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Post by yotefan on Apr 3, 2018 12:01:16 GMT -6
Nice work kiyoat. Would be interesting to compare football attendance with the above institution numbers as well as student enrollment, athletic budgets, university budgets, and university endowments.
I have talked with two former Augie athletes and two other alumni about this who I am close with (and in full disclosure, one is my wife), and none thought a move to D-1 was a good long-term decision. Not a scientific poll by any stretch, which I readily admit. =)
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Post by Yote 53 on Apr 3, 2018 12:11:16 GMT -6
Play your games on a Wednesday night in January and charge MORE and get rid of doubleheaders and attendance is going to suffer.
Should we check Morningside's attendance next? They pack them into Allee Gym for those important GPAC tilts. D1 material, for sure.
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Post by elcoyote on Apr 3, 2018 12:13:06 GMT -6
Nice work kiyoat. Would be interesting to compare football attendance with the above institution numbers as well as student enrollment, athletic budgets, university budgets, and university endowments. I have talked with two former Augie athletes and two other alumni about this who I am close with (and in full disclosure, one is my wife), and none thought a move to D-1 was a good long-term decision. Not a scientific poll by any stretch, which I readily admit. =) It's good to hear that you're close with your wife. =) |
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Post by jacksfan29 on Apr 3, 2018 12:30:01 GMT -6
Play your games on a Wednesday night in January and charge MORE and get rid of doubleheaders and attendance is going to suffer. Should we check Morningside's attendance next? They pack them into Allee Gym for those important GPAC tilts. D1 material, for sure. Exactly. Take a look back at USD and SDSU's attendance numbers in the NCC when it was a doubleheader both Friday/Saturday nights. The Summit league has to fix their scheduling to allow for more fans to travel to Vermillion and Brookings from Sioux Falls. The other scheduling issue they need to fix, you can't have USD hosting SDSU or vis versa over the holidays. It also happens to both schools with NDSU. If they feel it is necessary to do so, then make the games Saturday night doubleheaders. |
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Post by elcoyote on Apr 3, 2018 12:43:38 GMT -6
Play your games on a Wednesday night in January and charge MORE and get rid of doubleheaders and attendance is going to suffer. Should we check Morningside's attendance next? They pack them into Allee Gym for those important GPAC tilts. D1 material, for sure. Exactly. Take a look back at USD and SDSU's attendance numbers in the NCC when it was a doubleheader both Friday/Saturday nights. The Summit league has to fix their scheduling to allow for more fans to travel to Vermillion and Brookings from Sioux Falls. The other scheduling issue they need to fix, you can't have USD hosting SDSU or vis versa over the holidays. It also happens to both schools with NDSU. If they feel it is necessary to do so, then make the games Saturday night doubleheaders. It was ridiculous when the Coyote men were in Brookings and the Jack women were in Vermillion on the same day over the Christmas/New Year break two seasons ago. It's almost as if the Summit is trying to do it's best to quash attendance at these games. Face it, right now USD/SDSU is the marquee matchup in the league and this should be taken into consideration. Not to be haughty, but I don't really care when Denver and Ft Wayne play and it would seem not too many others do either. |
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Post by kiyoat on Apr 3, 2018 13:37:14 GMT -6
Play your games on a Wednesday night in January and charge MORE and get rid of doubleheaders and attendance is going to suffer. Should we check Morningside's attendance next? They pack them into Allee Gym for those important GPAC tilts. D1 material, for sure. I'm not quite sure why your post is so belligerent in tone. I was just presenting data. You can interpret it however you like. There are certainly other factors that paint Augustana (and many D-II programs) in a worse light. I was just pointing out that in at least one area (Men's BB Attendance) A handful of D-II programs are right on-par with mid-major D-1 schools. Average D-II MBB attendance is shockingly low. When you look at Football attendance there is a much larger disparity between most D-1 and D-2 schools, including all of the Northern Sun. Which is not insignificant. Augie averaged 3,599 in 2017. That's better than the Northern Sun average of 2,395, but far below the top drawing D-II schools. Most of them are in the south or the MIAA. Central Missouri got 8,425 a game (#6), Northwest Missouri State got 7,884 (#9). We won't find many football-playing candidates in the D-II ranks, no doubt. Also, I agree with your point about the scheduling. I'm pretty sure that most D-II schools, including Augie, have a lot of Friday and Weekend basketball games, since they don't have to get input from Midco or ESPN on when to schedule them. |
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Post by Coyote Fan on Apr 3, 2018 14:06:58 GMT -6
If a D2 move up to the Summit is to occur my first choice would be Northwest Missouri State. They have D1 ready basketball and football programs now. They would be a good rival to Omaha and a potential rival to all the other schools as well. It would also be a game especially in football where many Coyote Fans would travel to. I would take them in a package with central missouri..
