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Post by Coyote Fan on Jul 11, 2017 11:58:08 GMT -6
Just let the Summit League fall apart. If Minot State or UMKC get in the Summit please find the nearest exit door.
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Post by golfingyote on Jul 11, 2017 12:16:36 GMT -6
The Minot State post was the first and only I read...
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Post by Yotes on Jul 11, 2017 18:29:00 GMT -6
Read through 20 pages of that thread. My takeaway, the Summit is doomed. The attractive teams to annex are unrealistic, the realistic teams are unattractive, and anyone who joins would rather be somewhere else. Someone floated the idea of sponsoring football with the assumption that the non-Summit schools in the MVFC would follow as affiliate members. That might resolve the baseball issue but wouldn't actually improve the health of the league.
I'm convinced we need to find a way to unite with our neighbors to the west. Maybe the Big Sky would be willing to split into East/West divisions. The Big Sky East sounds like a far more attractive proposition than sitting through the Summit's slow demise.
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Post by Yote 53 on Jul 11, 2017 18:46:22 GMT -6
So, we should have joined the Big Sky from the beginning? That's the way it looks now. I have no idea why UND is joining the Summit now. No idea.
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Post by kiyoat on Jul 12, 2017 8:23:35 GMT -6
Keep in mind that the other BBS thread, while fun to read, has some contributors that know very little about the Summit League or the former NCC schools. There are a few posters there that are SDSU, NDSU, UND, and Denver fans, but for the most part it is other schools.
Having outsiders disparage North and South Dakota's climate/geography/competitiveness without knowing all the facts is nothing new. We should all be used to that by now.
As long as we continue in our current trajectory, we will keep getting stronger. We just have to make sure we are adding schools that are financially stable enough to field enough teams to maintain our auto-bid. If they are geographically in the footprint, that is a bonus and adds stability. Competitiveness is also a bonus for RPI, but doesn't necessarily add stability IMO.
UMKC: the geography is great, finances and competitiveness not good = fine for the short-term, but I could see them falling to DII at some point.
Northern Colorado: Geography is good, finances are good enough to field football and baseball, not sure they are very competitive. = If they are interested, I see them as great for stability long-term.
Grand Canyon/ NMSU: Geography is terrible, finances and competitiveness are great = great short-term addition, would probably try to get into the Mt West with some success. I don't see that as a problem.
D-2 privates Lindenwood and Augustana: Geography is great for both, finances are great (both private), competitiveness is a question mark, but I think they are both rising stars like Northern Kentucky. Both are highly competitive in D2. Long-term stability options.
D-2 Publics St. Cloud/Duluth/Mankato: Geography is great, finances might be an issue. They are moderately successful in D2. These schools may have to drop football (maybe baseball too) to go D-1, but all of them are already D-1 Hockey schools that would strengthen ties with Denver, UNO and UND immediately, even with the waiting period. Long-term stability.
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Post by GoYotes on Jul 12, 2017 8:53:58 GMT -6
Don't rule out some of western Horizon League schools returning to the Summit League.
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Post by yote14 on Jul 12, 2017 10:21:53 GMT -6
I was bored at work yesterday so I read through a lot of the thread.
The idea of Northern Colorado, SIU-E, and Eastern Illinois who is already an affiliate member of the Summit sounded pretty good to me. Have the Summit start football and eliminate the MVFC which all of the MVC hate anyways. Any of them that wish to be affiliate members of the summit for football are more than welcome to do so. The MVC has zero respect for the Dakota schools so the sooner we break away the better. The few MVC schools in the MVFC would have no choice but to join the Summit as affiliate members for football. And if they don't who cares. Take care of ourselves first just like the MVC and cocky Northern Iowa fans are wanting.
I would love the proposed Montana's conference but I just do not see that happening. They would not leave a great situation like they have so to me its not even worth talking about. Why do we want higher travel costs by getting into the Big Sky East and going to western Montana and Idaho?
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Post by Yote 53 on Jul 12, 2017 10:50:55 GMT -6
IMO, the Montanas, Idaho, EWU + the Dakota 4 is the only viable option for the future. Why? Because we are peer schools and all speak the same language. It would be a solid long-term partnership. Now, those schools have to see it the same way otherwise there is no reason for them to leave the Big Sky. They just might do it if it was a big enough idea and they feel they are outgrowing the Big Sky. The BSC has it's share of dregs holding those top schools back.
Augustana? Forget that idea. Terrible idea. Why not ask Morningside if they want to move up to D1? You have USD and SDSU jockeying for position to capture the Sioux Falls market and you want to throw Augie into the mix? Not a good idea.
In the short run, for the Summit the best idea to replace IPFW when they eventually leave is to add NMSU. UMKC can fold, for all I care.
