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Post by Coyote Fan on Nov 20, 2011 21:40:31 GMT -6
Yoteforever,
Just some questions
1) Do you see the football program going forward, going backward or pretty much stagant at this point?
2) What are your presonal expectations for the football program?
3) What are the measuring sticks that the programs should be measured against?
4) What has Ed done from past history makes you think The Coyotes will win the MVFC?
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Post by jman1985 on Nov 20, 2011 22:02:39 GMT -6
I would agree, the recruiting classes have been strong. But there again, I keep going back to the "yeah, but" thing. Great players, but they haven't gotten it done in big games.
Ultimately, the coach is responsible. That's just the way it is.
And with the whole he'll-sit-down-and-have-a-beer thing, Ed said it himself in his post-game comments (go read the press release) that the only that matters is wins and losses. Nobody cares that the players played hard, or that they had huge leads, or that they were in games. That doesn't matter, I'm sorry. This is Division I football, it's big boy pants time, it's about winning.
I do not envy David Sayler right now. He's got a tough decision to make. No doubt he has a pulse of Coyote nation. He has to ask himself, "Am I satisfied with a 6-5 season? Am I satisfied with a lack of real progression by this program?"
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Post by coyote70 on Nov 20, 2011 22:12:21 GMT -6
Yoteforever - thanks for your comments. Couldn't have said them better.
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Post by #1CoyoteFan (Admin) on Nov 21, 2011 0:36:56 GMT -6
I would agree, the recruiting classes have been strong. But there again, I keep going back to the "yeah, but" thing. Great players, but they haven't gotten it done in big games. Ultimately, the coach is responsible. That's just the way it is. And with the whole he'll-sit-down-and-have-a-beer thing, Ed said it himself in his post-game comments (go read the press release) that the only that matters is wins and losses. Nobody cares that the players played hard, or that they had huge leads, or that they were in games. That doesn't matter, I'm sorry. This is Division I football, it's big boy pants time, it's about winning. I do not envy David Sayler right now. He's got a tough decision to make. No doubt he has a pulse of Coyote nation. He has to ask himself, "Am I satisfied with a 6-5 season? Am I satisfied with a lack of real progression by this program?" Completely agree. That's great that Ed gets great recruiting classes, but then shouldn't the recruiting classes be better than mediocre records? Does that mean the talent is getting worse or are they not coached to their level of "greatness." Awesome that Ed has beers with people. I mean, if this were the old Bud Bowl commercials, Ed would be the champ. Guess what, it's great that he can have a beer and talk football, but in the end, that is not what is winning or losing football games. Larry Eustachy was great at having beers with people, too. How did that go for him? I am guessing whoever they bring in can BS with the old farts and tell stories about the Golden Days when the Coyotes did not win conference championships then either. Maybe it should be about winning games in the fourth quarter and holding onto leads. This is going back to the D-II days. Not about having beers and being fun to talk to. I am sure Nick Saban isn't a fun guy to have beers with, so I wonder how Alabama wins all of those games ... |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2011 7:09:10 GMT -6
yoteforever's counsel is wise. Meierkort has done a well-above-average job of recruiting and that's a huge part of the puzzle. I agree with JackJD, since he does have his law training at USD, and yoteforever seems to have a great deal of rationality in his outlook. I do disagree about the one year contracts, and here is why. Neither SDSU or USD are in a position to come up with a buyout of the remaining contract should the AD and President want to make a coaching change. Craig Bohl has about a 5 year contract, and if they have another Best Buy fiasco or something similar and the record drops to 3-8 again and stays there, and they decide to axe Bohl, NDSU will have come up with funds to buy the remainder of that multiyear contract and give him severence pay besides. This could be costly. Another draw back is that the policy of mulit year contracts would have to apply to all faculty as well as coaches. I just dont see the BOR giving special status to coaches. They just dont think that way. I know each school could budget for buyouts, but then you have to give up something else. My point is that right now the 1 year contracts work best given where each program is in the D1 transisiton. |
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Post by yoteforever on Nov 21, 2011 8:03:29 GMT -6
