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Post by fightsd on Apr 4, 2016 7:30:00 GMT -6
WNIT Championship vs. NCAA appearance
Both great accomplishments, both tough to do. Everybody wants to make the big dance and everybody wants to win the last game of their season. USD did one, state college did the other.
Every team's goal is to make an NCAA tournament run. I'm sure it was our team's goal this year also. That would have been pretty neat. But in this case, I think winning out the WNIT at home did much more for the WBB program and the USD brand than losing in the first or second round of the NCAAs. There are plenty of coyote fans in South Dakota, they do exist beyond Vermillion. Our fan base has been desperate for something exciting to happen. And the way it happened couldn't have been better. Winning one big game is great, but if you follow it up with a loss we really didn't gain much. But building momentum and excitement over the course of a month allows time for people to get on board and invest themselves in the tournament. All the people that saw the highlights from the WKU and Oregon games and said, "Man, I wish I would have gone," got that opportunity. Each game we hosted generated more interest than the one before, finally resulting in a sell-out crowd (very few free tickets given away BTW) and a tournament championship. This tournament brought many coyote fans out of dormancy, and if even half of those fans show interest in next year's program, this tournament was an even greater success than we all realize.
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Post by yoteforever on Apr 4, 2016 7:39:32 GMT -6
WNIT Championship vs. NCAA appearance Both great accomplishments, both tough to do. Everybody wants to make the big dance and everybody wants to win the last game of their season. USD did one, state college did the other. Every team's goal is to make an NCAA tournament run. I'm sure it was our team's goal this year also. That would have been pretty neat. But in this case, I think winning out the WNIT at home did much more for the WBB program and the USD brand than losing in the first or second round of the NCAAs. There are plenty of coyote fans in South Dakota, they do exist beyond Vermillion. Our fan base has been desperate for something exciting to happen. And the way it happened couldn't have been better. Winning one big game is great, but if you follow it up with a loss we really didn't gain much. But building momentum and excitement over the course of a month allows time for people to get on board and invest themselves in the tournament. All the people that saw the highlights from the WKU and Oregon games and said, "Man, I wish I would have gone," got that opportunity. Each game we hosted generated more interest than the one before, finally resulting in a sell-out crowd (very few free tickets given away BTW) and a tournament championship. This tournament brought many coyote fans out of dormancy, and if even half of those fans show interest in next year's program, this tournament was an even greater success than we all realize. Very well written
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Post by Yote 53 on Apr 4, 2016 8:26:45 GMT -6
WNIT Championship vs. NCAA appearance Both great accomplishments, both tough to do. Everybody wants to make the big dance and everybody wants to win the last game of their season. USD did one, state college did the other. Every team's goal is to make an NCAA tournament run. I'm sure it was our team's goal this year also. That would have been pretty neat. But in this case, I think winning out the WNIT at home did much more for the WBB program and the USD brand than losing in the first or second round of the NCAAs. There are plenty of coyote fans in South Dakota, they do exist beyond Vermillion. Our fan base has been desperate for something exciting to happen. And the way it happened couldn't have been better. Winning one big game is great, but if you follow it up with a loss we really didn't gain much. But building momentum and excitement over the course of a month allows time for people to get on board and invest themselves in the tournament. All the people that saw the highlights from the WKU and Oregon games and said, "Man, I wish I would have gone," got that opportunity. Each game we hosted generated more interest than the one before, finally resulting in a sell-out crowd (very few free tickets given away BTW) and a tournament championship. This tournament brought many coyote fans out of dormancy, and if even half of those fans show interest in next year's program, this tournament was an even greater success than we all realize. Yep. It's what the entire athletic department needed. The Coyote WBB team sparked something in the fan base that I believe is going to carry on into the fall of 2016. Saturday was just surreal. You had a parking lot full of tailgaters, many of them watching a spring football practice going on right next to the festivities, the soccer girls and softball girls on campus, the softball girls coming to the WBB in their uniforms to cheer on their fellow female student-athletes, a sold out Dome, and a thrilling win to cap it all off. I heard more than one person say it just felt great, felt like it was October out there with the crisp weather, and could not wait for fall. I think the enthusiasm for the entire athletic department is at a high point right now because of this run. Next year there is great anticipation for the football season, the opening of the Den, a curiosity for the MBB team and getting to see some of the candy that was hid in the cupboard this season, and to see the WBB defend their SLT and take the program to the next level. Not making the NCAA's was bitter but this WNIT run was probably more beneficial for the long term health of Coyote athletics and something that galvanized the fan base.
