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Post by Yotes on Mar 24, 2018 9:55:00 GMT -6
I think that if we need Augustana to help secure the future of the Summit, that the Summit is not a conference worth being a part of. Just leave for the Big Sky (if we haven't already) at that point.
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Post by Coyote Fan on Mar 24, 2018 16:03:14 GMT -6
I think that if we need Augustana to help secure the future of the Summit, that the Summit is not a conference worth being a part of. Just leave for the Big Sky (if we haven't already) at that point. I know this is part of another discussion but you could make an argument (no matter how small that arguments merits are) that the Summit Tourney being in Sioux Falls may be on the verge of costing USD it's Men's basketball coach. USD should be exploring all options as far as conference affiliation and if need be they should do it on their own. |
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Post by yoteforever on Mar 24, 2018 19:05:04 GMT -6
I think that if we need Augustana to help secure the future of the Summit, that the Summit is not a conference worth being a part of. Just leave for the Big Sky (if we haven't already) at that point. I know this is part of another discussion but you could make an argument (no matter how small that arguments merits are) that the Summit Tourney being in Sioux Falls may be on the verge of costing USD it's Men's basketball coach. USD should be exploring all options as far as conference affiliation and if need be they should do it on their own. The Summit League Tournament is a reason Smith would leave? Is that what you’re saying? |
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Post by Coyote Fan on Mar 24, 2018 21:25:34 GMT -6
There are many reasons that Smith would choose to leave but the Summit Tourney being in Sioux Falls creating a huge advantage for one particular school could definitely play a part in his overall ability to get a team that he coaches to the NCAA Tournament. (sorry for the run on sentence) Last I knew one of the most important assets for a coaches resume is their NCAA tourney appearances. He did everything he could to prepare this team to reach their goal but the big advantage SDSU has in that building played a pretty big factor in the game. It felt like that no matter what the Coyotes did that the crowd willed the Jacks in that game. It gave them huge energy and rattled the Coyote men as well as the women. Look what the women have done in the WNIT and tell me that the big advantage that the Jacks have in that building is not HUGE. The Coyotes are playing and beating consistently teams as good as SDSU at home where they have a big advantage and have won 6 of the last 8 regular season games. The Jacks dominance at the tourney is the elephant in the room that no one wants to admit or talk about. No #1 seed at a conference tourney should ever have to face the kind of a disadvantage that the Coyotes have. The women 3 times in 4 years and the men once. That is more than just an anomaly but a big time trend.
If Smith does indeed leave that is a blow. He made the Coyotes a good program but also left USD empty handed when it came to the ultimate goal.
Now Yoteforever it is time to respond in a positive way to some of the other posts.
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Post by Yote 53 on Mar 25, 2018 8:03:03 GMT -6
USD fans have the same opportunity to buy SLT tickets. I don't see the point in whining about this. There is nothing unfair going on here other than there should probably be a reseating in the future.
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Post by Coyote Fan on Mar 25, 2018 11:34:03 GMT -6
USD fans have the same opportunity to buy SLT tickets. I don't see the point in whining about this. There is nothing unfair going on here other than there should probably be a reseating in the future. No one is arguing that but the reality is they don't buy into their teams as much as SDSU fans do when it comes to this tourney. As of now it is SDSU's tourney until further notice. If all game were at the locations that drew the most fans than SDSU would host every single conference game at their arena because it would be for the better for the league for revenue purposes. Maybe SDSU can host Omaha say thanks for the game "Here is you paycheck for the extra revenue generated and by the way here is your complimentary loss in the standings as well" Things are not always about revenue or fan interest. There is a competitive fairness that should be considered as well but maybe in this day and age that just isn't relevant anymore. |
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Post by Yote 53 on Mar 25, 2018 13:15:20 GMT -6
Competitive fairness? If USD, or any other school, wants fair then their fans should pack the arena. Otherwise we really have nobody to blame but ourselves.
Time to get off this SLT mantra, CF. You're making us all look bad. If you want to make the argument the regular season winner should be the rep for the NCAAs, I am on your side. I think a conference tournament is stupid because it rewards the hot team, not the best team, and it devalues the season. But to complain about it not being fair because we don't fill the stands with red, that is just whining.
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Post by kiyoat on Mar 25, 2018 13:21:47 GMT -6
So, back to the thread topic: baseball and Northern Colorado. Adding them as an affiliate member in baseball could be a good way to possibly add them as a full member in the future. The Big Sky doesn't sponsor that sport, so they currently play in the Wiggidy-WAC. Thoughts?
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Post by Coyote Fan on Mar 25, 2018 13:35:11 GMT -6
So, back to the thread topic: baseball and Northern Colorado. Adding them as an affiliate member in baseball could be a good way to possibly add them as a full member in the future. The Big Sky doesn't sponsor that sport, so they currently play in the Wiggidy-WAC. Thoughts? For me they are a good addition compared to Auggie or UMKC. They have a strong men's and women's basketball program which is what the league needs. If they were to join the MVFC or Summit in football that would actually be a game that would not be a complete black and blue grinder game which is not horrible at this point. The MVFC is almost too strong right now. |
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Post by gopheryote on Mar 25, 2018 14:58:25 GMT -6
Not sure this belongs here, but it is related...
A big problem SL has at this point is that it is the weakest conference in our region. This may be a tough pill to swallow, but the SL isn't respected by anyone, nor should it be. MBB has what, 1 win in the past ten years in the NCAA? WBB - our star sport - has never received an at-large bid. There are certainly worse conferences, but not in the Midwest. As such, no one in our footprint *desires* to join the SL and there is not really anyone to poach. We are kind of forced to recruit in schools that don't fit a perfect profile today, but can come along with a 'high tide rises all boats' scenario.