I would agree, the recruiting classes have been strong. But there again, I keep going back to the "yeah, but" thing. Great players, but they haven't gotten it done in big games. Ultimately, the coach is responsible. That's just the way it is. And with the whole he'll-sit-down-and-have-a-beer thing, Ed said it himself in his post-game comments (go read the press release) that the only that matters is wins and losses. Nobody cares that the players played hard, or that they had huge leads, or that they were in games. That doesn't matter, I'm sorry. This is Division I football, it's big boy pants time, it's about winning. I do not envy David Sayler right now. He's got a tough decision to make. No doubt he has a pulse of Coyote nation. He has to ask himself, "Am I satisfied with a 6-5 season? Am I satisfied with a lack of real progression by this program?" Completely agree. That's great that Ed gets great recruiting classes, but then shouldn't the recruiting classes be better than mediocre records? Does that mean the talent is getting worse or are they not coached to their level of "greatness." Awesome that Ed has beers with people. I mean, if this were the old Bud Bowl commercials, Ed would be the champ. Guess what, it's great that he can have a beer and talk football, but in the end, that is not what is winning or losing football games. Larry Eustachy was great at having beers with people, too. How did that go for him? I am guessing whoever they bring in can BS with the old farts and tell stories about the Golden Days when the Coyotes did not win conference championships then either. Maybe it should be about winning games in the fourth quarter and holding onto leads. This is going back to the D-II days. Not about having beers and being fun to talk to. I am sure Nick Saban isn't a fun guy to have beers with, so I wonder how Alabama wins all of those games ... Pretty strong worded rebuttal CF#1, but I'll address it. First of all, the head coach is ultimately responsible for the wins and losses. No argument there. If youy look at my lengthy analogy of what I would do if AD, I said the the "heart to heart" conversation with Coach Meierkort would ask him to commit to some changes if deemed necessary. That could be a number of things. It might mean you resign. It might mean the changing of cooridnators. It could mean a number of things, and only the head coach and AD would know what it would take coming from that meeting. I think you used pretty insulting words when you referred to the "old farts" and Ed sitting down and having a beer with them. Since you do know who I am, I have to assume that I am being lumped into that category, and it certainly had a derogatory tone to it. But in the real world my friend, it is hugely important at a school like USD that in order to raise funds there has to be a fair amount of "connectivity" to the alums and booster base. For you not to think that is naive. Prior to Ed, and after Dave Triplett, please give me an example of a coach that had a relationship with the fan base and had winning records? Coach Austin is a personal friend of mine that burnt those bridges and was one of the factors that lead to his demise. CF#1, don't underestimate how important fund raising is in this situation. The reference to Larry Eustachey is absurd, and you know it. Larry Eustachey was a closet drunk that partied with college students, not friends and boosters of Iowa State. It was pathetic behavior unbecoming of a college coach. That isn't anywhere close to the situation Ed is in. Lastly your reference to the old days of losing is spot on and dead wrong at the same time. I did play CF#!, and our team won the NCC. prior to that you had to go back to 1951. Then 1978, then one time in the Triplett era...guessing around 1986. So my question back to you is this? What in our storeid history indicates a pattern of winning and championships? There isn't one. That's the sad truth. As fans, we all want to do that, but history isn't on our side. I do believe this Jeremy. Ed has brought in more talent than any coach I know here. Have they developed? Not to their potential. Is that Eds fault? Yes, I guess it is in the sense he is responsible. But if there is blame, I do think he has way to young of assistants and coordinators. They are a good group of young men thrust into a role they aren't ready for. And since you like to compare to Iowa State coaches, I would say Ed is alot like Dan McCarney. He is loyal to a fault. This is the change I think has been needed and should be made. he needs a "gray beard" or two on staff and keep the others as position coaches. In closing, Ed has done alot of great things for USD football. You don't want to hear it, but he is almost unbeatable at home. If that trend remains, we are at minimum .500 in the MVC. He put USD football on national spotlight with an unbelievable win at Minnesota. That gave us notiriety. He has had some amazing talent ( Noah, Powell, Logan, etc. ). I just think with all my heart two things are needed. A more mature and experienced coordinator, and some more discipline. He makes those changes and I think you are off and running. Everybody thinks hiring a new coach is always the answer. If you are 2-9, or 1-10 I agree. But coming off transition and going 6-5 ( I know we had some guppies but also had AF and Wisco) isn't all bad. Go ahead and jump on teh Dump Ed bandwagin and see how much you gain, and how much you lose. Coyotefan I have a meeting this morning but I will adress your 4 questions as well. CF#1, I am addressing yours because I expected as moderator a little bit more from you. |
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Post by Coyote Fan on Nov 21, 2011 8:36:36 GMT -6
