larobe
Sophomore Member
Posts: 179
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Post by larobe on Apr 4, 2016 10:59:24 GMT -6
As for the rest of the teams, West Ill, IUPUI, IPFW and Denver, the success of the Dakotas and the success of the SLT in Sioux Falls may be factors in the eastern teams feeling a little disenfranchised and less interested. I'm not sure what the solution to that would be, other than to say "get better". The SLT isn't going to leave SF. Whoever is the commissioner may want to find a creative solution to keep those schools in the fold, or they might look at other options. IUPUI is an example of a good team who's fans have not gotten on the bandwagon. Here's a thought: An early-season matchup or tournament against Horizon-League Teams with the games all held in the geographical overlap area (Illinois and Indiana) would be interesting. Kind of like the Big10/ACC do. "The Midwest Mid-major Challenge" or something like that. Another thought: Find what the biggest gripes those fans have with the SLT (other than the location) and address them. Each team could be allotted an area of the lower bowl where only their school's athletic department would have access to the all-tournament tickets. After a certain date, unsold tickets would be made available to everyone, so the Jacks/Yotes/Bison fans can gobble them up. I think that would be a popular move IMHO. I really like this Idea, and think it would be great to have a mid-major type early tournament...just for the hype it would generate...although it would kind of be like the preseason WNIT tournament that's already established.Sorry,you meant conf vs conf for mid-majors ,I like that even better since the major conferences have found a lot of success doing it.Great Idea.Hope someone can bring that to fruition.
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larobe
Sophomore Member
Posts: 179
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Post by larobe on Apr 4, 2016 11:12:43 GMT -6
This is what I know,and this is so true......A USD fan is a USD fan and a SDSU fan is a SDSU fan,and trying to make one the other is nothing more than an exercise in futility...LOL Don't you just love college Rivalry's. It is as it should be.
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Post by yotebewithyou on Apr 4, 2016 11:43:13 GMT -6
MAKING the WNIT is a consolation prize for not making the big dance. Fixed that for you. Making it is a consolation prize. Winning it is much bigger than a consolation prize.
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Post by kiyoat on Apr 4, 2016 14:14:12 GMT -6
As for the rest of the teams, West Ill, IUPUI, IPFW and Denver, the success of the Dakotas and the success of the SLT in Sioux Falls may be factors in the eastern teams feeling a little disenfranchised and less interested. I'm not sure what the solution to that would be, other than to say "get better". The SLT isn't going to leave SF. Whoever is the commissioner may want to find a creative solution to keep those schools in the fold, or they might look at other options. IUPUI is an example of a good team who's fans have not gotten on the bandwagon. Here's a thought: An early-season matchup or tournament against Horizon-League Teams with the games all held in the geographical overlap area (Illinois and Indiana) would be interesting. Kind of like the Big10/ACC do. "The Midwest Mid-major Challenge" or something like that. Another thought: Find what the biggest gripes those fans have with the SLT (other than the location) and address them. Each team could be allotted an area of the lower bowl where only their school's athletic department would have access to the all-tournament tickets. After a certain date, unsold tickets would be made available to everyone, so the Jacks/Yotes/Bison fans can gobble them up. I think that would be a popular move IMHO. I don't know where you came from but welcome. You're a much needed addition to this board. You have probably increased the average IQ here by about 50 points. Thanks! although I may have to rethink myself a little, since it has been Jacks fans paying me compliments.......
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2016 17:00:49 GMT -6
Are you just looking to get reactions out of people or what? There was some good teams in the Summit before USD joined. The ORU women won back-to-back regular season championships in 2009-2010 and 2010-2011. They didn't win the SLT though just like the Yotes. I want the Summit League to become a 2 bid league just like everyone else. I believe SDSU has won the regular season championship 5 times since going D1. ORU won it twice as I stated earlier and now USD has won it twice. This isn't a new thing to SDSU fans. It's not like SDSU is getting worse. ORU made SDSU raise their game just like USD has made the Jacks up their game the past 2 years. ORU dropped off but looks like they are starting to get back on track. USD will more than likely take a step back next year. The question is if USD can sustain the success they have had. No other team in the Summit has except for SDSU. The thing I don't like is that you are down playing winning games in the NCAA tournament and saying winning the WNIT is better. That is complete asinine imo. Go ask coaches and players in what they want they would rather do? Winning games in the NCAA Tournament is better than wining the WNIT. Winning the WNIT is a consolation prize for not making the big dance. SDSU made the WNIT 3 times. 2 of those team was when they were still ineligible for the NCAA's due to the transition rules. The other time was when a 7-7 USD team beat them in the semis of the SLT. Out of those WNIT appearances the Jacks have an Elite 8 appearance, a 1st round loss, and a Final 4 appearance. The 7 NCAA appearances (along with the 2 NCAA tourney wins) have done more for the program than the WNIT trips. I don't know why you think a WNIT championship is better than NCAA tourney wins. All I can say is that it is A LOT harder to win games in the NCAA's than in the WNIT. Maybe you can explain to me why winning the WNIT is better than winning a game in the NCAA tournament? How many banners did SDSU put up for making the NCAA tournament? We will have one for the WNIT championship I'm sure.