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Post by formeryote on Apr 4, 2016 8:27:13 GMT -6
Winning one game in the NCAA’s versus winning the WNIT championship is probably more of an argument of opinion whether you’re a state fan or USD fan. However, it’s a fact that the difference between good teams and great teams is that great teams finish.
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Post by Yotes on Apr 4, 2016 8:31:37 GMT -6
Fantastic take on the subject fightsd. If we get half of the fans from the title game to stick around then this WNIT title will have done far more for the program than an NCAA berth (perhaps even if we made the Sweet 16) would have.
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Post by kiyoat on Apr 4, 2016 8:31:47 GMT -6
.. .... and here's the same graph with an updated average attendance number for the Yotes post-championship.... 2333. Keep in mind, State fans, that this will be the official number shown on NCAA stats. I don't expect that 2333 will be our new standard for average attendance, but we DID earn that number with a superior on-court product, and real-life butts in seats. If we can maintain or improve on the 1700 number for the regular season next year, I will consider that improvement. We still have a little farther to go to consider ourselves equal in WBB fan support, but I think the gap is closing with State, and widening (hugely) with the rest of the conference. New Arena + excitement over the WNIT championship + future marquee home games should get us up there, butt we will see (pun intended)
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Post by Yotes on Apr 4, 2016 8:37:05 GMT -6
Support isn't equal until it shows consistently and especially when it matters most in Sioux Falls. Happy to see the attendance rise but there is work to be done.
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Post by kiyoat on Apr 4, 2016 8:53:27 GMT -6
Also, I think that the potential is there to get ORU and NDSU's numbers back up if they have better seasons next year. Those fan bases have been good in the past. Hopefully Omaha will also continue to improve there with the new Baxter Arena.
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Post by kiyoat on Apr 4, 2016 8:55:15 GMT -6
As for the rest of the teams, West Ill, IUPUI, IPFW and Denver, the success of the Dakotas and the success of the SLT in Sioux Falls may be factors in the eastern teams feeling a little disenfranchised and less interested. I'm not sure what the solution to that would be, other than to say "get better". The SLT isn't going to leave SF.
Whoever is the commissioner may want to find a creative solution to keep those schools in the fold, or they might look at other options. IUPUI is an example of a good team who's fans have not gotten on the bandwagon.
Here's a thought: An early-season matchup or tournament against Horizon-League Teams with the games all held in the geographical overlap area (Illinois and Indiana) would be interesting. Kind of like the Big10/ACC do. "The Midwest Mid-major Challenge" or something like that.
Another thought: Find what the biggest gripes those fans have with the SLT (other than the location) and address them. Each team could be allotted an area of the lower bowl where only their school's athletic department would have access to the all-tournament tickets. After a certain date, unsold tickets would be made available to everyone, so the Jacks/Yotes/Bison fans can gobble them up. I think that would be a popular move IMHO.