I would agree, the recruiting classes have been strong. But there again, I keep going back to the "yeah, but" thing. Great players, but they haven't gotten it done in big games. Ultimately, the coach is responsible. That's just the way it is. And with the whole he'll-sit-down-and-have-a-beer thing, Ed said it himself in his post-game comments (go read the press release) that the only that matters is wins and losses. Nobody cares that the players played hard, or that they had huge leads, or that they were in games. That doesn't matter, I'm sorry. This is Division I football, it's big boy pants time, it's about winning. I do not envy David Sayler right now. He's got a tough decision to make. No doubt he has a pulse of Coyote nation. He has to ask himself, "Am I satisfied with a 6-5 season? Am I satisfied with a lack of real progression by this program?" Completely agree. That's great that Ed gets great recruiting classes, but then shouldn't the recruiting classes be better than mediocre records? Does that mean the talent is getting worse or are they not coached to their level of "greatness." Awesome that Ed has beers with people. I mean, if this were the old Bud Bowl commercials, Ed would be the champ. Guess what, it's great that he can have a beer and talk football, but in the end, that is not what is winning or losing football games. Larry Eustachy was great at having beers with people, too. How did that go for him? I am guessing whoever they bring in can BS with the old farts and tell stories about the Golden Days when the Coyotes did not win conference championships then either. Maybe it should be about winning games in the fourth quarter and holding onto leads. This is going back to the D-II days. Not about having beers and being fun to talk to. I am sure Nick Saban isn't a fun guy to have beers with, so I wonder how Alabama wins all of those games ... Your Nick Saban thing has more relevance than many people would think. People in Alabama could care less about the coaches personality as long as they are winning on the field. To me he is a one of the biggest a-holes in the profession, but that is also one of the reasons Alabama is winning. I am not saying a coach needs to be a jerk, but what I am saying is that the coaches personality shouldn't matter, what should is on field performance. What Coyote fans need to decide for themselves are priorities. Ed does alot of good things but the bottom line is that he doesn't win road games and that is always going to hold this program back. The thing with Ed is that he does not learn from past history well. I have seen the same mistakes be made over and over again with little to no corrections made. Ed does well when he has a talent advantage but when things are relatively equal (even if the Yotes have a slight talent advantage) we are almost never able to outcoach another team. Another thing to consider is when forcasting the future is that Ed's teams generally don't do well with tough schedules like they are going to be seeing every year in the MVFC. USD has had the advantage of being able to take weeks off against inferior opponents that they won't be able to do starting next year. What is scarely is that the Yotes have actually played quite well on the last two road games but the coaching was not able to come through. Often times the Yotes don't even show up emotionally to these games. Another thing is this program seems to get way too satisfied after one big win and instead of improving on a good thing they allow themselves to slip going forward and it ends up generally causing the entire season to go downhill thereafter. The Yotes have had many instances in this season and past seasons where they have really nice wins at home. Wins where almost everyone thinks the team has finally turned the corner and will be able to take off and have a great season. That is where the satisfaction takes over and things are allowed to slip instead of really building on a good thing. |
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Post by Coyote Fan on Nov 21, 2011 8:55:33 GMT -6
As fans at USD we need to have confidence in our administration that they will do the right thing. We need to have confidence that if we do go in a new direction that we will find a great coach to come in that is hired as a D1 FCS MVFC coach. I trust Sayler that he and a search committee would do a good job with a new hire. They have done so in the past. We can't settle for mediocracy now with the fear that we can't get better in the future. I believe it was a search committee that hired Sayler so I am confident that due diligence would be done this time. Our past should not hold us back in where we need to be in the future. We cannot say that since we had many bad years in the past that we should carry a lack of confidence that the future doesn't hold much better avenues of success.
There is no way that any reasonable fan of any D1 FCS program would be acceptable with being 2-15 in FCS road games regardless of the home record. That is something that is compiled for a reason not just by chance or bad luck. I don't care what Ed does off the field because if this team doesn't move forward with on field success eventually we will lose some of our fanbase. How many of those fans up in Grand Forks on Saturday will make a different decision next time when faced with the "should I go to the game or stay home" question. If Ed walked on water and was good to loyal alums that is fine and dandy but with 90% of the fan base he is not going to get an opportunity to have a beer with them. They know one thing and that is how the team does on the field, which is what a coach should always be judged on first and foremost. I personally like Ed and his personality. I always have but personality does not win football games.
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Post by jimmyjack on Nov 21, 2011 11:51:50 GMT -6
I don't have an opinion about your coach, other than the fact that he seems to put together some pretty good talent.
My question is this: What's USD's football budget? Right now, SDSU is at the bottom of the MVFC in budget and is still two coaches short of a full staff, relying on grad assistants.