I have not heard one person on this board say making the NIT is better than the NCAA's. Nor has anyone said winning a game or 2 in the NIT is more important than winning a game or a none and done in the NCAA's. Winning the NIT is however significantly better than winning a game in the NCAA and then losing in the second round. At least for schools USD/SDSU/NDSU size who have virtually no chance at winning an NCAA championship.
Don't be made because we have once again surpassed your accomplishments.
It's pretty hard to raise a banner when SDSU is always in the more prestige tournament playing against better quality teams. I guess if the Yotes want to keep on going to the WNIT, go for it. I'll take the Jacks in the NCAA Tournament every year. I should have made it more clear. I am saying winning the WNIT is not better than winning a game in the NCAA Tournament. At the very most, I will say that it is even. Until USD wins a NCAA tournament game and make more appearances your fan base wont fully understand the difficulty of actually winning a game. The odds will always be against the mid-major teams, but is what it makes it so special when a win happens. A Sweet 16 appearance should have happened this season but unfortunately the team unraveled at the end. You can be just like some of the local sports media around here and say that it is better for a mid-major but all the national sports analysts will say otherwise. Bring it up in the Argus Chat with Zimmer and Mick and see what there take it. I bet, they will side with me. I am not taking anything away from your teams championship. It is a good accomplishment but it is not better. I'll respectfully agree to disagree. And end this debate at that.
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Post by coyotecrazie5 on Apr 4, 2016 17:10:37 GMT -6
I think everyone fully understands that winning a NCAA game is very hard. I would compare the WNIT championship about the same as making the Sweet 16. The championship was a good accomplishment after getting upset in the SLT after winning 16 in a row. In the end USD and SDSU were both very good and had very similar seasons. The WNIT is getting more airtime because it has been more recent. There was a lot of talk when SDSU won a game and fell short in their second as well. If USD would have won the SLT and SDSU went to the WNIT, I think they could have won it as well. USD would have probably had a similar turnout in the NCAA tourney. They were very even years and both fan bases as well as the state should be proud.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2016 17:35:00 GMT -6
I think everyone fully understands that winning a NCAA game is very hard. I would compare the WNIT championship about the same as making the Sweet 16. The championship was a good accomplishment after getting upset in the SLT after winning 16 in a row. In the end USD and SDSU were both very good and had very similar seasons. The WNIT is getting more airtime because it has been more recent. There was a lot of talk when SDSU won a game and fell short in their second as well. If USD would have won the SLT and SDSU went to the WNIT, I think they could have won it as well. USD would have probably had a similar turnout in the NCAA tourney. They were very even years and both fan bases as well as the state should be proud. How about we meet in the middle and say a round of 32 loss? The WNIT is full of potential 10-14 seeds. Those teams are not ranked in the top 25 unlike a 3,4, 5, and 6 seeds in the NCAA tournament (seeds that USD/SDSU would play). Winning back-to-back games against top 25 teams is not an easy thing to do especially on their home court. That is why I am not willing to say a sweet 16 appearance is equivalent to WNIT championship. IMO, in the WNIT you are basically playing against your peers where in the NCAA Tournament you are playing against better competition and more talented teams. And being a mid-major you don't get a chance to play those games on your home-court where as in the WNIT, the host sites are up for bid. Both fan bases and the state of South Dakota can be very proud of both teams respective achievements this season, unlike in the state of North Dakota where they have some issues.
