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Post by Coyote Fan on Apr 16, 2012 1:19:00 GMT -6
Good post 59 Coyote, When the shoe is on the other foot it's amazing how the opinion changes. Those that sit in the cozy dome and expect everyone to travel to Vermillion now want to complain because they have to gas up the car, spend some time in Sioux Falls (gosh that sucks compared to Vermillion and maybe get a bite to eat. I travel from Sioux Falls to Vermillion to every game worth going to (basically any D1 scholarship game). Now it's time for the Vermillionites to return the favor. I personally love outdoor football and will enjoy this game. I do enjoy the home field advantage of the dome and wish USD would have picked a different game to move to Sioux Falls but it is what it is so I don't want to hear those complain about the travel, especially to those that have to travel a reasonable distance to Vermillion every time they attend a home game. Lets remember one thing. USD was such a good dome team and a horrible road team. I look at that part of history as the USD Meierkort's not being very good on the road, not the USD Coyotes. I believe under Glenn we will see a better road team and if we have confidence in the Yotes they can beat NDSU just as easily in Sioux Falls as they can in Vermillion, Well almost. ;D Don't be selfish when it comes to promoting USD. SDSU gets way too much of the Sioux Falls share of the market and now it's time for USD to take some of it. They have been in the Summit tourney plus played baseball games in the Sioux Falls baseball stadium. The University of South Dakota is about South Dakota, not about just Vermillion and we have to remember that. Are you kidding me Coyote Fan? The shoe on the other foot? Last time I checked the University of South Dakota is in Vermillion South Dakota, not Sioux Falls South Dakota. I would like to know how many football and basketball games you went to last year? Maybe SDSU did move a baseball game to SF. Who cares! This isn't SDSU and it isn't baseball we are talking about. It is football. Like some have said, we have 5 home games, take 1 away and that leaves 4. Baseball plays many more games than football. Not even a fair comparison. Nothing kidding about my post. How many people clamor for out of towners to come to Vermillion to come to games? How many want Sioux Falls fans to come to games? How many of those same fans are now complaining about 1 Sioux Falls game for the betterment of the marketing of the program. That is the problem with too many Yote fans always. Show up for the good of the program and for the good of marketing. If you are a fan that will only go to home games in Vermilion than I would ask yourself just how good of a fan you are? Gets your butts in the car and come to Sioux Falls. If you aren't gonna do this than can we truley expect many Coyote fans to show up at the Summit Tourney next year. If you want to have all the games in town than be a fan of Wayne State or Mount Marty. This is about your University of South Dakota, act like it. This is D1 so it's time to leave the D2 mentality at the door. USD needs to reach out and that is exactly the message this sends by having a game in Sioux Falls. Lets think long term and not just for next year. Fans that don't show up are only hurting USD and adding to the notion of USD being small time athletics whether it's D1 status of not. Think of this. Maybe Sanford or another donor wants this game in Sioux Falls in exchange for some assistance down the road with a new arena for USD. I would definately take the trade-off if that is the case. Call it the Sanford bowl or whatever it's name will be. Athletics is about money and it's that money that will only go to help the athletic program succeed in the future.
