UT Martin - 12/14 5:30 PM

[sdyotefan]

I was always curious, so just googled it (so it has to be true) and ACL injuries are 3 times more likely for women. The prime reasons are women's knees have less muscle mass and more flexibility than a man's.
I am surprised it is 3X more!

[golfingyote]

Dec 15, 2022 7:59:31 GMT -6 88grad said:

Having “the big 3” for an extra season was the best thing for this team and the worst thing for this team. The 3 ate up so much playing time that very few of our current roster got much PT. Now the lack of experience is glaring.

Going against those 3 in practice and seeing their work habits should outweigh any negative to playing time. most of our returners oustside of Grace were playing specific roles around them anyway- catch and shoot, play defense, rebound, etc- so this year would have been a sharp learning curve regardless having to playmake and play a lot harder and faster without the players we lost last year.

This team will inevitably get better but are also very limited with the current personnel on both ends. we lack size and athleticism-2 things you can't necessarily learn or teach so that will always impact the way we play. I agree this year will hopefully at least serve as a spring board for Demers, Carson, Duffney and the sophomores to build out some experience and roles for the future.

[sdyotefan]

As Sun Zhu, ancient Chinese military strategist, said "a pile of building materials is no more a house than an untrained group is an army".

We're still in the early construction phase of working most effectively together!

[kiyoat]

postgame:

[kiyoat]

Dec 14, 2022 23:25:30 GMT -6 fanatic said:

The players that were here the last couple years learned and played good defense. Where did that Go? Defense has been great the last 10 years. Not any more.

I guess I'm a little perplexed about this, as well.  There are two competing narratives here:

1. The "This team just isn't good" narrative.  aka "this coach just isn't good".

or

2. The "This team (and/or coach) is very talented, but just needs to gain experience/ cohesiveness with a brand new staff and new roles" narrative.

I'm sure most fans believe something in the middle of these two extremes, but right now it's hard to understand how far we have fallen so fast.  So we are grasping at straws.  I mean, some of these "inexperienced" players are seniors and juniors, for gosh sake.  It's not like they haven't been exposed to, and been a part of, greatness.  The culture part should be there at minimum.

I can understand the "lack of athleticism" argument, but not the "lack of size".  Sure, we were spoiled with Hannah's superior size and athleticism in the post, but we still have a decent size advantage at guard positions vs the rest of the league.  Maybe that's a part of the puzzle.  We have good size at guard, but not the quickness/ speed we need there.  We are undersized in the post, other than a very green freshman.  So we are too "hybrid" at the moment?  Basically a team full of small forwards and "stretch fours"? 

That's the argument I had made why SDSU was struggling against us after Macy and Maddie graduated, or when Selland was injured.  I thought that Brooklyn M was looking like the missing piece to their puzzle last year; a quick, smart point guard that made everyone around her better, and allowed them to shine.  Maybe we need some of that medicine now.  Bergstrom might have been that.

At times we look like a team with huge perimeter scoring potential.  Maybe we will get back to that.

[yote18]

They’ve shown signs, but this team does not work together. Each player on the floor is trying to play the game their way. That’s one of the main reasons we’re sliding backwards.

As a few others have said we just gotta keep supporting the team, which is absolutely true. But let’s not sugar coat things, this is bad. We’ve worked too hard as a program and came to far to have a year start like this.

[kiyoat]

Do you guys remember Dawn's first season?  2016-17.  Her systems, both offense and defense, were not fully installed.  So we were a little one-dimensional.  I remember a post-game interview with the Jacks where Clarissa Ober said something that really pissed me off with arrogant bluntness, but at the end of the day she wasn't wrong.  (paraphrased) "It wasn't that hard.  If you can shut down Arens (Allison), then you've shut down their whole offense"...  or something to that effect.

Although we weren't "fully formed" as a team, I think right now we wouldn't mind a similar performance to what that team accomplished, vs. what we are seeing now.

Right now, we have our 2017 Allison Arens (Larkins), and I'd say in some ways we have a Bridget Arens (tough blue-collar forward/post) in Ugofsky.  We have several options for a Jaycee Bradley (consistent outside scoring threat), but we are missing two things that team had:  size in the paint (Abby Fogg) and a player that pulled everyone together, and directed things (Duffy).  MacKeever, Frederick, Liveringhouse and Trimboli were also on that team too, but I'd say they emerged later.

So, I think we need Mazurek back for that experienced inside presence (let's stop bagging on her for defense, she's just fine there), and we will be better there as Demers shakes off some freshman moments.