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Post by yote14 on Jul 12, 2017 14:40:32 GMT -6
I do not disagree with you Yote53 that those schools mindsets work best with ours long term. What worries me about partnering with the Montana's and Idaho's of the world and moving away from schools like Western Illinois, Eastern Illinois, SIU-E, etc. is that you lose your exposure in the more populated states of Illinois and Indiana for states with zero recruits to pull from in Montana and Idaho. There's a reason the Big Sky is garbage in basketball. Football would still be ok.
They may be like minded schools but I think USD gives up to much exposure and relevance in the heavily populated states to the east to recruit from moving west. I can only imagine travel is a significantly bigger headache and more expensive in Montana and Idaho compared to anywhere in Illinois.
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Post by Coyote Fan on Jul 12, 2017 17:12:24 GMT -6
Yote 53 and Yote 14,
Good points. I do think at this time the best place to be is in a conference with all sports. No more basketball/olympic sport only members. I actually think if The Dakota's and Montana's and the like joined together I believe that the Dakota's would actually elevate the Big Sky teams to a higher level in many sports. The basketball tradition is really on the upward trend for the Dak 4 of the Summit. Every programs is either staying steadily competitive or on the rise. That would hopefully raise up the other programs.
Losing the Illinois or Indiana teams may be tough for recruiting but the Illinois programs have such uncertainty with their budgets. For football anyway USD relies on states such as Texas or Colorado for many of their players so I don't know if the change in conference would dramatically change anything. For basketball it could be a little different. If the Dakota 4 joined the Big Sky and one other team as well such as Grand Canyon or New Mexico State the conference could do an even 8-8 split which could help travel for the entire conference.
Big Sky North/East (or call it the State and U division)
South Dakota South Dakota State North Dakota North Dakota State Montana Montana State Idaho Idaho State
Big Sky South/West
Eastern Washington Weber State Sacramento State Portland State Northern Colorado Northern Arizona Southern Utah New Mexico State
It doesn't have to be exactly as shown above but there could be a way to definitely minimize travel for the Western Big Sky teams. In each sport everyone plays their own division each year and plays fewer games against the cross division. I think the travel would be a bit more for the Dakota's but the stability would be nice. That would likely be the only division of a conference in the country where every school is a U or a State of a State.
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Post by Yotes on Jul 12, 2017 17:16:24 GMT -6
Is it really all that important that we are in the same conference as Illinois or Indiana schools? Our MBB team hasn't played in Texas in 4 years but we have gotten 3 recruits from there the past two years. I feel like athletes in these states are interested in USD because of proximity to home. If it helps to play games in those states we still could in the non-conference.
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Post by Coyote Fan on Jul 12, 2017 17:30:13 GMT -6
Don't rule out some of western Horizon League schools returning to the Summit League. I think with IUPUI already gone to the Horizon and IPFW likely to follow soon I think the Horizon ship has sailed and is getting farther and farther away from the western half of the Summit and I mean "farther" meaning less likely that a team would come to the Summit from that league . IUPUI leaving pretty much salted away that no Horizon teams will be coming west but stranger things have probably happened. At this point one of two things is likely to happen. Unfortunately I fear a senario for the Summit is to go into survival mode and take a school like UMKC or Augie. I really believe that if the president's had the final say which I believe they do then a merger with the Big Sky is what may happen. Whether it is to keep the Summit or Merge with another conference I think we are likely looking at a I-90 corridor or further westward expansion.
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Post by gorabbits on Jul 12, 2017 18:01:26 GMT -6
I would love to see Green Bay in particular and even Milwaukee join the Summit but agree it is not very likely. I also don't think the Montana or Idaho schools will be joining and would not be excited if they did. They do nothing to raise our RPI in football or basketball. I would love to see New Mexico State join, and if necessary let Grand Canyon in as well. Other possibilities are Little Rock and Arlington. They are the non-football Sunbelt teams. Less desirable but likely options are UMKC and Northern Colorado IMO.
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Post by gopheryote on Jul 13, 2017 6:45:13 GMT -6
I'm not sure I follow the thinking of some of these options, and hope someone can clarify? Part of the move to D1 was getting comfortable with not playing for national championships, but rather getting the chance to have a rare FGCU-ish moment on the biggest stage (FCS doesn't count, sorry Bison fans).
That said, being in a conference that was multi-bid would certainly increase the odds of getting one of those chances. But short of that, it would seem rivalries, traditions, etc., should trump most other efforts - including a solid mid-major conference of other public schools - and build a team to win the conference tourney and have a chance to make it to the Sweet 16.
Am I missing something, or is it just fun to think 'what if'?
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Post by Yote 53 on Jul 13, 2017 7:41:09 GMT -6
Summit losing teams means we are on the verge of losing autobid to the Tournament. No point being D1 if there is no access to the Tournament.
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