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Post by #1CoyoteFan (Admin) on Apr 16, 2012 1:36:40 GMT -6
Are you kidding me Coyote Fan? The shoe on the other foot? Last time I checked the University of South Dakota is in Vermillion South Dakota, not Sioux Falls South Dakota. I would like to know how many football and basketball games you went to last year? Maybe SDSU did move a baseball game to SF. Who cares! This isn't SDSU and it isn't baseball we are talking about. It is football. Like some have said, we have 5 home games, take 1 away and that leaves 4. Baseball plays many more games than football. Not even a fair comparison. Nothing kidding about my post. How many people clamor for out of towners to come to Vermillion to come to games? How many want Sioux Falls fans to come to games? How many of those same fans are now complaining about 1 Sioux Falls game for the betterment of the marketing of the program. That is the problem with too many Yote fans always. Show up for the good of the program and for the good of marketing. If you are a fan that will only go to home games in Vermilion than I would ask yourself just how good of a fan you are? Gets your butts in the car and come to Sioux Falls. If you aren't gonna do this than can we truley expect many Coyote fans to show up at the Summit Tourney next year. If you want to have all the games in town than be a fan of Wayne State or Mount Marty. This is about your University of South Dakota, act like it. This is D1 so it's time to leave the D2 mentality at the door. USD needs to reach out and that is exactly the message this sends by having a game in Sioux Falls. Lets think long term and not just for next year. Fans that don't show up are only hurting USD and adding to the notion of USD being small time athletics whether it's D1 status of not. Think of this. Maybe Sanford or another donor wants this game in Sioux Falls in exchange for some assistance down the road with a new arena for USD. I would definately take the trade-off if that is the case. Call it the Sanford bowl or whatever it's name will be. Athletics is about money and it's that money that will only go to help the athletic program succeed in the future. BECAUSE IT HAS BEEN DONE BEFORE! Every time USD caters to the Sioux Falls fan base...it falls flat on this face. The only reason this game should be paid is the week of the game that Sanford announces that they are paying for a new stadium, plain or simple. This is part of the Division I move? Yeah, because Minnesota, Wisconsin, SDSU, Iowa State, Iowa, North Dakota State, UND, Montana, Montana State, UNI all play games outside of their home venue. Wait, they don't... I made reference to Arkansas playing in Little Rock, but they just moved the LSU game to Fayetteville and Little Rock fans became angry. USD stopped playing Augie on the move up and SF fans just shrugged their shoulders and didn't care there was a game anymore or else something would've been worked out a while ago. Heck, did the Sioux Falls fan base even show up with USD played Augustana in Sioux Falls? Never really seemed like Howard Wood was ever full for that game, honestly. When Arkansas plays a game in Little Rock, the stadium is packed and sold out. That justifies it. This means this game BETTER be sold out with Sioux Falls fans and there better not be 5,000 NDSU fans there to even it out. If there is, Sioux Falls, which didn't deserve the game now, should never deserve anything like this again. I clearly expect the SF fan base to not show up because history repeats itself over and over and over again.
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Post by usdfbalum on Apr 16, 2012 6:22:04 GMT -6
Completely agree, Iceman. When you're talking only 5 home games, and you move one away from your home field, that's a huge slap in the face to the football program. IMO, this move will be all about money. Some big corporation, likely Sanford, will step up to the plate, shell out thousands of dollars for this game, probably give it some fancy name, and call it good. It'll be up to USD to completely control, from what I heard. But that's enough. If I remember right, NDSU was going to be the Dakota Days homecoming game. Now what? Western Illinois? Give me a break. Not that "homecoming" should be the end-all, be-all, but it's significant when you think about alumni coming back on campus; parade; student activities, etc. With the NDSU game moving to Sioux Falls, fans in Vermillion (those who won't make the drive) won't see the Coyotes for 5 weeks. And more importantly, from the perspective of a football coach and a player, they won't play on their home field for 5 weeks. NDSU game was not planned as D Days for 2012
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Post by bisoninnwmn on Apr 16, 2012 7:23:47 GMT -6
I'm surprised at all of the negative feedback on this. USD has a sports info department...right? Market the game, advertise the heck out of it. I'm sure there are thousands of USD alums in SF, market to them. Chance to beat the defending national champions....again like last year. IMO, this has huge potential.
Vermillion to SF is what a 50-60 mile drive? That is a pretty short drive, IMO.
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Post by Yote 53 on Apr 16, 2012 7:45:48 GMT -6
All the negative feedback should tell the administration all they need to know, don't schedule a football game in Sioux Falls. As is evidenced in this thread there is tenuous support at best, major apprehension at worst. Why even propose this and alienate the core fan base not just for this game but for the rest of the season? I'm not joking when I say I'm not gettting season tix if this goes through and I know others in my circle feel the same way. If we're having these types of conversations I'm sure others are as well. I have yet to hear of a large, excited contingent of fans in SF who will make up for the losses to the core.
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Post by usdfbalum on Apr 16, 2012 7:50:15 GMT -6
After my initial emotional reaction against having the game in SF - I have changed my mind on the idea.
