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Post by yodayote on Nov 16, 2015 19:16:42 GMT -6
Seeing Pelini implode like that makes me so thankful we have someone like Joe leading our team and setting such a good example for those young men Just ask any player how they feel about Joe Glenn and they will all say the love playing for him because he cares about them not only as a football player but as a person. You don't get at genuine interest the he has in his players just anywhere. People will argue that good guys don't win games, but good guys help build good programs and right now we are still building. |
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Post by Yotes on Nov 16, 2015 19:29:59 GMT -6
Damn tired of hearing about Iowa fans and their football team stumbling through the easiest schedule they could have ever asked for. Don't tell me they are consistently successful either. Very recently got blasted by a crap Tenneessee team in last year's bowl game and are not far removed from a 8 or 9 loss season. Hold tight, yotes. They still need to finish - their aren't anymore ties for conference championships in the B1G. Oh trust me, I don't foresee them having a successful end to the season. Beatdowns at the hands of Ohio State and whatever bowl team they get matched up with seem quite likely. Their most impressive win may have been the way they handled Illinois State, who would probably fit in well with that pitiful Big Ten West division. I really don't understand the point of this topic and how it relates to Coyote Football. |
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Post by Coyote Fan on Nov 16, 2015 20:12:34 GMT -6
For arguments sake I am going to project the games this week to look at things as they are likely to look at seasons end.
Illinois State over USD
Youngstown State over Indiana State
South Dakota State over Western Illinois
North Dakota State over Missouri State
Northern Iowa over Southern Illinois
Standings
Illinois State 6-1
NDSU 6-1
SDSU 6-2
UNI 5-3
W Illinois 4-4
Youngstown 4-4
USD 3-5
Indiana State 2-6
S Illinois 2-6
Missouri State 0-8
The Coyotes will likely end up 3-5 in the conference for a 4 season total under Joe Glenn of 6-26 for an average MVFC record of 1.5 - 6.5 and a 23% winning percentage. So when we talk about stability exactly what does that mean keeping a coach in place that has consistantly finished in the lower half of the conference for 2 seasons and dead last in the 2 other seasons. Is that the stability we are looking for. Sure the Coyotes improved this season no question but a program will improve by accident vs a team that went 0-8 in conference and losing every game by double digits.
In Glenn's 2nd season in the MVFC he finished 3-5 just like this year. Everyone thought the Coyotes would improve the next year but instead went 0-8 in the Valley and that was on Glenn not a previous regime. With that said there certainly isn't any guarantees that the program will take another step forward next year as is now. The numbers are the numbers and the evaluations should be made based on facts and these numbers do not bode well for the future. Whether he retires this year, next year or whenever the Coyotes are not going to have Glenn in the fold very long so why not get a jump start on the future.
My worst fear is pretty much playing out exactly how I thought it would with a likely 3-5 finish in conference. The program is improved but not to the point where they are a serious contender in the Valley. The Coyotes are not bad enough for everyone to be on board that a change is needed. They aren't good enough to have truly turned a corner. The Coyotes will have won only 1 game against the top 6 in the conference. 2 of the 3 wins will have come against a 0-8 conference team and a 2-6 conference team. The Yotes still won't have good result against the mid level and upper level conference teams.
My fear is that one of two things will happen. Herbster will convince Glenn to stay on board and coach another year or two because of a sense that the program is improved despite the overall 4 year record. The Coyotes will not get the new start that is needed. An even worse fear is that Joe Glenn will retire and be in Herbster's ear to hire one of the current staff members as the new head coach, likely Beschorner or if not someone else. Regardless of who it will be they will not be even close to having the resume or success to be a MVFC head coach. In that case we are probably looking at another 3 or 4 lost years for the program. If it's Wes they will probably have an even longer rope hoping he learns on the job which is exactly what that case senario would involve. If Glenn stays 2 more years and senario two plays out after that we could be looking at 6 more years of not being a serious MVFC contender.
When I talk about wanting a new start it's not like I want a coach out that has even been remotely close to having a contending program. It's not like I want someone with a 16-16 record in the conference out for a new start, we are talking 6-26 which should speak for itself. 4 years ago if the Coyotes hired Jesus to be the head coach knowing the winning percentage would be less than 25% no one would sign up for that. When Glenn was in Arizona 5 years ago no one would have accepted this kind of a record, so why just because he is here in flesh and blood does that change now? Our best case senario is 3-5 in the Valley and that has been proven. Sorry but I just expect a bit more than that when it comes to the programs ceiling.