As far as Grace goes, I think she needs to be the 2, not the 1.  She is our most athletic player, and a scoring threat we need "off-ball". 

That means we need a full-time point guard to stabilize our offense.  Right now, I'm not sure who that needs to be.  But whoever it is should probably have a very good Assist-TO rate.  Someone that values the ball.  I really don't care if they are a scoring threat.  Would be nice if they were, but if we can just cut down on stupid turnovers that would be huge.

I also think we need to zero in on a couple of our best shooters to give those minutes to at the 3 alongside Grace at the 2.  Would be great if they also were good defenders, but... Jaycee wasn't a great defender, but she hit a ton of 3s for us that year.

The four-spot could be any number of players, like Hempe, Hansen, Duffney, Ugofsky.  I'd say Jeniah should be the starter there, though.

So generally I'm saying we need to zero in on our starting 5 or 6 in order to stabilize roles and improve the cohesion.  I'm sure that will happen, but it's a process.

[Men's League Waterboy]

I think there's absolutely a real need for a true point guard on this team, or at least a player who is looking to really move the ball from wherever their "natural" spot on the floor is.

I thought Avila-Ambrosi showed decent progression in yesterday's game. She was obviously playing with very little confidence in the first half but she came around a bit in the second and I thought the way she moved the ball against the trap was exactly what was needed. I thought Hempe made a nice pass or two as well. There just isn't much in the way of easy buckets outside of when Larkins makes a drive for herself and when your confidence is a little shaken the worst thing in the world is struggling to find an easy look. Offensively they don't have much in the way of an identity yet and everybody's trying to make a play ... but most of the time that play is a tunnel-vision play for themselves without really taking into account where an easier look might be.

This team isn't going to overmatch anybody physically at many positions. Larkins is the only player it appears to me that ever "surprises" her defender with suddenness of movement and Demers is the only one who appears to be so strong that she can overpower a D-I defender, so then you have to be anticipatory and play smarter to gain that quarter-step you need offensively and defensively. Can they do it? We'll see how it goes.

[Men's League Waterboy]

Dec 15, 2022 10:52:29 GMT -6 kiyoat said:

Do you guys remember Dawn's first season?  2016-17.  Her systems, both offense and defense, were not fully installed.  So we were a little one-dimensional.  I remember a post-game interview with the Jacks where Clarissa Ober said something that really pissed me off with arrogant bluntness, but at the end of the day she wasn't wrong.  (paraphrased) "It wasn't that hard.  If you can shut down Arens (Allison), then you've shut down their whole offense"...  or something to that effect.

Although we weren't "fully formed" as a team, I think right now we wouldn't mind a similar performance to what that team accomplished, vs. what we are seeing now.

Right now, we have our 2017 Allison Arens (Larkins), and I'd say in some ways we have a Bridget Arens (tough blue-collar forward/post) in Ugofsky.  We have several options for a Jaycee Bradley (consistent outside scoring threat), but we are missing two things that team had:  size in the paint (Abby Fogg) and a player that pulled everyone together, and directed things (Duffy).  MacKeever, Frederick, Liveringhouse and Trimboli were also on that team too, but I'd say they emerged later.

So, I think we need Mazurek back for that experienced inside presence (let's stop bagging on her for defense, she's just fine there), and we will be better there as Demers shakes off some freshman moments.

As far as Grace goes, I think she needs to be the 2, not the 1.  She is our most athletic player, and a scoring threat we need "off-ball". 

That means we need a full-time point guard to stabilize our offense.  Right now, I'm not sure who that needs to be.  But whoever it is should probably have a very good Assist-TO rate.  Someone that values the ball.  I really don't care if they are a scoring threat.  Would be nice if they were, but if we can just cut down on stupid turnovers that would be huge.

I also think we need to zero in on a couple of our best shooters to give those minutes to at the 3 alongside Grace at the 2.  Would be great if they also were good defenders, but... Jaycee wasn't a great defender, but she hit a ton of 3s for us that year.

The four-spot could be any number of players, like Hempe, Hansen, Duffney, Ugofsky.  I'd say Jeniah should be the starter there, though.

So generally I'm saying we need to zero in on our starting 5 or 6 in order to stabilize roles and improve the cohesion.  I'm sure that will happen, but it's a process.

I think there's a lot to this comp. 

I think there are great parallels between Arens and Larkins to be honest. 

I'm just not really sure that the 2022 team is anywhere near as talented on a one-to-one comp after that. Unfortunately. 