I always enjoy going to Vermillion and watching Coyote Games in the DakotaDome. A venue that I think will surprise the MVFC teams that travel there. Just look at how a very good UNI team struggled to put away a less talented Coyote squad two seasons ago. With continued improvement it will be even better.
I would encourage everyone to look at a few things.
The State released gate revenue at all SD Universities. Those numbers tell a much more accurate story than inflated attendance numbers. It is irritating that SD inflates their attendance numbers - one of the results are people look at the number stated and do not have an accurate picture of what is really going on. There are only 5200 seats in the main grandstand now that Coyote landing has been installed. None of the SD home football games sold all of those seats. The bleachers on the opposite side are students (at least when they are there...) - love having them there and wish they would come more consistently. From a gate revenue standpoint it does not change things.
SDSU has had in the neighborhood of 7500 to 10000 paying attendees to their football games. All tickets sold (Indiv and Corporate ticket sales minus students). USD has 3000 to 5000 paying attendees. It is not all about money at the FCS level but it does take money and support to run an athletic department - to fully fund competitive teams it takes even more. I assume the people on this board are doing what they can (so often on these boards we preach to the choir)
The game in SF is not "catering to " or "a gift to" Sioux Falls. If the University commits to doing this event right - I think it will be worth it.
If NDSU brought 3500 paying customers @ an avg of $20 per head (adults will be at 25 and kids 15 - most likely) - the revenue from them alone would equal the D Days gate. If SD can get more than the normal season ticket holders and walk-up purchasers - say a total of 4000 - the revenue jumps up even more.
Doing well and fighting hard for attention in SF is important. There are roughly 7500 SD grads in SF. There are more Howling Pack and loyal supporters in Clay County. If SD Athletics wants to have fully funded successfull programs - something needs to change.
The game is a risk - but one SD feels is worth taking. Change is always hard - but sometimes necessary. Let's make it a success. Our athletes and coaches are deserving of getting your asses in the seats if you have the time to do it. Don't allow this to be an embarrassment.
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Post by bisoninnwmn on Apr 16, 2012 8:11:45 GMT -6
All the negative feedback should tell the administration all they need to know, don't schedule a football game in Sioux Falls. As is evidenced in this thread there is tenuous support at best, major apprehension at worst. Why even propose this and alienate the core fan base not just for this game but for the rest of the season? I'm not joking when I say I'm not gettting season tix if this goes through and I know others in my circle feel the same way. If we're having these types of conversations I'm sure others are as well. I have yet to hear of a large, excited contingent of fans in SF who will make up for the losses to the core. 53, you seem like a passionate Coyote fan but this attitude about not getting season tickets if a game is played in SF is perplexing to me. Me, as a Bison season ticket holder for 9 years, would still buy season tickets if there was a game in Bismarck or even Dickinson. To me, if you are passionate for your team, you will still pay for season tickets even if the team schedules this game in SF. I just don't understand this line of thinking. I think FB fans are the same everywhere. The Bison have a very passionate fan base that would go anywhere to see them play.....this was very evident in this year's championship game. Passionate Coyote fans would go anywhere to see their team....even Rapid City. SF is not that far of a drive. IMO, if this game is promoted right, they will need to bring in extra bleachers for all of the fans. Huge potential.
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Post by GoYotes on Apr 16, 2012 8:28:47 GMT -6
I still prefer home games in the Dome, but do understand the rational for trying something different. We all complain about lack of attendance at games, especially the lack of students. With plans to renovate the Dome and expand the capacity, we need to look at ways to put more butts in the seat. (Cannot keep doing things the same way and expect different results). I am guessing the Sioux Falls Sports Authority will really step to make the Sioux Falls game a big event. If the Yotes can come into this game with W's in the 3 preceding home games and somehow sneak out a road W over Missouri State or the Grizz, could be a fantastic atmosphere in Sioux Falls.
At the same time for the remaining 4 home games in the Verm, everyone needs to step up to make each one a huge event. D-days will take care of itself, but need some special promotion for each of the remaining 3 home games.