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Post by Coyote Fan on Nov 16, 2015 20:17:05 GMT -6
Seeing Pelini implode like that makes me so thankful we have someone like Joe leading our team and setting such a good example for those young men Just ask any player how they feel about Joe Glenn and they will all say the love playing for him because he cares about them not only as a football player but as a person. You don't get at genuine interest the he has in his players just anywhere. People will argue that good guys don't win games, but good guys help build good programs and right now we are still building. The same thing can be said about 50 other FCS programs around the nation with losing records, assuming next week is a loss. We all know that Glenn is a good guy and the players like him but this isn't bible school it's a football program where needing to like a coach is not a necessity. Joe has been building for 4 years now. When does building actually turn into a contender. That is what I would like to know. |
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Post by bigOyote on Nov 16, 2015 20:31:03 GMT -6
One of the things that people who point out the "lack of relevance" of Nebraska's program is that the program's success started in around 1965 not in 1998, the first season without Osborne in the program. Nebraskans look toward football success like an addiction. It is very hard to shake.
The point regarding stability in coaching staff can not be stressed enough since that is how the Cornhuskers built their program and how Iowa is coping it. I would say there needs to be a bigger window than 5 years. 10 years? Hard to do with a coach the age of Coach Glenn.
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Post by bigOyote on Nov 16, 2015 20:33:54 GMT -6
Just ask any player how they feel about Joe Glenn and they will all say the love playing for him because he cares about them not only as a football player but as a person. You don't get at genuine interest the he has in his players just anywhere. People will argue that good guys don't win games, but good guys help build good programs and right now we are still building. The same thing can be said about 50 other FCS programs around the nation with losing records, assuming next week is a loss. We all know that Glenn is a good guy and the players like him but this isn't bible school it's a football program where needing to like a coach is not a necessity. Joe has been building for 4 years now. When does building actually turn into a contender. That is what I would like to know. Just to keep the Husker analogy going to an eternity . . . When would you have suggested replacing Devaney or Osborne? |
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Post by Coyote Fan on Nov 16, 2015 20:56:11 GMT -6
Don't follow the Huskers close enough to make an opinion. Huskers fans should have a high standard just like the fans of every program should have. Nebraska fans should have the goal of having their Corn Huskers be a national title contender. If the Huskers are below .500 in either the current big 10 or when they were in the Big 12 than the fans have every right to expect more. NDSU fans sure as heck wouldn't accept a team below .500 in the Valley so why should Coyote fans. NDSU fans would be turning over cars in Fargo and looting the local stores if their team endured one year of Glenn's record let alone 4 years. The campus would have been burned down by now in Fargo. Jacks fans would not have accepted 4 years that the record that Joe has put up. They might have given him a second year but SDSU fans would have never accepted the kind of standard that Coyote fans accept every year. Glenn would have been out after year 2 in Brookings and after a 0-8 Valley would have probably been out after the first year in Fargo.
Seriously though is a 6-26 conference record really acceptable. Despite the record that the Coyotes have had against the Jacks over the past 25 years I have never really heard a serious uproar from Coyote fans about it. It's pretty much an accepted fate that the Yotes don't beat the Jacks in football. For as much importance as USD puts on their games with SDSU it is amazing how accepting they are of losing almost every time. I guess it's not who ya beat but who ya play.