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larobe
Sophomore Member
Posts: 179
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Post by larobe on Apr 4, 2016 10:15:25 GMT -6
Ah larobe you're basing your "analysis" on "ranking" and probably RPI and most of us know how accurate those indicators are. A couple of examples--I watched the Notre Dame women play several games this year before the tournament including the state game and it was obvious to me and I think most realistic observers that this ND team should not have been ranked #2 in the national "polls"! That was certainly proven in actual competition in the tournament. Washington's women were not highly ranked and the "experts" gave them only a .2% chance of making the final 4 and yet in actual competition they did! So state lost a competitive game to a "ranked 2" team and the Lady Yotes beat state 2 of 3 games in actual competition and lost a competitive game to an actual final 4 team!! So much for rankings!!! You are right as I sometimes think the same thing after watching games and I'm amazed at how much closer both both USD and SDSU are to winning these games on a regular basis.There's not that much difference right now.I think the P-5 has always used their status so to speak to try and keep the others down,more than people think,to try and keep the status quo .They want all the advantage and none of the disadvantages. I see all your points as valid.Both programs are rising up,and that's a good thing.
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larobe
Sophomore Member
Posts: 179
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Post by larobe on Apr 4, 2016 10:28:27 GMT -6
Saying making the NCAA tournament and a first round loss is better than a WNIT Championship is just foolish!! Really losing one vs. winning 6? Not a chance!! In this year's women's NCAA, 8 first round teams LOST by 25 points or more and that doesn't count the UConn game since they blow everyone out! Clearly some of those teams should not have been in the NCAA tourney and teams like USD and FGCU should have been!! It's very debatable which one is more enjoyable for the fans of the team in question, but as far as accomplishments go it's a bit more cut and dry. WNIT title and one-and-done in the NCAA tournament are probably pretty even in that regard. A lot of the reason for this is "auto bids" given to the weaker conferences Champion, it happens every year,and the seeding structure #1 vs #16 ,#2 vs #15,..... etc.After the first round,a team likely will face a top 25 team the rest of the way,barring a huge upset.The NCAA is the toughest Tournament by far for advancing through it.You are right in pointing out also that it is very hard to win six games in a short time period against very good teams....USD should rightfully be proud.I'm happy for them they did it. On to the greater question ,does the NCAA always include the best available teams for the thirty some spots for an at-large invite? The answer is "nope",they mess it up on a regular basis.IMO
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Post by yote14 on Apr 4, 2016 10:37:40 GMT -6
So CF are you saying the WNIT is better than winning games in NCAA tournament? You can also stop bringing up home court advantage in Sioux Falls for SDSU. USD just showed what kind of attendance they can get. Show up to Sioux Falls and quit your bitching. USD played at home while SDSU had to play at UTEP in front of 12k+ in their WNIT run. The stars aligned and USD took advantage. Congrats on the 2nd tier tournament championship. Winning the WNIT is better than losing in one of the first two rounds of the NCAA tournament. If USD did not win then the NCAA is more important.
The stars aligned for SDSU's run too. you too played every game at home just couldn't win on the road and USD did against one of the best women players in the country and a P5 school.
I can understand why state fans are so upset as their empire of tenured coaches is crumbling. You are going to go through what USD went through the past 6 years with coaches only you will not be going up against regional teams which were established before you.
Get ready. Because all the unkind comments you have had for Yote fans the past 10 years are coming back full circle. And a lot of your fan base deserves every single part of it including yourself sandakotastate. When your a bottom feeder in BBall the next couple years remember all your comments. When Coach Nutmeg (Stig) and AJ leaves get ready to go through the same thing too.
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Post by sdyotefan on Apr 4, 2016 10:41:20 GMT -6
larobe--You're right that the P-5 has a status that is often not earned year to year while there is a bias against mid-majors. As you allude to in women's BB there is very little difference between USD & SDSU and most of the teams from the P=5. On the men's side at least for the fore seeable future I believe the gap is much wider. Right now winning 1 NCAA game on the men's side would be like winning 2 or maybe even 3 on the women's side.