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Post by Yote 53 on Apr 16, 2012 8:32:44 GMT -6
It's not worth it to get season tickets for only four home games. I can buy individual game tickets for cheaper.
I'm not going to travel to a "home game" in Sioux Falls. It sucks. We've done it before when the Dome roof was being redone and USD played the whole season on the road. Went to the game in Yankton against Winona St, good turnout. Went to the games at Howard Wood in Sioux Falls, crappy turnout, boring atmosphere, sucky environment, which pretty much describes every game we played in that town against Augie. Sioux Falls fans didn't show up for those games, why would they show up now?
"Doing well and fighting hard for attention in SF is important. There are roughly 7500 SD grads in SF. There are more Howling Pack and loyal supporters in Clay County. If SD Athletics wants to have fully funded successfull programs - something needs to change."
This tells you all you need to know. USD gets more support from the Vermillion/Yankton area than the much, much larger Sioux Falls area. I'd also like to see how many USD fans come up from the Dunes/Sioux City area for games and how many of those fans will now not make a trip to Sioux Falls. Alienating your core to attract potential new fans is not good strategy. yuou need the core to be on board and I don't get that feeling around town.
Finally, I'll say it again, Vermillion is a small college community that needs the economic revenue that gameday generates. Take away a game and the revenue generated by it from the people and businesses who support USD Athletics and don't be suprised if you lose support.
An old coach of mine used to say that potential is like a pile of crap. Until you split the crap atom all your left with is a pile of crap. The "potential" for this game is like a pile of crap, just don't be suprised if what you end up with in the end is a pile of crap.
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Post by jackl on Apr 16, 2012 8:42:32 GMT -6
It's not worth it to get season tickets for only four home games. I can buy individual game tickets for cheaper. I'm not going to travel to a "home game" in Sioux Falls. It sucks. We've done it before when the Dome roof was being redone and USD played the whole season on the road. Went to the game in Yankton against Winona St, good turnout. Went to the games at Howard Wood in Sioux Falls, crappy turnout, boring atmosphere, sucky environment, which pretty much describes every game we played in that town against Augie. Sioux Falls fans didn't show up for those games, why would they show up now? "Doing well and fighting hard for attention in SF is important. There are roughly 7500 SD grads in SF. There are more Howling Pack and loyal supporters in Clay County. If SD Athletics wants to have fully funded successfull programs - something needs to change." This tells you all you need to know. USD gets more support from the Vermillion/Yankton area than the much, much larger Sioux Falls area. I'd also like to see how many USD fans come up from the Dunes/Sioux City area for games and how many of those fans will now not make a trip to Sioux Falls. Alienating your core to attract potential new fans is not good strategy. yuou need the core to be on board and I don't get that feeling around town. Finally, I'll say it again, Vermillion is a small college community that needs the economic revenue that gameday generates. Take away a game and the revenue generated by it from the people and businesses who support USD Athletics and don't be suprised if you lose support. An old coach of mine used to say that potential is like a pile of crap. Until you split the crap atom all your left with is a pile of crap. The "potential" for this game is like a pile of crap, just don't be suprised if what you end up with in the end is a pile of crap. Taking revenue from your local businesses is really a huge deal,the Bison game in particular. As already stated, they travel really well,so then your local merchants are left with D-days and a couple of so-so home games. Bad deal....
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Post by usdfbalum on Apr 16, 2012 8:54:37 GMT -6
Everyone has to and will make up their own minds on this issue. It is not a move to slight Vermillion or any business in Vermillion. It would be a personal choice to take it that way, always is. It is an attempt to try something bold at the Division 1 level and generate some much needed revenue and attention. I hope the "core" fans make the trip if they can. Being in Vermillion has some advantages and some unavoidable disadvantages. The "core" fans have been great for years - unfortunately that was not financially enough for Football most of the time at the Division 2 level and I don't think will be at the FCS level. Beating UNI, NDSU, ILL St, So Ill, Youngstown St will take more. My speculation would be we all want and expect our team to beat these programs.
