Depth?

[fightsd]

Oct 23, 2019 14:51:34 GMT -6 bobo said:

Many of the guys on the roster are on partial scholarships (some very significant players you would think deserve a Full). Sometimes at this level, the Full rides are used on kids that may not have the means or motivation to travel that far away from home to school. Hard to turn away from all of your school being paid for!! I know for a fact that 2 of our best WRs and our best LB are on very partial scholarships. Many programs also reserve the big $ for certain positions (QB, OL, DL) because they know you win in the trenches and you better have a dude at QB.

I think they also evaluate who qualifies for certain academic scholarships and grants. So some guys that are on partial athletic schollys may not be paying anything since other awards and grants cover the rest.

[saturdayskills]

Quite frankly I’m surprised there’s been no talk about all the press SDSU is getting today. The more I watch the more disgruntled I get. The Coaching Staff...from the bottom of the pile all the way up to the head coach (including our AD Director) need to take a page from SDSU playbook. I’m embarrassed that the “State” football team is SDSU. I can’t hardly stand it anymore...you walk into stores, bars, restaurants (outside of Vermillion) and see all blue. I don’t know who is in charge of recruiting in SD but step it up. We’ve got enough kids from Florida already. Obviously the teams up north are getting it done with in-state kids. If you want money...go to Florida and ask them. I don’t spend much but my dollars can be spent elsewhere...and I know I’m not the only one feeling this way! The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. What we’re doing isn’t working and I’m over it!

[Yotes]

Oct 26, 2019 9:03:57 GMT -6 saturdayskills said:

Quite frankly I’m surprised there’s been no talk about all the press SDSU is getting today. The more I watch the more disgruntled I get. The Coaching Staff...from the bottom of the pile all the way up to the head coach (including our AD Director) need to take a page from SDSU playbook. I’m embarrassed that the “State” football team is SDSU. I can’t hardly stand it anymore...you walk into stores, bars, restaurants (outside of Vermillion) and see all blue. I don’t know who is in charge of recruiting in SD but step it up. We’ve got enough kids from Florida already. Obviously the teams up north are getting it done with in-state kids. If you want money...go to Florida and ask them. I don’t spend much but my dollars can be spent elsewhere...and I know I’m not the only one feeling this way! The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. What we’re doing isn’t working and I’m over it!

There is a separate thread on the event this morning, are you upset that we aren't talking about blowing up the team when the season is far from over? I want the program to elevate and the next step for me is regular playoff appearances. It's pretty hard to rope in the bandwagon fans when you don't have impact games. A rough start this year with a new defense has us behind the 8 ball on starting that this year unfortunately, but we've looked like a playoff team since then. Now to maintain and build on that. If we can't, then yes it's time for change.

Your comment about the other Dakotas succeeding with in-state kids has me curious. I went and pulled the most recent game notes, I'm going to work on posting the breakdown of where everyone's players hail from. Of course we generally know what it looks like but I want the full numbers laid out.

[fightsd]

Oct 26, 2019 9:03:57 GMT -6 saturdayskills said:

Quite frankly I’m surprised there’s been no talk about all the press SDSU is getting today. The more I watch the more disgruntled I get. The Coaching Staff...from the bottom of the pile all the way up to the head coach (including our AD Director) need to take a page from SDSU playbook. I’m embarrassed that the “State” football team is SDSU. I can’t hardly stand it anymore...you walk into stores, bars, restaurants (outside of Vermillion) and see all blue. I don’t know who is in charge of recruiting in SD but step it up. We’ve got enough kids from Florida already. Obviously the teams up north are getting it done with in-state kids. If you want money...go to Florida and ask them. I don’t spend much but my dollars can be spent elsewhere...and I know I’m not the only one feeling this way! The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. What we’re doing isn’t working and I’m over it!

What do you have against the kids from Florida? It's no question that the talent pool is MUCH deeper in Florida than it is in SD. On a given year class there's maybe a handful of SD kids that end up being contributors for either state school. I don't have those numbers, so please fact check that and I'll be happy to concede that point. I'd rather go get better athletes out of Florida than take chances on in state kids that may or may not develop into D1 athletes. Gotta get the kids you need to win football games, not feel good hometown kids out of Bridgewater-Emery-Ethan (random SD team that came to mind, no player I'm referencing specifically) that are not D1 athletes.

