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Post by usdcoyote on Mar 13, 2018 10:29:45 GMT -6
I think the scheduling was fine, we just needed to win a few more of those games. We played Tennessee, Oklahoma St, Creighton, Iowa St, Wichita State, at Stephen Austin. Our schedule doesn't look a whole lot different than State's. Now they did have some big name teams visit Brookings, obviously those games aren't easy to get. Our RPI would have looked different had we beat Tulsa and Iowa St, or maybe Stephen F Austin. I'm not even saying beat Tennessee or Okla St, but the games I mentioned are very winnable games. Creighton was a good win, just ask State how good they are. However, outside of that we were probably lacking a real signature out of conference win. Don't get me wrong, I still feel we should have been in and I feel we were better than some teams that got in, but I'm just saying it's not because our administration didn't schedule anyone.
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Post by kiyoat on Mar 13, 2018 10:40:10 GMT -6
I think the scheduling was fine, we just needed to win a few more of those games. We played Tennessee, Oklahoma St, Creighton, Iowa St, Wichita State, at Stephen Austin. Our schedule doesn't look a whole lot different than State's. Now they did have some big name teams visit Brookings, obviously those games aren't easy to get. Our RPI would have looked different had we beat Tulsa and Iowa St, or maybe Stephen F Austin. I'm not even saying beat Tennessee or Okla St, but the games I mentioned are very winnable games. Creighton was a good win, just ask State how good they are. However, outside of that we were probably lacking a real signature out of conference win. Don't get me wrong, I still feel we should have been in and I feel we were better than some teams that got in, but I'm just saying it's not because our administration didn't schedule anyone. Yeah, I tend to agree with this. I think the problem lies more with the middle and bottom tiers of our non-conference schedule. We upgrade some of the "bottom" teams to more "middle" teams and we would increase our SOS a great deal. Being able to get the big fish on the schedule will improve as our national reputation improves. Also, we started this season a little rocky, anyway. This isn't the same team that lost to Tulsa and SFA. The improvement through the season was exponential, and I have to think that coaching played a big role. Coach P and staff earned that "Coach of the Year" IMHO. |
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steelsd
Sophomore Member
Posts: 168 
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Post by steelsd on Mar 13, 2018 11:14:51 GMT -6
I think the scheduling was fine, we just needed to win a few more of those games. We played Tennessee, Oklahoma St, Creighton, Iowa St, Wichita State, at Stephen Austin. Our schedule doesn't look a whole lot different than State's. Now they did have some big name teams visit Brookings, obviously those games aren't easy to get. Our RPI would have looked different had we beat Tulsa and Iowa St, or maybe Stephen F Austin. I'm not even saying beat Tennessee or Okla St, but the games I mentioned are very winnable games. Creighton was a good win, just ask State how good they are. However, outside of that we were probably lacking a real signature out of conference win. Don't get me wrong, I still feel we should have been in and I feel we were better than some teams that got in, but I'm just saying it's not because our administration didn't schedule anyone. Really? Here's SDSU's schedule:
Teams in the NCAA tournament: George Washington Wisconsin Green Bay NC State Louisville Oklahoma Creighton Drake Florida Gulf Coast
Teams in WNIT: Northern Iowa USD WIU
So that's 11 different teams we faced that are playing tournament basketball, 9 of them are out of conference.
USD's Schedule:
Team's in NCAA tournament: Creighton Oklahoma State Tennessee SDSU
Teams in the WNIT: WIU SFA
WBI: CSU Bakersfield
So the USD schedule included 7 different teams that made the post season, but only 5 are out of conference and only 3 made the NCAA tourney (versus 8 on SDSU's schedule).
So I'm sorry, but these two schedules do NOT look the same. As kiyoat pointed out very well, you could improve the middle tier of your schedule while still getting a couple of P5 games and that would go a long way. I have no doubt that scheduling is hard, but you can't tell me that there aren't other teams in our same situation that aren't looking for good quality mid major games to up their RPI. I would guess that teams like Belmont, Gonzaga, Central Michigan, Quinnipiac, Northern Colorado, etc. wouldn't be interested in a home/away scenario since you would help them out as much as they would help you. SDSU finds a way to do it every year, are you saying you guys can't pull it off down there with your new facilities and quality program?