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Post by Yote 53 on Apr 3, 2018 14:17:47 GMT -6
I wasn't trying to be belligerent, just short I guess. I don't think you can compare Augie and Northern to USD and SDSU because it is becoming an apples to oranges comparison. Cost of the games and the day they are scheduled are huge factors. If the Summit went back to Fri/Sat doubleheaders you would see a tremendous rise in attendance. I don't understand why we don't go to Friday/Saturday games or at least Thursday/Saturday games. They don't have to be straight doubleheaders, maybe keep the men's & women's game separate and do day/night doubleheaders so the arena can be readied for the night game. Just make it so the men and women are playing on the same day in the same town.
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Post by kiyoat on Apr 3, 2018 14:49:56 GMT -6
Nice work kiyoat. Would be interesting to compare football attendance with the above institution numbers as well as student enrollment, athletic budgets, university budgets, and university endowments. I have talked with two former Augie athletes and two other alumni about this who I am close with (and in full disclosure, one is my wife), and none thought a move to D-1 was a good long-term decision. Not a scientific poll by any stretch, which I readily admit. =)
----3832 NDSU---------------------14,186
-----777 Western Illinois-----------13,602
----2321 SDSU---------------------12,851
----2310 Summit League Ave-----12,263
----1307 Northern Colorado-------12,087
----1629 Denver-------------------11,476
----2192 South Dakota------------10,151----4633 All-Division I Average----9,629----1307 MIAA Average-------------8,338
BELOW AVERAGE ENROLLMENT SCHOOLS6. -1965 Washburn--------------7,971
7. -1922 Nebraska-Kearney-----7,504
25. 1287 Colorado St-Pueblo----6,805
20. 1368 NW Missouri State-----6,530
16. 1487 Missouri Southern-----6,229
-----1157 Northern Sun Average----6,18522. 1374 Emporia State-----------5,887
VERY LOW ENROLLMENT SCHOOLS5. -2033 SW Minnesota State---3,700
12. 1548 Drury-------------------3,690
1. -3552 Northern State---------3,622----2827 Oral Roberts---------------3,417-----642 All-Division-II Average-----2,4852. -2661 Augustana-------------1,937So Augustana doesn't fit the profile of a Summit school by enrollment. Not by a long shot. Neither does ORU, though. www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/Recruiting%20Fact%20Sheet%20WEB.pdfen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Sun_Intercollegiate_Conferenceen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-America_Intercollegiate_Athletics_Associationen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summit_League |
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dave
Sophomore Member
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Post by dave on Apr 3, 2018 21:52:13 GMT -6
I wasn't trying to be belligerent, just short I guess. I don't think you can compare Augie and Northern to USD and SDSU because it is becoming an apples to oranges comparison. Cost of the games and the day they are scheduled are huge factors. If the Summit went back to Fri/Sat doubleheaders you would see a tremendous rise in attendance. I don't understand why we don't go to Friday/Saturday games or at least Thursday/Saturday games. They don't have to be straight doubleheaders, maybe keep the men's & women's game separate and do day/night doubleheaders so the arena can be readied for the night game. Just make it so the men and women are playing on the same day in the same town. IIRC back in the day the Summit had some double headers if not all games and what I heard was that some of the people associated with WBB didn't like double headers as it made the women's game seem like an opening act or a lessor event. Also with nearly all MBB games being televised to some extent it made double headers more difficult as the men's game needed a hard start time and if the women's game went to overtime it screwed everything up. |
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dave