And everybody is aware of the ESPN media circus in Brookings. What do you want USD to do about it? All we can do is start winning games and become a contender in FCS. And even then, gameday won't come to Vermilion unless we're playing the Bison. You realize that's the only reason they're in Brookings today, right?

[Yotes]

Here is the breakdown of kids and where they are from, based on the depth charts from the latest game notes. I went with the depth chart instead of full roster because I'm most interested in impact players.

The first number is total kids on the depth chart, second number is kids who are listed as a starter, then positions of those starters. I've also got the percentage that each state makes up each depth chart as sdsu has way more guys listed on theirs than everyone else (everyone has just the 22 starters though).

SDSU 53 players listed on depth chart

SD - 13/4 LT, LG, WR, DT 24.5%
MN - 13/4 RT, TE, DE, FS 24.5%
IL - 7/3 QB, CB, CB 13.2%
NE - 6/5 C, WR, FB, DE, SS 11.3%
IA - 4/4 RG, NT, LB, LB 7.5%
FL - 4/1 WR 7.5%
WI - 3/0 5.7%
AR - 1/1 RB 1.9%
AZ - 1/0 1.9%
PA - 1/0 1.9%

NDSU 43 players listed on depth chart

MN - 16/10 LT, LG, RG, TE, QB, FB, WR, NG, CB, FS 37.2%
ND - 8/4 C, RT, RB, LB 18.6%
FL - 4/2 WR, CB 9.3%
WI - 4/1 DE 9.3%
MO - 3/1 LB 7.0%
SD - 3/1 DE 7.0%
CA - 2/1 LB 4.7%
IL - 2/0 4.7%
GA - 1/0 2.3%

USD 44 players listed on depth chart

IA - 10/7 QB, WR, TE, RG, RT, DE, LB 22.7%
FL - 9/4 S, CB, LB, RB 20.4%
KS - 5/1 CB 11.4%
IL - 4/2 S, LG 9.1%
CA - 3/2 WR, DT 6.8%
NE - 3/2 DT, LB 6.8%
MN - 3/2 LT, LB 6.8%
WI - 2/1 C 4.5%
SD - 2/0 4.5%
MO - 2/0 4.5%
CO - 1/0 2.3%

UND 45 players listed on depth chart

MN - 15/9 LT, C, RT, WR, WR, DT, LB, LB, LB 33.3%
WI - 7/5 LG, DE, LB, CB, S 15.6%
CO - 5/1 CB 11.1%
CA - 5/2 QB, S 11.1%
ND - 3/2 WR, RB 6.7%
CANADA - 3/2 RG, DE 6.7%
IL - 2/0 4.4%
IN - 1/0 2.2%
NE - 1/1 TE 2.2%
SD - 1/0 2.2%
MI - 1/0 2.2%
NETHERLANDS - 1/0 2.2%

[Yotes]

Here is the breakdown based on the full rosters:

SDSU 109 players on roster

AZ - 3
AR - 1
FL - 7
IL - 12
IA - 10
KS - 1
MD - 1
MN - 20
MO - 2
NE - 14
PA - 1
SD - 29
WI - 7
CANADA - 1

NDSU 112 players on roster

CA - 2
CO - 1
FL - 8
GA - 3
IA - 4
IL - 11
IN - 1
KS - 1
MN - 35
MO - 5
ND - 17
OH - 1
SD - 4
TX - 2
WI - 16
WY - 1

USD 103 players on roster

CA - 5
CO - 1
FL - 16
IA - 25
IL - 8
KS - 8
MN - 11
MO - 10
NE - 7
SD - 6
WI - 6

UND 104 players on roster

AZ - 1
CANADA - 9
CO - 8
IA - 1
IL - 8
IN - 2
MA - 1
MI - 2
MN - 33
ND - 16
NE - 1
NETHERLANDS - 3
NV - 1
PA - 1
SD - 1
TX - 1
WA - 1
WI - 14

[Yotes]

Oct 26, 2019 9:03:57 GMT -6 saturdayskills said:

Quite frankly I’m surprised there’s been no talk about all the press SDSU is getting today. The more I watch the more disgruntled I get. The Coaching Staff...from the bottom of the pile all the way up to the head coach (including our AD Director) need to take a page from SDSU playbook. I’m embarrassed that the “State” football team is SDSU. I can’t hardly stand it anymore...you walk into stores, bars, restaurants (outside of Vermillion) and see all blue. I don’t know who is in charge of recruiting in SD but step it up. We’ve got enough kids from Florida already. Obviously the teams up north are getting it done with in-state kids. If you want money...go to Florida and ask them. I don’t spend much but my dollars can be spent elsewhere...and I know I’m not the only one feeling this way! The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. What we’re doing isn’t working and I’m over it!