[kiyoat]

Dec 15, 2022 11:10:22 GMT -6 Men's League Waterboy said:

Dec 15, 2022 10:52:29 GMT -6 kiyoat said:

I think there's a lot to this comp. 

I think there are great parallels between Arens and Larkins to be honest. 

I'm just not really sure that the 2022 team is anywhere near as talented on a one-to-one comp after that. Unfortunately. 

Yeah, that's fair.  Fogg is still playing professionally in Europe.  Duffy would probably still be playing professionally if she chose that path.  Allison and Jaycee were all-conference type players, like Grace.  Lots of talent, but new systems and new coaches took some time to jell.

[Men's League Waterboy]

I think that's a wonderful reminder. As great a coach as Plitzuweit was and is, it took her an entire season with a first-round Summit tourney exit and A LOT of talent just to get things settled in and figured out as to exactly what she had and how she had to have her personnel play.

[elcoyote]

The talent level Karius inherited doesn't even come close to the talent of Plitzuweit's first season. Also, Berglund is/was the point guard this team so desperately needs.

[Men's League Waterboy]

I'm going to take your word on Bergstrom because I have no idea.

Also, in another parallel Plitzuweit lost two starting (even all-conference level) guards to injury her first season as well, which was why Arens went from playing hardly at all as a frosh to averaging 17 per game as a sophomore.

I think the one thing fans have to do is to give Karius a lot of the benefit of the doubt at this point.

She's in as no-win a situation really as a coach can be in. As many others have pointed out, this is a brutal spot for any head coach, much less a young one in her first year. Give her time. Let her grow with her team.

[yotenation]

Watching that post-game presser, the frustration with losing is pretty apparent. Especially from Ugofsky. It's a good reminder that as disappointed as we may feel as fans for how the season has gone so far, the disappointment and frustration of the players is undoubtedly. They are the ones working and practicing every day and not seeing their work translate into the results they want.

There are some clear limitations on this roster in terms of size, athleticism, etc., but I remain hopeful that we will see them grow and see develop into a more consistent group as the season goes on. Rebuild years can be hard but that's what we have here. We have to hope that the lumps they are taking will make them better down the road and that young players like Carson, Duffney, Hanson, Demers, and Larkins will benefit from the experience.

[yotenation]

Dec 15, 2022 13:57:48 GMT -6 @bballfreak said:

It has been, let's say "interesting" to read all the negative posts the past three weeks. Did all of you honestly think this team was a Sweet 16, or even Summit League contender this year??? Come on all, there has just been too much lost here. I mean talk about adversity to overcome. Do you think they want to be losing these games??? It has to be frustrating for them:(. For God's sake, look what has been lost; three super seniors (23-24 years of age, five college seasons each), a well oiled coaching staff, the two remaining very experienced starters and injury riddled bench replacements last year, starters this year...especially Peplowski. I have been a coach for several years and been involved with initiating contact between young players and coaches, from NAIA all the way up to D1. Let me tell you what I see and hopefully I don't offend anyone.

When the coaches moved on, the team then lost the remaining starters to the portal, that was huge! The incoming coaching staff did not trade apples for apples, the recruits they took in from the portal were not of that caliber...period! Coach P had a tendency to play a "short" bench, that does not allow for experience building further down. Maturity and experience help greatly, those players drag the younger inexperienced ones up. I also know that coach P ran a very detailed meticulous practice, is the new coaching staff there yet? I'm not seeing the player to player, coach to player chemistry yet.

It's evident they are working hard, I thought they showed signs of fatigue on Sunday. I'm sure the practices have been intense. They don't seem to be instep with one another for whatever reason. They need to trust each other, they all have a different skillset which works better as a team...NOT individually. I would like to see the starting line change up some, I don't think the right mixture of skill, maturity and experience is playing at the same time.

At this point I'm not thinking about where they will end the season in the Summit League, only that they are going to get better and better with each game. For now, it's one game at a time. We give them our full support while they grind out this season and improve. These kids want to win games! Go Yotes!!!

A pretty solid take. I agree that anyone who thought this team would not miss a beat was fooling themselves. This season has been a tough grind made tougher by injuries. I had hoped to see more progress by now, but sometimes it takes longer than we would like. No doubt the players feel that way too.

What would you like to see in terms of shaking up the lineup? Ideally it would be nice to see Demers and Ugofsky on the floor together some, but that's tough right now as they are the only post players that contribute. Maybe getting Mazurek back will help there.