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Post by bigOyote on Nov 16, 2015 22:01:26 GMT -6
Don't follow the Huskers close enough to make an opinion. Huskers fans should have a high standard just like the fans of every program should have. Nebraska fans should have the goal of having their Corn Huskers be a national title contender. If the Huskers are below .500 in either the current big 10 or when they were in the Big 12 than the fans have every right to expect more. NDSU fans sure as heck wouldn't accept a team below .500 in the Valley so why should Coyote fans. NDSU fans would be turning over cars in Fargo and looting the local stores if their team endured one year of Glenn's record let alone 4 years. The campus would have been burned down by now in Fargo. Jacks fans would not have accepted 4 years that the record that Joe has put up. They might have given him a second year but SDSU fans would have never accepted the kind of standard that Coyote fans accept every year. Glenn would have been out after year 2 in Brookings and after a 0-8 Valley would have probably been out after the first year in Fargo. Seriously though is a 6-26 conference record really acceptable. Despite the record that the Coyotes have had against the Jacks over the past 25 years I have never really heard a serious uproar from Coyote fans about it. It's pretty much an accepted fate that the Yotes don't beat the Jacks in football. For as much importance as USD puts on their games with SDSU it is amazing how accepting they are of losing almost every time. I guess it's not who ya beat but who ya play. If your only yardstick for success is records you are truly missing the point. But that is OK I should have figured that would be your response. |
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Post by nccyote on Nov 16, 2015 22:26:00 GMT -6
Its funny to me how similar Nebraska and USD football's coaching situations are. Ed Meierkort and Bo Pelini are basically the same guy. Ed and Pelini both came into programs that were seriously underachieving. With a bad boy, us against the world attitude, they saw rapid success and their players loved them. I played for Ed and when he came in, it was like a breathe of fresh air for the program. He was brash, he stuck up for his players, and the players were loyal to a fault to Ed. Same can be said for Bo. But after awhile the act got old, the coaches got arrogant, and the program took steps backwards. Wins and losses might have been OK, but the programs were decaying from the inside out. Players were not always held accountable, player development took a back seat to the coach's egos, and both coaches lost a lot of respect due to the way that they carried themselves on and off the field. Both left the cupboard pretty bare in terms of talent and depth when they were fired. You can say what you want about how players felt about Ed and Bo at the end of their tenures, but I know for a FACT and have spoken with players that were in both programs, there were just as many if not more guys that couldn't stand Bo and Ed than there was guys that loved them.
In both situations, the programs turned to a calming presence with Glenn and Reilly. Success has not happened as quickly as many had hoped or expected. But you can see that things are being done the right way. There are not any corners that are being cut. When things go wrong, these guys don't point the finger they point the thumb. That didn't happen with Bo and Ed. And regardless of what the media or fans say, the way you feel about your coach is one of the most important things for a college player. If you don't love your coach, you don't love the game as much as you should and you question a lot of things. Trust me, I know from experience during the Austin era that when players dislike their coach, the product on the field suffers.
Having a revolving door of coaches is the very worst way to promote growth in your football program. This program is the best that it has been in the D-1 era, regardless of record. We have a wealth of young talent and a good bunch of returning starters. People have questioned Nebraska for their decision to fire Bo after successful seasons, what would USD look like firing their coach after the most successful season in the D-1 era?
Joe and staff deserve 1 more year. IMO
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Post by Yotes on Nov 16, 2015 22:40:38 GMT -6
A couple bounces our way and we beat SDSU and are a win against Illinois State from making the playoffs. This is not some lousy team bumbling through mediocre competition and to insinuate that our potential 3-5 MVFC record is the "worst nightmare" scenario is just dumb. Great strides were taken, good teams were beaten, Joe will be back next year if he is willing.
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Post by Coyote Fan on Nov 16, 2015 23:23:30 GMT -6
Don't follow the Huskers close enough to make an opinion. Huskers fans should have a high standard just like the fans of every program should have. Nebraska fans should have the goal of having their Corn Huskers be a national title contender. If the Huskers are below .500 in either the current big 10 or when they were in the Big 12 than the fans have every right to expect more. NDSU fans sure as heck wouldn't accept a team below .500 in the Valley so why should Coyote fans. NDSU fans would be turning over cars in Fargo and looting the local stores if their team endured one year of Glenn's record let alone 4 years. The campus would have been burned down by now in Fargo. Jacks fans would not have accepted 4 years that the record that Joe has put up. They might have given him a second year but SDSU fans would have never accepted the kind of standard that Coyote fans accept every year. Glenn would have been out after year 2 in Brookings and after a 0-8 Valley would have probably been out after the first year in Fargo. Seriously though is a 6-26 conference record really acceptable. Despite the record that the Coyotes have had against the Jacks over the past 