The SF game has potential to suck and be an embarrassment or an opportunity for the "core" fans to show the disconnected alumni that are not currently coming to Vermillion for games (we all know several) how much fun the gameday environment now is. The "core" has the opportunity to be ambassadors for what is going on down in Vermillion. Like anything, if you want it to suck though - I am sure it will. Will be interesting.
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Post by formeryote on Apr 16, 2012 9:01:44 GMT -6
There is no reason to cater to NDSU fans or to a disengaged Sioux Falls market that has shown minimal support in the past for USD. I understand “trying to do something different”. Try enhancing the game day experience and market that to the SF market to watch games in VERMILLION – That would be a change.
It’s a 50 mile drive from SF to Vermillion. Get in the car and drive to Vermillion. Support the local businesses in Vermilion. Support the Coyotes in Vermillion. Taking money out of a small college town that depends on events such as football games is frankly incomprehensible.
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Post by yoteforever on Apr 16, 2012 10:02:42 GMT -6
There is no reason to cater to NDSU fans or to a disengaged Sioux Falls market that has shown minimal support in the past for USD. I understand “trying to do something different”. Try enhancing the game day experience and market that to the SF market to watch games in VERMILLION – That would be a change. It’s a 50 mile drive from SF to Vermillion. Get in the car and drive to Vermillion. Support the local businesses in Vermilion. Support the Coyotes in Vermillion. Taking money out of a small college town that depends on events such as football games is frankly incomprehensible. I am a die hard Coyote fan, period. As everyone else on this board has expressed their feelings, I also have them. But one of my first thoughts is that at least it has excited the fan base, not only on this board, but in general. I have been on the phone with several people the past few days on this topic, and it certainly has "woke us up". I will start with my own thoughts. I am one that believes the game shouldn't be played anywhere but in Vermillion, SD. The Dome is a huge advantage to our team, and given this is our inaugural year in the MVC, we will need every advantage we can ascertain. Yote53 clearly articulates the economic costs to the business community very well, so no need to rehash that. Then there is the age old argument of why take a "home game" and play if off campus? For those of us fortunate enought to have graduated from USD, we all know what Vermillion is all about. Most of us enjoy ourselves immensely when we come back to the "U". By taking the game to SF, you can also build the argument that now students are going to be on the road and we all know what the vast majority of students do on GAMEDAY. They booze it up. So one of the first questions I ask is do we want our students on the road? Then in the exact same breath, I could argue that our student participation doesn't warrant even involving them in the decision making process. We clearly lose "home field advantage"by playing at Howard Wood. We might as well just give NDSU the win now, because in all reality, we aren't at their level yet, and for us to get a W against them, it will take an upset which we are capable of in our "HOUSE". That's the argument for keeping it in Vermillion. Then there is the debatable, and I do mean debatable argument of whether it is a financial benefit to play a game in SF. History has shown it doesn't work, but maybe with a strategic marketing plan, it could. I do give credit to the administration of thinking outside the box. Coyotefan does bring up a possible valid point. It may be tied to a Sanford donation in the upcoming capital campaign, and if so, and the donation is clearly the lead gift, then in all reality money talks. If that should be the case, I could support a one time game in SF, but no more. The other possible, and I do mean possible way I could support a game in SF was if SDSU and USD were to play a home and home game in SF. Both teams would sign a two year deal with each side forfeiting their home game and brand it something to e effect of "THE RIVALRY BOWL". You can build an argument for that game to happen in SF. Again, it does affect the business community in Vermillion that counts on university activities to make a profit. Coyotefan and Yote53 clearly are about as much together as Obama and Romney. I understand Yote53's passion for wanting to keep the game in Vermillion, as quite frankly I share that opinion. To give you some background, I drive over 2 hours each way, each game. Sioux Falls would be shorter for me, but that shouldn't enter into the decision making process. If you indeed are a COYOTE, you should be willing to drive anywhere reasonable to back them. I am fortunate in that not only do I go to all home games, I also travel with the Yotes on most away games. It is a blast. personally I have worked hard in getting the tailgate parties started and rolling the past 5 years when they didn't exist at all. College football Saturday is a GAMEDAY EXPERIENCE