I'm guessing USD is in the same boat. Doesn't that have something to do with all of this? Is it fair to harshly judge a coach who has had some success despite having one hand tied behind his back?
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drdank
Freshman Member
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Post by drdank on Nov 21, 2011 12:15:26 GMT -6
It is state policy to hand out 1 year contracts. What I wonder is if the BOR can structure a series of 1 year contracts ala NFL player contracts? I think that would expose them to only a 1 year buyout. How many coordinators has Ed had over the last 8 years? The good ones moved on as quickly as they got here. Wes is as inexperienced a coach as he is a coordinator. Breske and Sprague were just GA's a little while ago. Spencer is gone and Trip was left hanging.
To begin and end, the on field responsibility rests with the head coach. When his coordinators aren't getting the job done, he needs to take over. The base of any program is talent and money. Ed has been adept at getting both at the kitchen table and the bar. Maybe he needs to work on recruiting and keeping an experienced staff.
Wins are a result of successful execution of the plays (knowledge, technique, and speed). Moral victories come from successful execution many times against a more talented TEAM. Losses are a result of just plain dumb. It's dumb to not make this an attractive destination contractually. It's dumb not to have enough experienced position coaches. It's dumb not to have real coordinators that can soon step in as head coach. It's dumb not to adjust to changes game situations. It's dumb not to have enough strategies and preparedness in order to make the opponent adjust to you. It's dumb to toss the program in expectation of immediate positive change.
Without a solid staff of experienced teachers, the cupboard is going to be bare for the current or future head coach and coordinators.
An awful lot has to change, but let's be smart about it.
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Post by #1CoyoteFan (Admin) on Nov 21, 2011 14:28:32 GMT -6
I think you used pretty insulting words when you referred to the "old farts" and Ed sitting down and having a beer with them. Since you do know who I am, I have to assume that I am being lumped into that category, and it certainly had a derogatory tone to it. But in the real world my friend, it is hugely important at a school like USD that in order to raise funds there has to be a fair amount of "connectivity" to the alums and booster base. For you not to think that is naive. Prior to Ed, and after Dave Triplett, please give me an example of a coach that had a relationship with the fan base and had winning records? Coach Austin is a personal friend of mine that burnt those bridges and was one of the factors that lead to his demise. CF#1, don't underestimate how important fund raising is in this situation. No, yoteforever, you are not one of the old farts I am talking about. There are others that I am referring to in this one. You brought up Dan McCarney and this is exactly what this is reminding me of. Ed is a coach that came in and changed the mentality of USD football. There is no doubt there and he is a complete change from John Austin. Ed built this program, brought in better athletes and actually expected to win games. However, just like McCarney, Ed has gotten in a rut and the program is not pushing forward like it once was. I think it is stuck in neutral and could move back before it moves forward. That's what happened to McCarney. Things started moving backwards and he had no where to move forward to. People figured him out. He hasn't had a head coaching job since but has been a very valuable coordinator. Ed has been a valuable coach to the USD program. But his inability to take the blame and pass the buck to his assistants is appalling and unacceptable to me. You just do not see Division I head coaches do that. Something needs to be said about the road losses, not just oh, it will come. The coach needs to say this is unacceptable from top to bottom and that if they are not getting it done on the road, it's unacceptable. That's great that USD is unbeatable in the Dome. But in the end, that gets you a .500 record and no shot at the playoffs in the future. Ed brought a new sense of winning to this program, no doubt. But over the last three years, the team has been stuck in neutral. Fundraising is great and all, but when a team is not winning, that money can disappear just like same as a beer in a bar can. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2011 15:04:43 GMT -6
The guy hasn't even had a season after the transition. He deserves more time than that.
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Post by formeryote on Nov 21, 2011 15:29:34 GMT -6
Even though you're from State, I have to agree with you.
Realistically the turnover at the coordinator positions needs to be addressed. It’s a revolving door – A stepping stone position in some sense. What’s the average tenure of the coordinator positions the last ten years? Two seasons, maybe?