I would say a good measuring stick is that the MBB HC average comp should be $350-$400K. If you can't afford that, then don't move from D2 to D1 (Augie) or move from the WAC (UMKC). But that also means the 4 Dakotas need to get their comp up there to start the high tide. (I'd like USD's new coach to make $400K+.) Otherwise people like Smith, Otz, Miles, Phillips, etc. will keep jumping to high-mid-majors after a few years vs. a P6 opportunity after 5-7 years, as an example. Tough to build a truly respectable conference that way.
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Post by yoteforever on Mar 25, 2018 20:40:59 GMT -6
There are many reasons that Smith would choose to leave but the Summit Tourney being in Sioux Falls creating a huge advantage for one particular school could definitely play a part in his overall ability to get a team that he coaches to the NCAA Tournament. (sorry for the run on sentence) Last I knew one of the most important assets for a coaches resume is their NCAA tourney appearances. He did everything he could to prepare this team to reach their goal but the big advantage SDSU has in that building played a pretty big factor in the game. It felt like that no matter what the Coyotes did that the crowd willed the Jacks in that game. It gave them huge energy and rattled the Coyote men as well as the women. Look what the women have done in the WNIT and tell me that the big advantage that the Jacks have in that building is not HUGE. The Coyotes are playing and beating consistently teams as good as SDSU at home where they have a big advantage and have won 6 of the last 8 regular season games. The Jacks dominance at the tourney is the elephant in the room that no one wants to admit or talk about. No #1 seed at a conference tourney should ever have to face the kind of a disadvantage that the Coyotes have. The women 3 times in 4 years and the men once. That is more than just an anomaly but a big time trend. If Smith does indeed leave that is a blow. He made the Coyotes a good program but also left USD empty handed when it came to the ultimate goal. Now Yoteforever it is time to respond in a positive way to some of the other posts. In all honesty I was going to compliment your positive posts of late. High fives to you. I think you interpreted my question to you as taking a shot at you, and as I reread it I could see why you would, but i really wanted to know if that’s what you truly thought and that’s why I asked the question. No malice intended I assure you |
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Post by kiyoat on Apr 3, 2018 10:35:06 GMT -6
There has been some discussion about Division II Candidates for the Summit League, and whether or not they could/should make the move. This isn't just about Augustana, as Douple has mentioned the possibility of D-II candidates in the past. There are many ways to see how these schools/teams would "stack up" as Division 1. One way that I think is critical would be fan/community support. Some places have all the potential in the world, but without fan interest and community support they will have a more difficult climb. Here are the 2017 best average MBB attendance Division II schools (with midwest schools highlighted and Summit League added)
----5010 Missouri Valley Average
----4633 All-Division I Average
----3832 NDSU
1. -3552 Northern State
----2969 WAC Average
----2827 Oral Roberts
----2723 Horizon League Average
2. -2661 Augustana
3. -2660 Dixie State
4. -2557 Fort Hays State
----2321 SDSU
----2310 Summit League Average
----2192 South Dakota
----2139 North Dakota
----2098 Big Sky Average
----2058 Ohio Valley Average
5. -2033 SW Minnesota State
6. -1965 Washburn
----1961 Fort Wayne
7. -1922 Nebraska-Kearney
8. -1851 Central Missouri
----1815 Omaha
9. -1721 Bellarmie
10. 1635 Alabama-Huntsville
----1629 Denver
11. 1576 Winston-Salem
12. 1548 Drury
13. 1545 West Georgia
14. 1527 Tarleton State
15. 1502 Virginia Union
16. 1487 Missouri Southern
[...]
20. 1368 NW Missouri State
[...]
22. 1374 Emporia State
----1334 UMKC
----1307 Northern Colorado
----1307 MIAA Average (best in D-II)
[...]
25. 1287 Colorado State-Pueblo
[...]
-----1157 Northern Sun Average (2nd best in D-II)
-----777 Western Illinois
-----642 All-Division-II Average
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Post by kiyoat on Apr 3, 2018 10:44:32 GMT -6
^^ At least in terms of fan support there are several D-II teams in the conference footprint that fit the Summit League profile very well. size and money might limit some of these schools, but I haven't done that comparison. Besides Augie there are a number of MIAA schools in Kansas and Missouri that might merit a look, especially those that are in Urban campuses like Washburn (Topeka, KS) or Drury (Springfield, MO)
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Post by elcoyote on Apr 3, 2018 11:39:48 GMT -6
Very nice work. Interesting to see that many of the D2s have stronger attendance figures than the D1s do. I was surprised to say the least that Augie's attendance was larger than either USD or SDSU. Product of being located in Sioux Falls? Certainly can't hurt.
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Post by kiyoat on Apr 3, 2018 11:57:45 GMT -6
Very nice work. Interesting to see that many of the D2s have stronger attendance figures than the D1s do. I was surprised to say the least that Augie's attendance was larger than either USD or SDSU. Product of being located in Sioux Falls? Certainly can't hurt. I don't know, but looking back at several years worth, Augie and Northern have had that attendance level consistently for a long time. USD's attendance was actually a lot better in the NCC, and that wasn't that long ago. I think the familiarity of playing regional rivals is a factor. Augustana fans will travel to Vermillion and Brookings regularly. If that is true, then adding Augie could actually be a net gain for the Summit in terms of attendance. SDSU and NDSU are already the highest-attended games in Vermillion. Add UND and Augie, and you will see the overall numbers rise IMO. As a Sioux Falls-based Yotes fan, I would love to be able to watch them play at Augie. You can make the crowded resources argument, and that's a valid point, but in terms of fans I think it would be hard to say it wouldn't be a good thing. Our scope has become less local and more regional/national in recruiting, so I guess I don't feel threatened by Augie there. |
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