Alright, now that the Yotes have crapped out to a 34-7 deficit at halftime against SIU let's discuss further. If you are a SD high schooler watching football today why would they ever rather come down here instead of going up north? Do you want to pick up the leftover SD kids who would otherwise not be going D1 just for the sake of getting more in-state representation? Because anyone in state with a shot at playing elsewhere at this level isn't coming here.

[BigDaddySodak]

Oct 26, 2019 16:54:15 GMT -6 Yotes said:

Oct 26, 2019 9:03:57 GMT -6 saturdayskills said:

Quite frankly I’m surprised there’s been no talk about all the press SDSU is getting today. The more I watch the more disgruntled I get. The Coaching Staff...from the bottom of the pile all the way up to the head coach (including our AD Director) need to take a page from SDSU playbook. I’m embarrassed that the “State” football team is SDSU. I can’t hardly stand it anymore...you walk into stores, bars, restaurants (outside of Vermillion) and see all blue. I don’t know who is in charge of recruiting in SD but step it up. We’ve got enough kids from Florida already. Obviously the teams up north are getting it done with in-state kids. If you want money...go to Florida and ask them. I don’t spend much but my dollars can be spent elsewhere...and I know I’m not the only one feeling this way! The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. What we’re doing isn’t working and I’m over it!

Alright, now that the Yotes have crapped out to a 34-7 deficit at halftime against SIU let's discuss further. If you are a SD high schooler watching football today why would they ever rather come down here instead of going up north? Do you want to pick up the leftover SD kids who would otherwise not be going D1 just for the sake of getting more in-state representation? Because anyone in state with a shot at playing elsewhere at this level isn't coming here.

Thanks for providing the information and proving Saturdayskills point! Look at the home state kids from each school listed and you can see why other schools are finding success and build depth. SDSU has 29 SD kids, NDSU has 17 ND kids, UND has 16 ND kids and USD has 6 kids from it’s own State, 6! I agree not all local kids are superstars but thats almost criminal with how USD has recruited locally. Since FightSD mentioned football is so MUCH better everywhere else aren’t we getting the leftovers from all the other States? Is the point being they couldn’t find a place to play down in Florida so they came to USD? FightSD wants to win at all cost and bring players in when there are kids regionally that can get the job done as well. Refer back to the roster and national rankings from SDSU and NDSU if you need. I get that speed is easier to find in Florida but I’d rather take a kid with good character like Gibbs and give him the opportunity to shine instead of supporting thug style actions that get a kid kicked out of games plus cost the team penalties each game. I know most the kids from Florida and they are great but I don’t care where you’re from, act out and consequences should follow (unless your Stig). Shoot, the coaches even brought in a transfer RB this year that had been through 2 other schools prior to USD. Nielson had multiple negative situations with this RB and finally had to kick him off the team after the Northern Colorado game. I don’t blame Gibbs one bit for leaving early if Nielson thinks that little of him that he couldn’t play in place of that debacle. It was also stated, “kids that have a shot at playing are going elsewhere”, so isn’t that your first sign your coaching staff has failed or are failing. I have been to practices, I have talked with players and I know the coaches that couldn’t lead a horse to water let alone understand how to coach up a young player. I want to believe Nielson knows what he’s doing but I can’t get over that he just got lucky having Streveler show up at the right place and right time!
So discussing this further, the point that Saturdayskills eluded to is the support and financial advantage to supporting your local or even regional base is critical for future success. It’s no fluke that SDSU and NDSU are top programs on and off the field due to local support. The idea that College Game Day was in Brookings only because NDSU was coming to town is naive and idiotic. I’m sure SDSU is hurt because they lost today but it was still a great day for the Jackrabbits. They have created a winning culture and this “hay day” for SDSU today will pay dividends for years ahead.
I’ve sat back for the most part of the last 7 years following all of you on here and sorry to say it but USD is not at the level most of you think it is. Streveler blessed us with 2 great seasons but it left us slightly delusional on the progress we have made since Nielson was hired on. Even if we were to beat both NDSU and SDSU this year, we have a long way to go to be considered a successful program. Hopefully someday the program will turn for the better but it’s hard to find that winning culture from the current coaches in the tone of the players and USD supporters.
All done.