Again, I won't argue that USD isn't better than a handful of teams that are in the NCAA's. You can either try and schedule strong teams and have a good enough team yourself to win a bunch of those and put yourself in consideration for an at large. Or you can put all you eggs into winning the SLT. I'm certainly not saying you need to get a Louisville or Notre Dame on your home court every year. But you can't tell me the scare SDSU put into Louisville didn't factor into our seed or the fact we were a strong consideration for an at large.
So I guess we can disagree on this, but certainly an interesting point to debate.
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Post by Yote 53 on Mar 13, 2018 12:25:57 GMT -6
Good grief. The only thing you missed was "SDSU blazed the trail". The Jacks had a losing record against USD this year. Congratulations, you won the one freaking game that counted. You all want to know what is a complete drag on attendance and will be going forward? We've had this conversation here before about why people don't attend games. Well, this week you got Exhibit A as to why attendance suffers, because none of these regular season games mean anything. The USD women go undefeated in the conference, what is their reward? The USD men had one chance to make the NCAA's and that was the SLT. What is the point of the regular season? Seeding? LOL, okay, look at where the Jacks have been seeded. Some reward. Just win enough games to get into the SLT and then go on a 3 game run. That's the trail that SDSU blazed for USD and the one that we should be focused on. Nothing matters but Sioux Falls. Really? It's not like SDSU was nearly a lock to make it in even had they not won the Summit League Tournament, huh? Guess maybe the regular season actually might mean something if you don't fill your non-conference schedule with creampuffs and lose to some of them.
As far as blazing the trail, one team had set themselves up for an at large and one hadn't. Maybe the team that hadn't might look to the one that had (or any of another other mid major teams that try to set themselves up for this) and do what they did. But trying to have a discussion with you is a waste since you will probably just ban me again since you can't really refute the fact that SDSU was probably going to get in even had they not won the SLT, so the "regular season is just for conference seeding" argument is crap. Hopefully your administration is smarter than you are and is actually going to try a model of setting themselves up with a schedule that gets them in consideration for at large. You have the players, just need the scheduling.
SDSU was not a guarantee to make the tournament. Any mid-major program that does not win their conference tournament is always at risk of getting left out. The Jacks had already lost to the Coyotes twice, a third loss to USD could have been enough to keep them out, or just the excuse the committee needed to keep them out is probably a better way to put it. The Jacks had to win that game to get in. Yes, you are dancing right on the edge of getting banned again. Look up the posts where I lay out the ground rules about personal attacks and inflammatory posts. |
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steelsd
Sophomore Member
Posts: 168
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Post by steelsd on Mar 13, 2018 12:47:03 GMT -6
Really? It's not like SDSU was nearly a lock to make it in even had they not won the Summit League Tournament, huh? Guess maybe the regular season actually might mean something if you don't fill your non-conference schedule with creampuffs and lose to some of them.
As far as blazing the trail, one team had set themselves up for an at large and one hadn't. Maybe the team that hadn't might look to the one that had (or any of another other mid major teams that try to set themselves up for this) and do what they did. But trying to have a discussion with you is a waste since you will probably just ban me again since you can't really refute the fact that SDSU was probably going to get in even had they not won the SLT, so the "regular season is just for conference seeding" argument is crap. Hopefully your administration is smarter than you are and is actually going to try a model of setting themselves up with a schedule that gets them in consideration for at large. You have the players, just need the scheduling.
SDSU was not a guarantee to make the tournament. Any mid-major program that does not win their conference tournament is always at risk of getting left out. The Jacks had already lost to the Coyotes twice, a third loss to USD could have been enough to keep them out, or just the excuse the committee needed to keep them out is probably a better way to put it. The Jacks had to win that game to get in.Yes, you are dancing right on the edge of getting banned again. Look up the posts where I lay out the ground rules about personal attacks and inflammatory posts. Really? Charlie Crème didn't agree with you... The simple fact is the "regular season is only for conference seeding narrative" you are pushing has been blown out of the water by SDSU.
Personally, I would love to see a bunch of the upper tier mid major teams get together and make a pseudo conference where they agree to a set of home/away games in an effort to help each other out on the RPI front so we can all survive the hit we take in conference. Could certainly create some interesting rivalries and maybe even fan support knowing quality teams are coming in to play you every year.