25 years I have never really heard a serious uproar from Coyote fans about it. It's pretty much an accepted fate that the Yotes don't beat the Jacks in football. For as much importance as USD puts on their games with SDSU it is amazing how accepting they are of losing almost every time. I guess it's not who ya beat but who ya play. If your only yardstick for success is records you are truly missing the point. But that is OK I should have figured that would be your response. It's not the only yardstick just the biggest one. If the Yotes are a losing football team but the coach is a nice guy who cares. I have said this before but there are a million nice guys in the world but that doesn't make them all good football coaches. Whether a coach is nice or not isn't real relevant to the success of a football program. How nice the head football coach is ranks about #100 in the qualities one wants in a program. It's certainly not a bad thing but just not that big of a deal. |
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Post by Coyote Fan on Nov 16, 2015 23:25:57 GMT -6
A couple bounces our way and we beat SDSU and are a win against Illinois State from making the playoffs. This is not some lousy team bumbling through mediocre competition and to insinuate that our potential 3-5 MVFC record is the "worst nightmare" scenario is just dumb. Great strides were taken, good teams were beaten, Joe will be back next year if he is willing. If you want to play that game than the Yotes are also a couple of bounces away from being 1-6 in the conference. The Yotes are 3-4 and that is exactly what they are and exactly where they should be. |
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Post by Cousin Eddie on Nov 17, 2015 6:04:59 GMT -6
Its funny to me how similar Nebraska and USD football's coaching situations are. Ed Meierkort and Bo Pelini are basically the same guy. Ed and Pelini both came into programs that were seriously underachieving. With a bad boy, us against the world attitude, they saw rapid success and their players loved them. I played for Ed and when he came in, it was like a breathe of fresh air for the program. He was brash, he stuck up for his players, and the players were loyal to a fault to Ed. Same can be said for Bo. But after awhile the act got old, the coaches got arrogant, and the program took steps backwards. Wins and losses might have been OK, but the programs were decaying from the inside out. Players were not always held accountable, player development took a back seat to the coach's egos, and both coaches lost a lot of respect due to the way that they carried themselves on and off the field. Both left the cupboard pretty bare in terms of talent and depth when they were fired. You can say what you want about how players felt about Ed and Bo at the end of their tenures, but I know for a FACT and have spoken with players that were in both programs, there were just as many if not more guys that couldn't stand Bo and Ed than there was guys that loved them. In both situations, the programs turned to a calming presence with Glenn and Reilly. Success has not happened as quickly as many had hoped or expected. But you can see that things are being done the right way. There are not any corners that are being cut. When things go wrong, these guys don't point the finger they point the thumb. That didn't happen with Bo and Ed. And regardless of what the media or fans say, the way you feel about your coach is one of the most important things for a college player. If you don't love your coach, you don't love the game as much as you should and you question a lot of things. Trust me, I know from experience during the Austin era that when players dislike their coach, the product on the field suffers. Having a revolving door of coaches is the very worst way to promote growth in your football program. This program is the best that it has been in the D-1 era, regardless of record. We have a wealth of young talent and a good bunch of returning starters. People have questioned Nebraska for their decision to fire Bo after successful seasons, what would USD look like firing their coach after the most successful season in the D-1 era? Joe and staff deserve 1 more year. IMO This is an outstanding commentary and perspective. |
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Post by yodayote on Nov 17, 2015 7:53:13 GMT -6
If your only yardstick for success is records you are truly missing the point. But that is OK I should have figured that would be your response. It's not the only yardstick just the biggest one. If the Yotes are a losing football team but the coach is a nice guy who cares. I have said this before but there are a million nice guys in the world but that doesn't make them all good football coaches. Whether a coach is nice or not isn't real relevant to the success of a football program. How nice the head football coach is ranks about #100 in the qualities one wants in a program. It's certainly not a bad thing but just not that big of a deal. If the coaches biggest yardstick is "wins", then the fans biggest yardstick is "donations"......so how much did you donate to the football program this season? |
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Post by Coyote Fan on Nov 17, 2015 8:01:30 GMT -6
It's not the only yardstick just the biggest one. If the Yotes are a losing football team but the coach is a nice guy who cares. I have said this before but there are a million nice guys in the world but that doesn't make them all good football coaches. Whether a coach is nice or not isn't real relevant to the success of a football program. How nice the head football coach is ranks about #100 in the qualities one wants in a program. It's certainly not a bad thing but just not that big of a deal. If the coaches biggest yardstick is "wins", then the fans biggest yardstick is "donations"......so how much did you donate to the football program this season? After last season's dumpster fire, nada, zero and nothing. |
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