[fightsd]

Oct 27, 2019 0:29:45 GMT -6 BigDaddySodak said:

Oct 26, 2019 16:54:15 GMT -6 Yotes said:

Alright, now that the Yotes have crapped out to a 34-7 deficit at halftime against SIU let's discuss further. If you are a SD high schooler watching football today why would they ever rather come down here instead of going up north? Do you want to pick up the leftover SD kids who would otherwise not be going D1 just for the sake of getting more in-state representation? Because anyone in state with a shot at playing elsewhere at this level isn't coming here.

Thanks for providing the information and proving Saturdayskills point! Look at the home state kids from each school listed and you can see why other schools are finding success and build depth. SDSU has 29 SD kids, NDSU has 17 ND kids, UND has 16 ND kids and USD has 6 kids from it’s own State, 6! I agree not all local kids are superstars but thats almost criminal with how USD has recruited locally. Since FightSD mentioned football is so MUCH better everywhere else aren’t we getting the leftovers from all the other States? Is the point being they couldn’t find a place to play down in Florida so they came to USD? FightSD wants to win at all cost and bring players in when there are kids regionally that can get the job done as well. Refer back to the roster and national rankings from SDSU and NDSU if you need. I get that speed is easier to find in Florida but I’d rather take a kid with good character like Gibbs and give him the opportunity to shine instead of supporting thug style actions that get a kid kicked out of games plus cost the team penalties each game. I know most the kids from Florida and they are great but I don’t care where you’re from, act out and consequences should follow (unless your Stig). Shoot, the coaches even brought in a transfer RB this year that had been through 2 other schools prior to USD. Nielson had multiple negative situations with this RB and finally had to kick him off the team after the Northern Colorado game. I don’t blame Gibbs one bit for leaving early if Nielson thinks that little of him that he couldn’t play in place of that debacle. It was also stated, “kids that have a shot at playing are going elsewhere”, so isn’t that your first sign your coaching staff has failed or are failing. I have been to practices, I have talked with players and I know the coaches that couldn’t lead a horse to water let alone understand how to coach up a young player. I want to believe Nielson knows what he’s doing but I can’t get over that he just got lucky having Streveler show up at the right place and right time!
So discussing this further, the point that Saturdayskills eluded to is the support and financial advantage to supporting your local or even regional base is critical for future success. It’s no fluke that SDSU and NDSU are top programs on and off the field due to local support. The idea that College Game Day was in Brookings only because NDSU was coming to town is naive and idiotic. I’m sure SDSU is hurt because they lost today but it was still a great day for the Jackrabbits. They have created a winning culture and this “hay day” for SDSU today will pay dividends for years ahead.
I’ve sat back for the most part of the last 7 years following all of you on here and sorry to say it but USD is not at the level most of you think it is. Streveler blessed us with 2 great seasons but it left us slightly delusional on the progress we have made since Nielson was hired on. Even if we were to beat both NDSU and SDSU this year, we have a long way to go to be considered a successful program. Hopefully someday the program will turn for the better but it’s hard to find that winning culture from the current coaches in the tone of the players and USD supporters.
All done.

Kai Henry is better than Gibbs. We can put that point to bed right now.

[Yote 53]

I really don't see the problem with the roster composition. Look at a map and see where Vermillion is located, right on the Iowa border. Not shocking that a majority of our roster is kids from Iowa. Oh, and Iowa HS football is far better than SD HS football. So it is reasonable that we would recruit a deeper football pool that is right next to Vermillion.

Tired of all the bitching about no SD players when the roster reflects the general student body population. USD has always been full of Iowa and Nebraska students due to the school's location. We're recruiting our natural area. I'm beginning to wonder if any of you even went to school here. If you did you would know where our students come from.

I see a majority of UND and NDSU players come from Minnesota. I don't see their fan bases complaining about that.

[Yotes]

Oct 27, 2019 8:25:53 GMT -6 Yote 53 said:

I really don't see the problem with the roster composition. Look at a map and see where Vermillion is located, right on the Iowa border. Not shocking that a majority of our roster is kids from Iowa. Oh, and Iowa HS football is far better than SD HS football. So it is reasonable that we would recruit a deeper football pool that is right next to Vermillion.