and not just a football game. At my tailgate I invite and host old friends, teammates, and classmates from yesteryear to hook up and socialize with. Selfishly, I would lose that with a game in SF. It won't be the same. On the other hand, the so called SF contingent that supports this game is excited. Coyotefan is a case in point. And truly I understand that. But when I read his posts, there is something that jumps out at me. He says (complains) that he has to drive to Vermillion for all games that "mean anything". I.E. he only comes if it is a big game. That's my issue with him. If indeed you are a Coyote fan, then you should do your darnedest to make every game, regardless of who the foe is. So it does appear to me that we are "cow tailing" to a contingent of fans that really doesn't give a crap. For arguments sake, let's say the game happens and it is a moderate to highly successful event. Now what? Do we move our games to SF? Do we give SF a game every year? Given the fact we are a FCS team means we probably will only play 5 games at home annually because we will be on the road for a game or two against a FBS team for much needed revenue. So if you move just 1 game a year, that is 20% of your games. Those are just nothing more than the numbers. I will close by saying this. Coyotefan, I would hope you come to all home games regardless where they are played and whom they play. I'll even extend the "olive branch" out to you, and invite you to my tailgate so we can get to know each other. Yote53, I understand passion in which you take your position. I really do. I would hope that you would consider still buying tickets and supporting USD even if they make the decision to play in SF. You're a great fan, and you feel like I do, and at is we want games to be played on university sites. But if the administration takes a position to give this thing a whirl, let's support it this time, back the Yotes, then do our best to keep ALL future games at the Dome. Let's at least do that. In my opinion we have an AD that really is trying to change this picture. The reality is that as a whole we have a sucky fanbase. Let's not give David Sayler an ultimatum yet. Let's see how it plays out. In closing, I do want to say this. At the end of the day we are all Coyotes. I don't like the idea of the game being in SF. I don't. But I will set aside personal differences to make it work if that's the decision they come up with. What matters to me is that we continuously build upon our fan base. I want USD to be successful. Let's pull together and quit threatening each other. We can get this done. Go 'Yotes
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Post by usdfbalum on Apr 16, 2012 10:02:59 GMT -6
When SD expands their DakotaDome seating to 12500 seats and needs to fill the stands (or come closer at least) - where are those people going to come from?
I really have no idea how SD can motivate alumni to get more involved. I think we all want that - it needs to happen somehow. Certainly a dismal turnout in SF for a game against NDSU will not help. If it was marketed appropriately and the "core" helped make it a success, perhaps it could help. I want Vermillion to succeed and grow - if SD could find a way to attract an additional 2,3, or 4 k to FB games in Vermillion each Saturday -that would be revenue that would make up for the missing game in SF as a minimum. Moving the game could be an investment in an eventual more successful game day environment in Vermillion the other weeks. But maybe it will just be a one year miserable failure.
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Post by Yote 53 on Apr 16, 2012 10:41:24 GMT -6
I understand everything you are saying Yoteforever. I will not go to a game in SF for the plain and simple reason that in supporting this idea (voting with my pocketbook) it will only encourage the administration to do it again, maybe even on a yearly basis. If it is a dismal failure than it will never be tried again. A one game dismal failure is something I will stomach if it means never again having a game scheduled in SF.
Second, by supporting this game you are hurting the prospect of having the Dome expanded. Why would they spend the money in expanding the Dome for big games if they could just move them to SF when increased capacity is needed?
Finally, I'll say it again, we have 5 home games next season, and most seasons in the future. I very much disagree with playing 20% of the schedule at a neutral site and the economic impact that will have on Vermillion.
I think we can agree, since we take the time to post here, we are all pretty active supporters of USD football and we only want the best for the program. What I want to see is a 15,000 seat Dome filled to the brim with students and fans. Playing in SF does not do anything to achieve that goal. I believe it, in fact, is a hinderence to achieving that goal. You want that goal achieved, it's simple, put a winner on the field. Winning sells seats, plain and simple.
We've all been to games at Howard Wood. It is not even close in comparison to the Dome for gameday atmosphere. You want to beat NDSU next season, play the game at the Dome.
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