I certainly don't trust the UNO, IPFW, Denvers of our conference to do their part and actually catch us. Really just seems that SDSU/USD are gradually pulling away from everyone else. Yes each of them may have a year or two where they strike gold with a recruiting class and maybe a transfer, but don't see them doing it consistently. It's the reason that ORU and WIU have taken turns near/at the top followed by years at the bottom. No consistency outside the South Dakota schools right now. So we are going to need RPI boosters out of conference if the loser legitimately wants to have a chance at an at large bid.
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Post by gopheryote on Mar 13, 2018 13:33:11 GMT -6
I agree with steelesd that if USD had a better schedule, they would have been in the conversation for an at-large. However, almost everything else stated is either garbage or mis-leading. Look at the NCAA team sheets themselves:
SDSU vs. top 50 RPI: 2-3
USD vs. top 50: 3-2
PAUSE: Yotes played 5 top-50 games, rabbits 5. Come again with the scheduling thing?
SDSU vs. top 100 RPI: 5-6
USD vs. top 100: 3-3
There is the separation, though it is hard (impossible?) to get past the fact that SDSU had a losing record against the top 100. No one would have guessed that ISU, SFA, WSU, and UND would all be out of the top 100 when the schedule was set.
But, in direct contrast to what steelesd said earlier, we know that scheduling for hoops is nothing like schedule for football, and the 'administration' doesn't set games. Coach P was in her second year, meaning she had little time to develop the schedule that was played this year. She has coached in the Big 10, and we will no doubt see some Big 10 teams on the schedule going forward. But the deck was kind of stacked against her this past year.
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Post by easmus on Mar 13, 2018 13:47:43 GMT -6
I wouldn’t be surprised if we see USD WBB on Nebraska schedule now that Amy has made the tournament in year 2. No worries about being embarrassed by her old recruits anymore.
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dave
Sophomore Member
Posts: 112
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Post by dave on Mar 13, 2018 13:51:56 GMT -6
You guys had a respectable OOC schedule, was there room for improvement, sure there always is. What really kills RPI is the conference schedule. We really need the perennial cellar dwellers in the Summit, (cough ndsu cough) to get their crap together and field a half way respectable team. It would really help if they could raise thier rpi to at least the middle of the pack of the NCAA.
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Post by yoteforever on Mar 13, 2018 14:15:38 GMT -6
Here’s the bottom line. Each fan base can take certain positions regarding “their team” and be correct. I honestly believe if USD played SDSU 25 Times it would go 13-12 one team or the other being up one. No Coyote fan can deny the 800 lb gorilla in the room and that’s winning an NCAA berth by winning the tournament. Once we do that, then we can have discussions about having the upper hand. Until then, we can talk about winning regular season titles and they can talk about winning the SL Tourney. Nothing is going to change until one of us wins both. Then you flex your muscle.
Women’s basketball in some regards is the one sport that reflects the advantage the Jacks have on us by being D1 longer. Prior to USD going D1, they had basically elevated their program at a fast rate and somewhat dominating the Summit League. Then the Coyotes entered the picture and AJ was no longer the only game in town. USD hired Amy Williams and the race was on. USD ascended at a very fast pace as did SDSU when they first moved to D1. But there’s no experience like experience. The lady Jacks have had to play in “big” games for 5 years before we did, and that experience has helped them confidence wise. By them being D1 longer, and having sustainable success, they’ve had more opportunities to schedule a tougher schedule. You can argue no one wants to come to Vermillion because of travel issues, but it’s a relative push when comparing to Brookings as they have to fly to Sioux Falls either way and bus an hour either way. USD women’s basketball is fast becoming a household name in the area, and once that happens then we will also schedule opponents similar to SDSU.
The reality of the situation is “he who laughs last....laughs hardest”. We dominate the Jacks in the regular season, and they dominated us in the conference tourney. Two years ago when they beat us and we were regular season champs and went on to win the WNIT, I think that tournament did more for our program than being a “one and done” in the ncaa’s. It gave us national exposure, and we beat some Power 5 schools long the way. This year my preference would’ve been to win the tourney and make an NCAA berth, but if we play in the WNIT and go far, that’s not an entirely bad thing. Let’s face it, SDSU might win the first round game (might) but then they go home. If we play 3-6 games and beat some “name” programs, once again it might be the best thing that happened once we shelve our bruised pride.
