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Post by kiyoat on Jul 13, 2017 8:10:14 GMT -6
I think the primary goal that trumps everything is that we need to stay viable. That mainly means keeping our auto-bid. Everything else is gravy, IMO. We don't now and have never needed certain other conference members in order to stay competitive in our sports. We just need that access to the tournament.
How to protect the auto-bid?
maintain the minimum number of schools (7, I think) maintain the minimum number of sports (6 mens, 6 womens with at least 6 teams in each).
That means adding teams that support the right sports programs, and are financially stable enough to continue to support those teams. Shouldn't be that difficult. The focus is really on baseball and men's soccer, maybe men's golf? The Summit sponsoring football or hockey would help, but likely won't happen.
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Post by Yote 53 on Jul 13, 2017 9:06:40 GMT -6
It's a moot point as it appears the Dakota 4 are all moving in lock-step now. Rivalries and traditions will be maintained. The issue is how to best align the Dakota 4 with peer schools in a stable conference.
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Post by Yote 53 on Jul 13, 2017 9:10:17 GMT -6
The simplest solution to all this is for the Summit to require its members to carry either Men's soccer or baseball in order to make it viable. It's really unfair of USD and UND to complain about conference instability when we contribute to that instability by not fielding one, the other, or both of those sports. Time to bring back baseball, or offer men's soccer.
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Post by Yotes on Jul 13, 2017 17:25:10 GMT -6
The simplest solution to all this is for the Summit to require its members to carry either Men's soccer or baseball in order to make it viable. It's really unfair of USD and UND to complain about conference instability when we contribute to that instability by not fielding one, the other, or both of those sports. Time to bring back baseball, or offer men's soccer. I agree the simplest solution is to stabilize the Summit, but is it the right one? The Summit will probably exist as long as the Dakotas cling to the league. If we can't find programs that can compete with the Dakotas to join the Summit then we need to be looking elsewhere before we are in the Great West 2.0.
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Post by gopheryote on Jul 13, 2017 20:08:43 GMT -6
I think this sentiment is what I am trying to understand. Who cares if it is the 4 Dakota's and 4-6 also-rans? Isn't in our own best interest to be in a stable AND weak conference? (I don't think it will ever actually be a weak mid-major if the 4 Dakota schools are in it, BTW.) It isn't like we are trying to decide between the B1G or Great West. Isn't it either the Summit or some other version of the Summit?
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Post by Coyote Fan on Jul 13, 2017 21:10:10 GMT -6
I would hope that some day and hopefully some day rather soon that the Dakota 4 would want to be in a prestigious mid major league and one that has at least a reasonable chance to be a 2 bid league for the basketball tourney. I would think the vision would be more then just the Dakota's and 6 other UMKC's. A conference is more then just the easiest path to the NCAA tourney in basketball and it's more then just the Summit tourney being in Sioux Falls every year. I would think the schools would want a good conference if for anything else to give the fans a reason to come to home games and be excited about the competition.
USD did not build the Sanford Coyotes Sports Center to be in a conference like the Summit (being held together by the next convenient addition for it's survival) for the next 50 years. USD need to thrive and not just survive, or at least I hope that is the goal.
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Post by gopheryote on Jul 14, 2017 7:01:52 GMT -6
For reference - here are the multi-bid conferences for 2017: ACC 9, Big East 7, Big 10 7, Big 12 6, SEC 5, PAC 12 4, A-10 3, AAC 2, WCC 2
Just like in football, the scale is getting tipped more and more to be the P5 (plus the Big East) and everyone else.
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Post by kiyoat on Jul 14, 2017 7:13:57 GMT -6
For reference - here are the multi-bid conferences for 2017: ACC 9, Big East 7, Big 10 7, Big 12 6, SEC 5, PAC 12 4, A-10 3, AAC 2, WCC 2 Just like in football, the scale is getting tipped more and more to be the P5 (plus the Big East) and everyone else. Exactly. Even the MVC, that has had two bids in the past, is becoming just another 1-bid league. I've seen articles written on exactly this subject that suggest high mid-majors with multiple bids are a thing of the past. In that new reality, chasing the second bid is fruitless. Maintaining the auto-bid is what's important. For USD we already have our main historic rivalries back in the Dakota 4. Those are the games that will fill up our stadiums, along with premier OOC games.
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Post by Yote 53 on Jul 14, 2017 7:50:46 GMT -6
For reference - here are the multi-bid conferences for 2017: ACC 9, Big East 7, Big 10 7, Big 12 6, SEC 5, PAC 12 4, A-10 3, AAC 2, WCC 2 Just like in football, the scale is getting tipped more and more to be the P5 (plus the Big East) and everyone else. Exactly. Even the MVC, that has had two bids in the past, is becoming just another 1-bid league. I've seen articles written on exactly this subject that suggest high mid-majors with multiple bids are a thing of the past. In that new reality, chasing the second bid is fruitless. Maintaining the auto-bid is what's important. For USD we already have our main historic rivalries back in the Dakota 4. Those are the games that will fill up our stadiums, along with premier OOC games. Nahh, you don't lay down and accept it, you keep fighting and building the program and the conference. The goal of the Dakota 4 should be to be in a conference, whether it is the Summit or something else we build, that is the what the old Valley was. A top mid-major, multibid conference that is respected across the country. Anything less is just settling and we're in D1 for the wrong reasons.