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Post by yoteforever on Nov 21, 2011 16:11:50 GMT -6
Yoteforever, Just some questions 1) Do you see the football program going forward, going backward or pretty much stagant at this point? 2) What are your presonal expectations for the football program? 3) What are the measuring sticks that the programs should be measured against? 4) What has Ed done from past history makes you think The Coyotes will win the MVFC? Coyotefan, I have been in meetings all day and am now just getting time to reply. Before answering, your questions are fair, and in the past few days your tone is at least non-combatant, so from that perspective I appreciate it. Also I did recieve your personal message and understand what you said there. Now to answer your questions in order: 1.) That's a tough one to answer. Let me say I don't think we have gone backward like so many have said. Yet we haven't advanced either. I would say we are about the same. In CF#1 rebuttal to me regarding Dan McCarney at Iowa State, the difference is that Iowa State went backward once Dan got them to a competitive playing field. USD has not, and I repeat, HAS NOT gone backward. 2.) Personal expectations? Or personal desire? There is a difference. Let me explain. My desire is like all of us in this room that loves USD. I want to win and/or compete each and every week we play on our level. That is human nature. My expectations? Here is where you all will probably butcher me, but how can any of us expect to contend in football year in and year out given our budget, 1 year contracts, and past historical football background? Where many of you are quick to find fault with Ed, let me ask you this question. When we played at home, were you at every game? If not, was it because of unforseen circumstances or you just didn't want to watch them play (say maybe a cupcake)? Because to me, if you want a dedicated program and be successful each and every year, we as a fan base need to make every concerted effort to be at the game, wearing red, and attending coaches corner in Vermillion or Sioux falls. If you were in the Dome, and be fair in your self evaluation, were you an excitable fan that made noise or did you sit on your hands expecting them to do something before you gave your nod or clap of approval? To me, if you expect the absolute best from these kids, you need to give them your absolute best. many of you probably do. But to the ones howling for Ed's job, just self analyze. 3.) Measuring sticks are wins and losses. Also, in losses, how close and why? If you think I am going to defend the two late season losses in 4th quarter, I won't. But to think those kids didn't bust their humps to win, then you haven't traveled and been around these kids. To be in those locker rooms was devastating. Next year we will be in the MVC for a full schedule. To me, and only me, I would measure our success next year this way. If we are 6-5 or better, we were hugely successful. 5-6 moderately so, and 4-7 or worse and we failed. There ya go. That's only MY measurement. 4.) We have never had a full complement of an MVC schedule and neither has Ed. Here is what leads me to think it can happen. We have knocked off Minnesota, #1 Eastern washington, and played UNI a year ago to a tight game after getting absolutely slaughtered 1 year before. That's what gives me hope. Now what scares me is what you are all pissed off about and that is the last two games we led and lost. Listen, I am not happy either, and maybe it is becoming the 1000 lb gorilla in the room, and yes it sucks to the high heaven, but those 2 games are not enough to convince me that terminating so many people is a good thing. Not only does Ed go, but Wes (who did so much for Coyote athletics) and a host of others. I'm not sure what you do for a living, but would you be still in your job if your boss evaluated you the way you are Ed? In closing, there isn't an easy answer. USD is not Alabama. USD is not UNI (yet ). We are now entering unchartered waters. I did go to the Illinois State game and I can tell you the MVC is fricking tough. I was at NDSU last year where we led into the middle of the 3rd quarter before the roof fell in. These teams are good people. And we had the talent for the most part to go toe to toe with them. I don't think the problem is Ed. I really don't. I will defend his ability till the cows come home. That being said, I think he is loyal to a fault. I think we need to bring in a couple of experienced coordinators that know what the hell they are doing, and train these younger guys. If Ed would do that, I think he is on track. |
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Post by Coyote Fan on Nov 21, 2011 16:45:13 GMT -6
yoteforever,
I respect the way you answered those questions. We just simply disagree on the ultimate road we need to take starting from this very moment.
When USD made the decision to go D1 and made the decision to peer themselves with SDSU and NDSU they took on a very big task. I think going to D1 was absolutely the right decision but part of that is that your competition level is going to go up and your expectations were naturally going to go up as well.
We have to remember that Ed was a D3 coach not too long ago. He is now just about to become not only a D1 FCS coach but one in the MVFC which top to bottom is a very good conference. I think he has made at least 3 giant leaps. One to D2 (maybe two steps considering he was going to one of the best football conferences in the nation), One to D1 FCS and One to D1 FCS in one of the tougher conferences in the nation.
I do agree that the overall budget is making things difficult but I don't think the overall budget should excuse Ed because when USD had a large budget in D2 compared to many the Yotes didn't dominate. They played very well at times but could never position themselves high enough to get a high seed in the playoffs resulting in at least 2 home games. They had the same old road issues.
When a team plays extremely well at home and can't do anything on the road that doesn't scream budgets problems as the real issue. USD has never had the opportunity to hire a D1 coach at the two biggest sports on campus. Remember when everyone thought Nielson did a great job, or at least many. Well David Sayler is head and shoulders above Nielson. USD can do better than what we have done with football recently. That is my opinion.
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