Here are the facts that are indisputable. We won the Summit League regular season title by going undefeated. No one has done that since 1994. No one. We beat the Jacks twice in regular season. I’m not sure when that happened last, but that’s saying something because they are a really good team. We were just better for 100 days or so. Our fan base feels by winning 2 of 3 we are better ( and I’m one of them ) and the SDSU fan base clings to the fact they couldn’t get it done regular season but did come up and bite us in the butt in the tournament. Without that win, they would be bunkered down staying out of sight. But they won, so be decent sports about it, and move on.
I know one thing. If you interviewed 100 fans....50 Jacks and 50 Coyotes that are knowledgeable in the sport, and asked them what team will dominate the state and Summit League the next 5 years without any changes in coaching staffs, I’d bet the women that wear red would win that poll about 66-34. Anybody that knows and understands the game, if they had to bet their life on the outcome, the majority would bet on USD. Now if the wager was $5, the vote would be 50-50. But if your life was bet on it, and not $5, there’s no doubt in my mind the votes would come USD’s way. AJ is no longer the central figure in women’s basketball in the state of South Dakota or the Summit League. There’s a coach named Dawn that has covered that once so bright spotlight that shined on AJ and pointed it towards Vermillion. Long term, I’m damned glad I’m a Coyote.
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Post by Yote 53 on Mar 13, 2018 14:22:38 GMT -6
You sir get a +1 for that post.
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Post by yoteforever on Mar 13, 2018 14:27:07 GMT -6
Can you tell me what we can expect from Ryun Williams was he liked at USD. No one really answered your question and I’m not sure if I’m qualified to,do,so or not, but I’ll take a run at it. Ryun Williams is a really good coach, that also has one hell of an assistant coach. They have good basketball minds and I think the one thing they do really well is create a game plan to offset the opponent. His teams can run, they can also play in a slow down half court game as well as most. Ryun will get a lot out of the talent he has. From your perspective, I would say a game against CSU would be a lot like playing the Coyotes. |
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Post by yoteforever on Mar 13, 2018 14:28:13 GMT -6
And yes, Ryun was really well liked.
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Post by Yotes on Mar 13, 2018 14:34:18 GMT -6
I'm so utterly exhausted of this never-ending bickering. Both programs have proven without a doubt over the past several years that they are NCAA caliber. The issue is the committee's bias against mid majors.
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Post by easmus on Mar 13, 2018 14:41:25 GMT -6
USD WBB beat SDSU both regular season games 2 years ago then lost in SLT final and went on to win WNIT. Seekamp hitba shot to win in Frost and I believe won big in the dome.
On a side note, I have a hunch that even if our ladies go to the finals of WNIT again the buzz won’t be as strong as last time since ilthe novelty won’t be there. Hope I’m wrong.
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Post by Coyote Fan on Mar 13, 2018 17:41:16 GMT -6
This is the dilemma that the women face as do the men somewhat. This post will focus on the women though. We are in a situation kind of in between a rock and a hard place. Right now the Summit is just not strong enough in the middle and especially at the bottom of the league. We can talk about playing a tougher schedule but I don't have a problem with who the Coyotes played non conference. It is the conference schedule that is hurting the most. So how does that improve? The Summit needs to become stronger but adding programs like UMKC and eventually Augustana may not help very much and could actually hurt. Look how the Vikings were dominated last night when they played a team with talent such as Central Missouri. The problem is it will be hard to team up with a strong program such as UNI or maybe even UNC (but they are much more realistic) if we insist to keep the tourney in Sioux Falls every year. That is going to be a non starter for most schools unless they are desperate such as UMKC may become or already are. The rock is the difficult time strengthening the conference and the hard place is the Coyotes having to run into the Jacks at the Summit tourney in a building that the Jacks have extremely high confidence in. Even when they lost twice to the Yotes they still felt like they would win the third meeting and sure enough they did and did so rather convincingly.
I think eventually the Summit will be strong enough to get 2 teams in, certainly before the men will but we don't know if that eventuality is 1 year from now or 20. The strength of women's basketball around this area will raise the profile of the chances of the Coyotes getting an at large bid.
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