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Post by Coyote Fan on Jul 14, 2017 8:03:18 GMT -6
Exactly. Even the MVC, that has had two bids in the past, is becoming just another 1-bid league. I've seen articles written on exactly this subject that suggest high mid-majors with multiple bids are a thing of the past. In that new reality, chasing the second bid is fruitless. Maintaining the auto-bid is what's important. For USD we already have our main historic rivalries back in the Dakota 4. Those are the games that will fill up our stadiums, along with premier OOC games. Nahh, you don't lay down and accept it, you keep fighting and building the program and the conference. The goal of the Dakota 4 should be to be in a conference, whether it is the Summit or something else we build, that is the what the old Valley was. A top mid-major, multibid conference that is respected across the country. Anything less is just settling and we're in D1 for the wrong reasons. Great post and that is exactly correct. The purpose is not just to settle for convenience but to strive for excellence.
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Post by kiyoat on Jul 14, 2017 11:06:47 GMT -6
Nahh, you don't lay down and accept it, you keep fighting and building the program and the conference. The goal of the Dakota 4 should be to be in a conference, whether it is the Summit or something else we build, that is the what the old Valley was. A top mid-major, multibid conference that is respected across the country. Anything less is just settling and we're in D1 for the wrong reasons. Great post and that is exactly correct. The purpose is not just to settle for convenience but to strive for excellence. I'm not saying we shouldn't strive for excellence. Obviously all of the Dakota 4 athletic programs have proven a commitment to improve and achieve. I'm saying we should stop looking east and west for validation and inclusion. We can achieve all of our goals without begging for inclusion in the MVC, Horizon, or Big Sky. Let them keep thinking they are superior as the Summit surpasses them one by one.
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Post by Coyote Fan on Jul 14, 2017 11:59:43 GMT -6
Great post and that is exactly correct. The purpose is not just to settle for convenience but to strive for excellence. I'm not saying we shouldn't strive for excellence. Obviously all of the Dakota 4 athletic programs have proven a commitment to improve and achieve. I'm saying we should stop looking east and west for validation and inclusion. We can achieve all of our goals without begging for inclusion in the MVC, Horizon, or Big Sky. Let them keep thinking they are superior as the Summit surpasses them one by one. Without joining with the MVC or Big Sky (won't mention the Horizon) how exactly is the Summit supposed to turn into that premier mid major league. It can be done by losing the Indiana Schools if and only if the correct schools are chosen as replacements but the Summit is going nowhere if the replacements are UMKC level programs. Basketball only schools are going to do nothing but delay the ultimate goal of getting into an all sports conference without having to rely on the politics of other conferences for our health. When we had Augie in the NCC they were playing at the same level of football. I don't want them in a conference that does not include football. Either that or USD can just simply drop football and be a happy member of the Summit League. Since that will never fly at USD then the Summit has served it's purpose.
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Post by gopheryote on Jul 14, 2017 12:33:50 GMT -6
Without joining with the MVC or Big Sky (won't mention the Horizon) how exactly is the Summit supposed to turn into that premier mid major league. It can be done by losing the Indiana Schools if and only if the correct schools are chosen as replacements but the Summit is going nowhere if the replacements are UMKC level programs. Basketball only schools are going to do nothing but delay the ultimate goal of getting into an all sports conference without having to rely on the politics of other conferences for our health. When we had Augie in the NCC they were playing at the same level of football. I don't want them in a conference that does not include football. Either that or USD can just simply drop football and be a happy member of the Summit League. Since that will never fly at USD then the Summit has served it's purpose. If the Yotes make the Sweet 16 the next two years, the Summit is automatically a 'premier mid major league.' (And I'm certain no one will complain during the Sweet 16 week about having a few lousy teams in the conference.) In this day and age, conferences are judged by the teams at the top, not how deep the bottom 1/3 was that year.
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Post by Coyote Fan on Jul 14, 2017 14:03:29 GMT -6
Gonzaga's conference has never been mistaken for a good conference so there is more to it then just the top. St. Mary's isn't bad but after that the conference is junk.
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larobe
Sophomore Member
Posts: 179
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Post by larobe on Jul 14, 2017 18:36:00 GMT -6
For reference - here are the multi-bid conferences for 2017: ACC 9, Big East 7, Big 10 7, Big 12 6, SEC 5, PAC 12 4, A-10 3, AAC 2, WCC 2 Just like in football, the scale is getting tipped more and more to be the P5 (plus the Big East) and everyone else. Big East 7-10 of conference teams go to the Tournament,6 must be deemed worthy of an at-large bid....ridiculous,I don't see that type (quality) of teams in that conference for all but 3 teams to stay home or have to go to the WNIT. Xavier 12-18,Providence 12-18 , and Seton Hall 12-19,one of them got an at-large bid (guessing Seton Hall ,at 12-19) The Jacks have beaten DePaul and Creighton (more than once) and USD has beaten Marquette in the most recent years (and Creighton when they won the WNIT),that's the top 3 teams in the Big East last season,and we still get less respect than the Big East teams get.Keep beating them till they are forced to see I guess.
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