great sample size on any of them to make a good comparison between Daum's efficiency and that of any of his individual teammates. I would like to compare it to the IPFW players who broke double digits on their FGA. Again, looking at possessions based on FGA, trips to the free throw line (excluding "and one's"), and turnovers to generate a PPP, Calhoun had 1.2, Scott had 1.29, Konchar had 1.57, then Evans is down at 0.83 with his poor night from the field. If you can find a flaw in this statistic I made up please let me know, it's the best way I could think of to calculate offensive efficiency of a player, but my numbers don't paint Daum as having the unthinkably great type of game that some are describing it as.
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