Tired of all the bitching about no SD players when the roster reflects the general student body population. USD has always been full of Iowa and Nebraska students due to the school's location. We're recruiting our natural area. I'm beginning to wonder if any of you even went to school here. If you did you would know where our students come from.

I see a majority of UND and NDSU players come from Minnesota. I don't see their fan bases complaining about that.

The Fall 2019 numbers from SDBOR state that we have 4,718 on-campus undergraduate students. 2,720 of those students are SD residents. I can't breakdown where the other 41% of students come from, but from my time working in admissions I'd guess that like 25-30% of the student body comes from MN, IA, and NE with Nebraska supplying much fewer students than MN and IA.

I'm not arguing one way or the other about needing in-state kids. In fact, most of the elite talent to come through any Dakota school in the last 10 years have been from out-of-state. Our football roster does not reflect the student body makeup though.

[Yotes]

I will say though that keeping kids local must not be a priority at all for this staff. I don't think Bob has brought in one impact player from SD yet. The Headlee brothers are the only two SD kids on the depth chart. We were never saturated with local impact players with Joe, but still players like Nick Jensen, John Wessel, and Drew Iddings come to mind. I know there were more that played quality time but those are the big names in my memory.

For me it's nothing but a neat side note when a kid is from SD. I don't care where you are from, just win baby. No one seems to care about geography when it comes to our men's basketball team. AJ Plitzuweit is the first SD kid on the team since Jordan Boots graduated in 2013, and we've only got him because his mom coaches here (weird coincidence that the last SD kid was in the same boat).

[sportschic]

Where the kids are from on the roster has no bearing on what’s going on with this team! There is no fire on this team! We are playing soft! I was at the game yesterday, we are at home and the entire team looked flat before kick off! I do think it’s the scheme, we aren’t fooling any of these teams! They are picking us apart!
These players look defeated before they even step on the field. There is something very wrong with that!
I know Nielsen can coach, he is proven. Don’t forget he has had to replace great coaches that were his crew due to career progression. There are only 2 coaches left from his crew.
You can’t decide a scheme and fit players into the scheme. You take your players and their strengths and you devise a scheme to put them in the best position to make plays.
Your best defenses play cover 2 and play it to perfection. Offenses don’t need to be tricked. There have been many of Super Bowls won with defenses playin g cover 2 the majority of their time. They used a DB as a nickel back instead of a linebacker. Linebackers at this level can’t cover WR and slot receivers. We have a mismatch there all the time.
I’m afraid if changes aren’t made we are going to see more of what we saw yesterday☹️

[bobo]

Who cares where the athletic talent comes from? At the end of the day, everyone will jump on the bandwagon if we are winning and not give a crap where the best players are coming from!! Yes, we need more local kids, but maybe those local kids don’t want to walk-on and end up taking other opportunities at lower level schools or get spread out amongst SDSU, USD and NDSU. Who knows. SD high school football is a much lower quality than Iowa, Minnesota, and Nebraska. AND way lower level than Florida. With limited D1 type high school athletes available you’d be grasping at straws. Recruiting and offering those kids would be more for the fan base not for production. Now if you’re getting the top SD kids that’s a different story. I would concentrate more on MN kids from Minneapolis-St Paul cuz that’s where the FCS talent lies in this region. Just look at the NDSU roster.

[fightsd]

Oct 27, 2019 11:38:29 GMT -6 bobo said:

Who cares where the athletic talent comes from? At the end of the day, everyone will jump on the bandwagon if we are winning and not give a crap where the best players are coming from!! Yes, we need more local kids, but maybe those local kids don’t want to walk-on and end up taking other opportunities at lower level schools or get spread out amongst SDSU, USD and NDSU. Who knows. SD high school football is a much lower quality than Iowa, Minnesota, and Nebraska. AND way lower level than Florida. With limited D1 type high school athletes available you’d be grasping at straws. Recruiting and offering those kids would be more for the fan base not for production. Now if you’re getting the top SD kids that’s a different story. I would concentrate more on MN kids from Minneapolis-St Paul cuz that’s where the FCS talent lies in this region. Just look at the NDSU roster.

Exactly.

I hate to be negative towards high school football in SD, but the level of play is way way below that of MN, IA, NE, IL, WI, etc. Florida, Texas, and California are on a whole different level.