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Post by yote14 on Apr 4, 2016 10:51:29 GMT -6
SDSU fans have been saying that having USD be good is good for the Summit. I would have to say that SDSU fans probably didn't envision USD being this good. I would think some are maybe backtracking on that thought. It's only good for them if USD doesn't tap into their accomplishments and having USD win the WNIT is probably better than any accomplishment a SDSU team has had since moving to D1. Their basketball teams have been to the NCAA's and their football team has been to the second round of the playoffs but official NCAA playoffs or not winning the WNIT (although secondary goal) would have to be considered a better accomplishment than anything they have done. I guess the Coyotes didn't accomplish the feat of playing Notre Dame at home and giving them a good game so maybe winning the WNIT pales in comparison to that. If USD gets their football program and mens basketball program to a higer level and start to equal of upstage what SDSU has done than I would probably guess that a lot more antimosity towards USD will come from up north. Are you just looking to get reactions out of people or what? There was some good teams in the Summit before USD joined. The ORU women won back-to-back regular season championships in 2009-2010 and 2010-2011. They didn't win the SLT though just like the Yotes. I want the Summit League to become a 2 bid league just like everyone else. I believe SDSU has won the regular season championship 5 times since going D1. ORU won it twice as I stated earlier and now USD has won it twice. This isn't a new thing to SDSU fans. It's not like SDSU is getting worse. ORU made SDSU raise their game just like USD has made the Jacks up their game the past 2 years. ORU dropped off but looks like they are starting to get back on track. USD will more than likely take a step back next year. The question is if USD can sustain the success they have had. No other team in the Summit has except for SDSU. The thing I don't like is that you are down playing winning games in the NCAA tournament and saying winning the WNIT is better. That is complete asinine imo. Go ask coaches and players in what they want they would rather do? Winning games in the NCAA Tournament is better than wining the WNIT. Winning the WNIT is a consolation prize for not making the big dance. SDSU made the WNIT 3 times. 2 of those team was when they were still ineligible for the NCAA's due to the transition rules. The other time was when a 7-7 USD team beat them in the semis of the SLT. Out of those WNIT appearances the Jacks have an Elite 8 appearance, a 1st round loss, and a Final 4 appearance. The 7 NCAA appearances (along with the 2 NCAA tourney wins) have done more for the program than the WNIT trips. I don't know why you think a WNIT championship is better than NCAA tourney wins. All I can say is that it is A LOT harder to win games in the NCAA's than in the WNIT. Maybe you can explain to me why winning the WNIT is better than winning a game in the NCAA tournament? How many banners did SDSU put up for making the NCAA tournament? We will have one for the WNIT championship I'm sure.
I have not heard one person on this board say making the NIT is better than the NCAA's. Nor has anyone said winning a game or 2 in the NIT is more important than winning a game or a none and done in the NCAA's. Winning the NIT is however significantly better than winning a game in the NCAA and then losing in the second round. At least for schools USD/SDSU/NDSU size who have virtually no chance at winning an NCAA championship.
Don't be made because we have once again surpassed your accomplishments.
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Post by jackl on Apr 4, 2016 10:56:04 GMT -6
As for the rest of the teams, West Ill, IUPUI, IPFW and Denver, the success of the Dakotas and the success of the SLT in Sioux Falls may be factors in the eastern teams feeling a little disenfranchised and less interested. I'm not sure what the solution to that would be, other than to say "get better". The SLT isn't going to leave SF. Whoever is the commissioner may want to find a creative solution to keep those schools in the fold, or they might look at other options. IUPUI is an example of a good team who's fans have not gotten on the bandwagon. Here's a thought: An early-season matchup or tournament against Horizon-League Teams with the games all held in the geographical overlap area (Illinois and Indiana) would be interesting. Kind of like the Big10/ACC do. "The Midwest Mid-major Challenge" or something like that. Another thought: Find what the biggest gripes those fans have with the SLT (other than the location) and address them. Each team could be allotted an area of the lower bowl where only their school's athletic department would have access to the all-tournament tickets. After a certain date, unsold tickets would be made available to everyone, so the Jacks/Yotes/Bison fans can gobble them up. I think that would be a popular move IMHO. I don't know where you came from but welcome. You're a much needed addition to this board. You have probably increased the average IQ here by about 50 points.
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