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usdlaw
Senior Member
Posts: 930
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Post by usdlaw on Apr 4, 2016 17:37:05 GMT -6
Sandakotastate seriously just shut up. If you actually believe the crap you spew I feel sorry for you
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Post by Coyote Fan on Apr 4, 2016 18:58:45 GMT -6
Well Miami was a 5 seed and they had a RPI of 25, Western Kentucky was USD's 4th round opponent and their RPI was 38 so really not much of a difference, a difference yes but it's not like a night and day difference. When USD played Kansas State in Manhattan the Yotes were a shell of themselves at that point in the season and still took them to OT and KSU ended up a 9 seed in the tourney with an RPI of 48. When USD played Washington they had also not reached their peak yet and still gave them everything they could handle.
Whatever your opinion if you put the 10 biggest experts of Women's College Basketball into a room after the national title game and they rank the top 50 teams in the country 1-50 my guess is that USD's name comes up by the time the 30th team is called out. I don't know if the RPI is calculated after the regular season is over or not but I would have to imagine that USD's would have risen to at least 40 by this time of the year.
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Post by Yotes on Apr 4, 2016 19:15:58 GMT -6
Well Miami was a 5 seed and they had a RPI of 25, Western Kentucky was USD's 4th round opponent and their RPI was 38 so really not much of a difference, a difference yes but it's not like a night and day difference. When USD played Kansas State in Manhattan the Yotes were a shell of themselves at that point in the season and still took them to OT and KSU ended up a 9 seed in the tourney with an RPI of 48. When USD played Washington they had also not reached their peak yet and still gave them everything they could handle. Whatever your opinion if you put the 10 biggest experts of Women's College Basketball into a room after the national title game and they rank the top 50 teams in the country 1-50 my guess is that USD's name comes up by the time the 30th team is called out. I don't know if the RPI is calculated after the regular season is over or not but I would have to imagine that USD's would have risen to at least 40 by this time of the year. I don't know what your point is but I don't think anyone is disputing that USD was really good this year and worthy of being in the NCAA tournament
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Post by Coyote Fan on Apr 4, 2016 19:25:08 GMT -6
Well Miami was a 5 seed and they had a RPI of 25, Western Kentucky was USD's 4th round opponent and their RPI was 38 so really not much of a difference, a difference yes but it's not like a night and day difference. When USD played Kansas State in Manhattan the Yotes were a shell of themselves at that point in the season and still took them to OT and KSU ended up a 9 seed in the tourney with an RPI of 48. When USD played Washington they had also not reached their peak yet and still gave them everything they could handle. Whatever your opinion if you put the 10 biggest experts of Women's College Basketball into a room after the national title game and they rank the top 50 teams in the country 1-50 my guess is that USD's name comes up by the time the 30th team is called out. I don't know if the RPI is calculated after the regular season is over or not but I would have to imagine that USD's would have risen to at least 40 by this time of the year. I don't know what your point is but I don't think anyone is disputing that USD was really good this year and worthy of being in the NCAA tournament The point is that the argument from SDSU people is that the Jacks competition was much tougher in the tourney. A little tougher yes, but not necessarily a lot tougher.
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larobe
Sophomore Member
Posts: 179
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Post by larobe on Apr 5, 2016 1:23:29 GMT -6
Well Miami was a 5 seed and they had a RPI of 25, Western Kentucky was USD's 4th round opponent and their RPI was 38 so really not much of a difference, a difference yes but it's not like a night and day difference. When USD played Kansas State in Manhattan the Yotes were a shell of themselves at that point in the season and still took them to OT and KSU ended up a 9 seed in the tourney with an RPI of 48. When USD played Washington they had also not reached their peak yet and still gave them everything they could handle. Whatever your opinion if you put the 10 biggest experts of Women's College Basketball into a room after the national title game and they rank the top 50 teams in the country 1-50 my guess is that USD's name comes up by the time the 30th team is called out. I don't know if the RPI is calculated after the regular season is over or not but I would have to imagine that USD's would have risen to at least 40 by this time of the year. You got me curious,so I checked on some RPI web sites: realtime rpi, USD 62, SDSU 50 (last updated Mar 13) Warren Nolan, USD 44, SDSU 37 (last update ??) Massey Ratings USD 20, SDSU 28 (last update Apr 3) Jeff Saragin USD 37, SDSU 46 (last update Apr 4) Sonny Moore USD 30, SDSU 59 (last update Apr 3)
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Post by kiyoat on Apr 5, 2016 7:39:18 GMT -6
Awesome RPI find! I think that when you look at these numbers you see two outstanding teams that accomplished a great deal this year. It is difficult to judge which team is better based on separate tournaments. Their head-to-head record was 2-1, but if they played each other 100 times, I would bet you would have somewhere between 50-50 and 60-40 split, with a slight edge to the Yotes.
