Depth?

[yotebewithyou]

Oct 16, 2019 18:11:16 GMT -6 Yotes said:

Gibbs is gone.

I just don’t understand the timing of this. There’s gotta be more to the story.

[Yotes]

Oct 16, 2019 18:49:11 GMT -6 yotebewithyou said:

Oct 16, 2019 18:11:16 GMT -6 Yotes said:

Gibbs is gone.

I just don’t understand the timing of this. There’s gotta be more to the story.

I'm sure someone here will know more of what has happened behind the scenes, but it is frustrating to again lose an underclassmen who looked like they could contribute here. We've had way too much of this type of attrition.

[elcoyote]

Oct 16, 2019 18:49:11 GMT -6 yotebewithyou said:

Oct 16, 2019 18:11:16 GMT -6 Yotes said:

Gibbs is gone.

I just don’t understand the timing of this. There’s gotta be more to the story.

I don't understand the timing either. Any way you slice it or for what ever reason...it sucks. I hate to see him go. I hope he shines wherever he ends up. 

[DuluthYote91]

Here’s what happened...he didn’t get to play. He worked his ass off. He finally gets in and makes a great play, the coaches move him down to scout and he won’t get to play again this year. He will do great things, it just won’t be for USD. Too bad, he was an asset.

[coffeedrinker]

I know we aren't at practice so don't see what happens everyday, what that means is what is said here is just speculation. But..... From the number of players who retweeted his farewell and from watching the two games he got to carry the ball and the way the players reacted to him his work ethic was not a factor. Another issue is he is a local and we need to build our local brand. The team up North is the school the kids in the state think of as "the" school for the state. I also would like to know how he was told he was moved to the scout team. Any of us in management or leadership positions know that presentation of change can be a huge factor in the way it's perceived. Assuming what DuluthYote91 said is accurate "the coaches move him down to scout and he won’t get to play again this year" which is huge to a young man who lives and breaths football I hope the head coach was involved. If not I hope he will be involved in future decisions like this and involved with the discussion with the player. In addition I hope he talked to his coaches about the fallout from a decision like this.

X

[easmus]

It appeared we took some injuries last Saturday against UNI. I didn’t think Bianchi looked good at RT when he replaced Bianchi briefly to finish the 2nd. Jensen was out occasionally as well, with Wallace in for him. Peguero appeared to be hurt badly. I bring this up simply to say this isn’t year 1 for Bob. We need momentum and cannot fold again down the stretch. If there are freshman who are better than some other guys in the lines, I think we should play them if they’re our best chance to win. We need to win the next few games. Do that and beat SDSU you can finish 7-5. May not make the playoffs but it’s a winning season building momentum going into a newly renovated building.

[yoteolfan]

The Gibbs situation is a good example of how the assistant coaches treat players - especially Walk Ons and PWOs. The word I hear from the players I talk to is that a WO or PWO at USD, is just a piece of meat.

The coaches basically tell WOs/PWOs that you are here to be scout team players - that is it. Of course this isn't the story they are told when being recruited, but it quickly turns into that once practice starts. This is part of the reason why our upper classman depth is so weak. Why grind it out if even when you play or practice well, you get shoved back to the bottom of the depth chart, especially if you are a WO or PWO. Where is the incentive to stay?

How about building a culture of competition and development?

I cannot speak for all positions, but I do know that our OL coach has told many 1st and 2nd year players that he doesn't feel that they are good enough to play for him so they leave. Let's put this into perspective here. Are most High School Freshman or Sophomores ready to start Varsity? No Way - Only the freaks are and guess what - they usually end up playing for Power 5 schools. The rest need to develop physically and mentally over the course of their first 2-3 years. If the expectation of this coach is that all of his players will come into the program game ready - NO WONDER NDSU kicks our tails every year! NDSU takes the time to develop and mature their players by encouraging them to continue to grind it out, learn and get bigger and stronger. How many freshman start for NDSU or SDSU versus USD? Not many because of how they develop their players for the long run.

If you look at successful programs (NDSU, Wisconsin, Minnesota under PJ FLeck and even SDSU) you will see that they celebrate the WOs and PWOs that work hard and they encourage them and their younger players to keep grinding and earn playing time and/or a starting spot - even if it ends up being in their Senior year. USD doesn't do this. They seem to be trying to weed out the young players before they have a chance to develop.

We do have a depth problem, but in my opinion it can be fixed with a change in mindset by the position coaching staff. Bob needs to step in here and change the culture before it is too late.

I realize that this is a pretty harsh assessment for a Monday morning, but I have been having this discussion with quite a few people lately and they all seem to agree that this is an issue.

[bobo]

Be very careful when speculating why a kid decides to transfer out a school. Typically, the situation is much more complex than we know and involves lack of playing time or opportunity and kids tend to take the easy path nowadays to save eligibility. It is hard leaving high school as the Man and then going to college and having to earn the right to be the Man again. Players (we) have to understand that all the other guys at each position are working their tails off too and want the same thing, playing time!! Hard work doesn't guarantee anything, but you better do it to get an opportunity. Hopefully, Lincoln finds a good home where he see an opportunity to play faster.

[coyotecrazie5]

Probably our best player Darin Greenfield was a walk on at USD, he seemed to earn time and is now an All American.

[Yote 53]

Every player and every story is different. There is no doubt that Gibbs is a hard working and well liked young man, that much is evident by the outpouring of support he received on Twitter announcing his decision to transfer. It was my understanding that he was a scholarship player as he was a PWO at NDSU, decommitted and came to USD because we offered him a scholarship in the 2017 recruiting class, so I am confused by the PWO talk. After only two seasons in the program he decides to transfer, that's unfortunate, but I would point out he is a redshirt sophomore and, well frankly, I would expect a freshmen & sophomores to be on scout team or bouncing back and forth between scout team and working with the 3's or 2's. That's pretty much how college football works. It should take time, years, to move up the depth chart. In the end it is his decision to move on and I hope it works out well for him.