Sophomore Member
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Post by dave on Apr 3, 2018 21:56:05 GMT -6
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Post by gopheryote on Apr 4, 2018 7:27:51 GMT -6
Oh my...so many things not right...could make all the B-Schooler's heads explode... |
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Post by kiyoat on Apr 4, 2018 10:54:29 GMT -6
----MBB-School----endowment (millions) ----1629 Denver-------------------711----2139 North Dakota-------------231
----2192 South Dakota------------214----3832 NDSU---------------------202----1334 UMKC---------------------195----2310 Summit League Ave-----1876. -1965 Washburn-------------158----2321 SDSU---------------------1364. -2557 Fort Hays State-------91
22. 1374 Emporia State--------84----1307 Northern Colorado-------8312. 1548 Drury------------------74----1815 Omaha--------------------722. -2661 Augustana-------------677. -1922 Nebraska-Kearney----50----1961 Fort Wayne---------------468. -1851 Central Missouri------43----2827 Oral Roberts--------------4016. 1487 Missouri Southern----34-----777 Western Illinois-----------321. -3552 Northern State--------2920. 1368 NW Missouri State---27
VERY LOW ENDOWMENT- NOT VIABLE25. 1287 Colorado St-Pueblo--185. -2033 SW Minnesota State---3Although I think that athletic budget is probably a better measure of athletic viability, the school's endowment is a good measure of how "rich" a school is, and how deep-pocketed their alumni are. It's a lot easier to find than budget numbers, too. The three Kansas MIAA schools Washburn, Fort Hayes State and Emporia State look good in this assessment, and the otherwise-strong Missouri schools are a little more poor. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Sun_Intercollegiate_Conferenceen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-America_Intercollegiate_Athletics_Associationen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summit_League |
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Post by aldewitt on Apr 6, 2018 17:28:56 GMT -6
There was a time when a lot of people wanted the NCC to move up as a whole. Augie and Morningside were often considered unlikely to move. Morningside moved down. Now Augie seems ready to move up. Why not? There has to be an entry level conference somehwere to welcome schools with ambitions like Augustana and UNO. The SL is certainly one of those and in a lot of ways is becoming the old NCC. Augie was competitive then and will be a contributing member to the SL. Eventually, sooner rather than later is my guess, they will get the auto-bid to the NCAA.
Another plus for the SL, they have baseball.
To move up they will have to do something with wrestling and football.
Football? I doubt they drop it but who knows, is there a good high school team that could use their stadium? Could they use it for men's soccer?
They currently offer 8 men's sports and 10 for women including soccer. I dont know how many they have to offer for men or women. What they would do with wrestling has to be a big question mark.
It doesn't look like a slam dunk but i am in favor of Augie to the Summit League. If you love the underdog you have to love the doggies.
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Post by Coyote Fan on Apr 6, 2018 18:03:09 GMT -6
When it comes to Augustana I am pretty much convinced that it is more so "when" they move up and no longer "if". People look at it as the old NCC but last I knew the NCC sponsored football and the Summit does not. That is a pretty big exclusion considering football is either the most important or certainly one of the most important sports. I don't look at the UNO rivalry quite the same now as I did and if Augie doesn't have scholarship football I will think of it the same with them.
I am of the belief or in other words predict that Augustana will announce a D1 move before the fall athletic season begins. Maybe much sooner than that. It certainly is not a guarantee.
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