I think trying to compare tournament accomplishments is a fool's errand. Basically an opinion thing. Both teams went farther than they had ever been before, which is friggin AMAZING! The Jacks came very close to a sweet 16 appearance, and the Yotes came very close to a 3-game sweep of the Jacks. The Northern Iowa game could have gone either way, as well as many of the SLT, WNIT, and WNCAA games. Switch places and we may have had similar results.
I dislike the Jacks, and want to dominate them in all sports, but any sane person has to look at their women's record and respect what they have done. Let's not get stupid with hyperbole and exaggerate the differences between these two teams. They were very close. And they were VERY good.
But we were better.
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91jack
Sophomore Member
Posts: 162
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Post by 91jack on Apr 5, 2016 11:21:21 GMT -6
I think everyone fully understands that winning a NCAA game is very hard. I would compare the WNIT championship about the same as making the Sweet 16. The championship was a good accomplishment after getting upset in the SLT after winning 16 in a row. In the end USD and SDSU were both very good and had very similar seasons. The WNIT is getting more airtime because it has been more recent. There was a lot of talk when SDSU won a game and fell short in their second as well. If USD would have won the SLT and SDSU went to the WNIT, I think they could have won it as well. USD would have probably had a similar turnout in the NCAA tourney. They were very even years and both fan bases as well as the state should be proud. I just want to start out by saying that I stated that the team that won the Summit League Tournament could win a game or two in the NCAA Tournament and the other team could win 3 or 4 games in the WNIT(actually both teams could do about the same in the NCAA tourney). Once I saw who and where USD had to play each game, I had them winning the WNIT. Somebody asked me about the Minnesota game and the championship game and I picked USD both times. If USD had to go one the road and play somebody like UTEP, it would have been tougher but you play the team that is in front of you and that is what USD did. The combination of home games and the extra day off made USD the favorites. I look at winning the WNIT is about the same as winning 1 game in the NCAA tournament. USD played teams that were probably rated between 45 and 60 during their run. They got to play most of those games at home. In the NCAA tournament, you will probably play two teams that are in the top 25 and one of them will be on their home court. Granted that is only two games not six but you are playing top 20 teams on their home court. Both teams were about equal this season and if they were in each others places, they might of done exactly what the other team did. Hopefully with what both teams did this year(maybe a couple more), the Summit League will become a multi bid league. You would hope that the NCAA committee might take notice with what both teams did this year.
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91jack
Sophomore Member
Posts: 162
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Post by 91jack on Apr 5, 2016 11:24:52 GMT -6
I think everyone fully understands that winning a NCAA game is very hard. I would compare the WNIT championship about the same as making the Sweet 16. The championship was a good accomplishment after getting upset in the SLT after winning 16 in a row. In the end USD and SDSU were both very good and had very similar seasons. The WNIT is getting more airtime because it has been more recent. There was a lot of talk when SDSU won a game and fell short in their second as well. If USD would have won the SLT and SDSU went to the WNIT, I think they could have won it as well. USD would have probably had a similar turnout in the NCAA tourney. They were very even years and both fan bases as well as the state should be proud. I just want to start out by saying that I stated that the team that won the Summit League Tournament could win a game or two in the NCAA Tournament and the other team could win 3 or 4 games in the WNIT(actually both teams could do about the same in the NCAA tourney). Once I saw who and where USD had to play each game, I had them winning the WNIT. Somebody asked me about the Minnesota game and the championship game and I picked USD both times. If USD had to go on the road and play more road games, it would have been tougher but you play the team that is in front of you and that is what USD did. The combination of home games and the extra day off made USD the favorites. USD was deeper, didn't have to travel and had the extra day off on top of that. I look at winning the WNIT is about the same as winning 1 game in the NCAA tournament. USD played teams that were probably rated between 45 and 60 during their run. They got to play most of those games at home. In the NCAA tournament, you will probably play two teams that are in the top 25 and one of them will be on their home court. Granted that is only two games not six but you are playing top 20 teams on their home court. Both teams were about equal this season and if they were in each others places, they might of done exactly what the other team did. Hopefully with what both teams did this year(maybe a couple more), the Summit League will become a multi bid league. You would hope that the NCAA committee might take notice with what both teams did this year.
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