I know of other players, walk-ons, at USD that have worked just as hard, have switched positions when asked, have been grinding it out, and have worked their way into playing time. Bottom line is this, college football, especially at this level, is tough. It is physically grueling, mentally demanding, and competitive as hell. As a walk-on, you are going to have to show you are not only equal to a scholarship player, but better than that scholarship player you are competing against for playing time because the program has capital invested in that other player. Understand that when you come in, and know that there is a chance that no matter how hard you work you may be nothing more than a back-up or special teams player by the time you are a junior/senior, and there are no guarantees of that either. That's just the way it is.

[Yote 53]

Oct 21, 2019 7:52:38 GMT -6 yoteolfan said:

The Gibbs situation is a good example of how the assistant coaches treat players - especially Walk Ons and PWOs. The word I hear from the players I talk to is that a WO or PWO at USD, is just a piece of meat.

I cannot speak for all positions, but I do know that our OL coach has told many 1st and 2nd year players that he doesn't feel that they are good enough to play for him so they leave. Let's put this into perspective here. Are most High School Freshman or Sophomores ready to start Varsity? No Way - Only the freaks are and guess what - they usually end up playing for Power 5 schools. The rest need to develop physically and mentally over the course of their first 2-3 years. If the expectation of this coach is that all of his players will come into the program game ready - NO WONDER NDSU kicks our tails every year! NDSU takes the time to develop and mature their players by encouraging them to continue to grind it out, learn and get bigger and stronger. How many freshman start for NDSU or SDSU versus USD? Not many because of how they develop their players for the long run.

And specifically to the Gibbs situation, I point out the highlighted. He's been in the program for 2 years. Developing physically and mentally happens on the scout team. Most 1st, 2nd, and even 3rd year players spend time on the scout team, growing, maturing, developing, and biding their time. On one hand there are people saying he didn't get his chance and should be getting a chance to play. On the other hand there are posts saying we need to develop players over 2-3 years and bring them through the system. So which is it? Where do you all think that development happens? Where do you think NDSU and SDSU develop their 1st, 2nd, and 3rd year players? On scout team.

[fightsd]

That's too bad that Gibbs is leaving. Seemed like a hard runner from the little we've seen of him.

The conversation around walk on guys vs. scholarship guys is an interesting one to me. Unless things have really changed since I played (they certainly could have), I think the players are all treated the same. At least while I was there, everybody in the position group went to the same meetings, ran the same drills, got the same equipment, etc. Obviously the young guys are going to be on the scout team during team periods. Somebody has to play scout, that's just a part of college football.

You earn your chance to compete for playing time. If you're not getting the time you think you deserve, talk to your coach about it and figure out why. If it's something you can fix, fix it. If the coach thinks somebody else is ahead of you, you have 3 choices. 1) work harder and earn your shot 2) accept your role on the team or 3) leave

[yotefbfan]

This is a very interesting discussion regarding Scholarship Athletes and PWO Athletes. I would assume the coaches are smart enough to know that not every Scholarship Athlete pans out and the same is true that some PWO Athletes are better than the athlete you gave a scholarship to and may earn playing time and eventually a scholarship. I assume Greenfield was given a Scholarship at some point? It would be interesting to know how many scholarship athletes we currently have that started as PWOs? Without that information it is hard to judge what may or may not be happening in the program. Can someone ask Coach for that information? It would seem that that should be available?

I have kept some recent data myself and in 2016 we had 47 players join the team. Currently there are 20 players left and 3 have already graduated, Streveler, Brooks & Lewis. In 2017 we had 39 players join the team. There are 18 players left and 1 who graduated, Jennings. In 2018 we had 30 players join the team and currently 23 are still on the team. So what does this tell us about our depth? The USD coaching staff needed to bring in players and it looks like they took a lot of chances trying to find some diamonds in the rough. This means a lot of kids moved on as they either were not what the coaching staff was looking for or they found out that D1 football is more than they wanted. Each year we are bringing in less players which would tell me that our depth is improving. It is hard to compare with either XDSU team or other established teams with a history of success, because that success will bring in players all by itself. The process to build a winning program is difficult and hopefully we are getting closer each year.

It is tough when a good kid like Lincoln Gibbs leaves the program. While we all saw some potential, clearly the coaching staff felt that other players needed to see some playing time and that did not sit well with Lincoln. Are they correct? hard to say, time will tell. I remember that Nate Gunn was on the roster here in 2016 and left and has had a terrific career at D2 Minnesota St., was that a miss on our part or just the right place for Nate? Hopefully Lincoln can find the right place for him, but it would seem that between him and the coaching staff this was not going to happen at USD. The NCAA transfer portal has been a game changer for many kids as they now can move on if they are not happy in a program. I would guess that Gibbs is getting contacts from many schools interested in his service, but I also guess that will most likely be at a D2 school. I hope our coaching staff is pouring through that same transfer portal looking for talent looking move and to help fill areas of need on our roster, increase our talent, and increase our depth.

[sportschic]

My opinion on Gibbs leaving is that I do not agree with leaving in the middle of the season. To me it demonstrates an emotional knee jerk reaction. He should have finished the season and then if he wasn’t happy, of course move on.
I understand an athlete wanting to play and getting frustrated with coaching decisions but to me it doesn’t warrant leaving in the middle of a season.
I wish him luck and hope he finds a good home to hone his skills and play.

[Yotes]

Gibbs is a redshirt sophomore who is behind two juniors and a sophomore on the depth chart. I'm not sure when he was going to get meaningful carries if they weren't starting to come this year.